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Need help with being a warmonger

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by OYAKATASAMA, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. OYAKATASAMA

    OYAKATASAMA Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    This is my first post on these forums and this is going to be kinda long, but I'll try to split it up as much as I can.

    I recently started playing with 22 civs on Emperor/standard speed and I am struggling to get to get a first 100 turns that I am satisfied with. I want to do some camel warmongering as Arabia while also getting my own religion. I'm also trying to break my addiction to making wonders. I especially like making the Temple of Artemis or Mausoleum of Halicarnassus(if I have 2+ stone/marble).

    Social Policies: I've tried tradition, liberty, trad+piety, and lib+piety. I've read around here that liberty is generally better for warmongering, but I always feel so weak when I take it, just because there are so few spots to settle nearby and it feels like the AI beats me to those spots even with the free settler. Piety doesn't seem to be worth it at all at the start.

    Tactics: I often somewhat near another civ's capital (10-15 tiles). Sometimes they have a really nice capital too, like a triple salt quadra deer Greece. There were 3-4 open spots that archers could hit from and it was not on a hill. Should I be beelining construction and rushing comp bows, using chariot archers(so I can upgrade them later), or just using archers so I can grab it as early as possible? Also should I refrain from taking his capital if he hasn't expanded yet to avoid the genocide penalty for wiping out a civ? I especially have difficulty with this part, because I have no clue when I should start being offensive.

    Expanding: It seems like someone gets their settler out a few turns before me and grabs a spot I want or part of the spot I want. Should I be forcing out a settler before I hit 5 pop in my cap? Or should I be making a military, razing the city, and placing my own afterwards?

    Religion: Without meeting a religious city state, I feel like it is difficult to get a pantheon in a timely manner. If I rush a shrine as soon as I finish pottery, I sometimes don't get my pantheon until the 45 faith one, which could mean that desert folklore is gone. If I put points in piety, that feels like everything is slowed down by a lot. I'm almost tempted to just play the Mongols instead just so I can cut religion out of the equation.

    Build Order: Scout -> Monument/Shrine -> Worker -> Settler/Granary -> ...
    If I don't find a culture ruin I usually finish the monument, otherwise I start working on the shrine as soon as pottery finishes. I build the Settler if I have 5 pop, otherwise I make the granary first.

    Tech: pottery -> a luxury tech(usually mining or calendar) -> animal husbandry -> writing -> philosophy -> ...
    I'm not sure if I should be going for Theology or trying to get to Petra after Oracle/NC. I'm beginning to think Petra isn't really worth it, just because it seems kind of hard in desert starts unless I have a lot of flood plains wheat and sheep to keep growth going while also getting hammers. Should I be going for Education or Chivalry first?

    Wonders: Should I ignore them? Sometimes I get some nice trees to chop because I start on grassland bordering a desert. Should I put them to use to make stonehenge/ToA/GL/Pyramids, or just chop to make a faster settler?
     
  2. Maxym

    Maxym King

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2011
    Messages:
    973
    Location:
    Canada
    You can just cut religion out if you are having hard time grabbing it, but two scouts heading in opposite directions should come up with something. Don't invest in it, if you get free pantheon and have good fpt generating one like DF, go for it otherwise just appropriate someone elses religion.

    Do you think you have a chance to cap a juicy capital with chariot archers before discovering too many civs? If so grab it asap and just play standard tradition with those cities while getting as many CAs as you can, once chivalry hits upgrade and go nuts, you might not kill all 21 civs with camels but on standard pangea it is a possibility. Education and NC after Chivalry.

    No settling, you will have plenty of caps, just raze everything and work on your happy. With the patch you might not be able to keep any friends, just ally CSs for happy. And keep pressing. If you are taking an early cap no wonders for you ;) if not maybe ToA, check if it's bonus applies to CAs (both kinds)

    CA when uber promoted obsolete only against GWI and ghost bombers until then you are laughing. 70-90 strength caps are within reach when careful.
     
  3. RedRover57

    RedRover57 Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,014
    One thing you can do if you find yourself without much space to expand and want to make sure to be able to grab the few spots that are available is to DoW your close neighbor very early and just generally harass them. Steal workers/settlers, pillage tiles, kill units, etc. This will cripple them enough to give you the time to expand while still taking Tradition. You won't get massive warmongering penalties until you start taking cities (particularly if you DoW before other civs are met), so it will allow you to get your own cities and infrastructure set up, catch up in tech (beelining to camel archers in this case) and then you can warmonger mid-game when the penalties are more manageable. Early conquest is very difficult now due to the diplomatic consequences, making early science focus then mid-to-late game warmongering more desirable (if going for domination).
     
  4. Meanness

    Meanness Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    The key with Arabia is to get camel archers ASAP. So focus your tech path and build order to do so. The turn you pop chivalry, you want to have four chariot archers ready for upgrade (with the gold to do so) and two horsemen for taking cities (that you will not upgrade.)

    This is your sole focus. Don't research or build anything that does not help you meet this goal.
     
  5. Cromagnus

    Cromagnus Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    2,272
    It's hard to stay focused on this with Arabia because they're so good at everything. It's o easy to get distracted by religion, or Petra, or Bazaars, or trade routes. All of those things will tempt you away from spending enough hammers on chariot archers and horsemen early.

    Chivalry is an easier beeline than Machinery, IMHO, because you get writing and Civil Service along the way. Of course, you have to be able to defend yourself without CBs if you skip construction. And if you put off engineering and sailing you lose two trade routes... It's a dilemma. But, it's easier to get Philosophy along the way if you need Writing anyway, and easier to get Education if you need Civil Service anyway.

    Philosophy->Civil Service->Chivalry->Education feels much faster to me than Philosophy->Construction->Machinery->Education. But maybe it's just me.

    I'm thinking about doing an Arabia Honor Diety attempt soon. I think the cheap upgrades and extra XP will make for some badass camel archers. ;-)
     

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