Never before in this game, I guess.

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Maybe Palmares can become a city state (SOuth America is very empity)

North America I feel is more empty than South America at this point, based off of the civs and city states.

 

[Xandinho]

North America I feel is more empty than South America at this point, based off of the civs and city states.

Would Mesa Verde be a good candidate for a NA city-state allowing to build adobe infrastructure?
I think that would be a pretty nice city-state.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Would Mesa Verde be a good candidate for a NA city-state allowing to build adobe infrastructure?
I think that would be a pretty nice city-state.

I think that would be a good way to get the Pueblo in the game.
Also either a Haida city-state with war canoe UU or a Tlingit city-state with totem pole UI would be nice for somewhere in the PNW. Just some more city-states obviously for tribes we won't be getting would be nice.

 

[Xandinho]

I think that would be a good way to get the Pueblo in the game.
Also either a Haida city-state with war canoe UU or a Tlingit city-state with totem pole UI would be nice for somewhere in the PNW. Just some more city-states obviously for tribes we won't be getting would be nice.

Yeah, all we have of representation of native NA today is just Cree and Cahokia, it's very frustrating. NA can get two more civs (Iroquois and Navajo, my choices) and two more city-states. I hope that Mesa Verde get into the game someday, I find them fascinating.
Teotihuacán is very late for a city-state as well. That was a trully imposing city. It's curious that they never added this.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Teotihuacán is very late for a city-state as well. That was a trully imposing city. It's curious that they never added this.

Probably because they've always put it as an Aztec city in the games.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Wouldn't Agaja be a better choice to lead Dahomey? Then again, the only portrayals of him are bloody boats, so I could understand the frustration in trying to portray him.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Wouldn't Agaja be a better choice to lead Dahomey? Then again, the only portrayals of him are bloody boats, so I could understand the frustration in trying to portray him.

That's probably the hardest thing about implementing Dahomey is that all of their prominent leaders were mostly actively involved in the slave trade. I think maybe Ashanti or Benin would be easier to implement for those reasons, and still be from the same area.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

That's probably the hardest thing about implementing Dahomey is that all of their prominent leaders were mostly actively involved in the slave trade. I think maybe Ashanti or Benin would be easier to implement for those reasons, and still be from the same area.

Genghis Khan brutally murdered 2/3 of China's population, and conquer the biggest empire until the British Empire, and massacred entire cities. If he can make it into Civ, Dahomey certainly can.

 

[Henri Christophe]

Wouldn't Agaja be a better choice to lead Dahomey? Then again, the only portrayals of him are bloody boats, so I could understand the frustration in trying to portray him.

All Dahomeyans kings have a symbol (kind of a seal) about their reign, Agadja was the one who met the european ships, that is the why his symbol.

Agadja was a good choice because he conquer other Fon cities as Alada and Ouidah and be the first unifiter of Dahomey kingdom, but was under ther reign the kingdom of Oyo enslaved Fon people. Not a true empire yet, just a united kingdom.

It was just during the reign of Ghezo and Glele (1818-1889) they start to enslave the Yoruba people, the conquest of Ketu city was the biggest conquest in transatlantic slavery. Nowadays in Brazil the biggest Afro Religion is the Ketu faith.
Since I'm Brazilian I would like to pick Ghezo, he was the first king to recognize Brazilian independence and have very close ties with Pedro II.
Also Ghezo have pictures made about him.

That's probably the hardest thing about implementing Dahomey is that all of their prominent leaders were mostly actively involved in the slave trade. I think maybe Ashanti or Benin would be easier to implement for those reasons, and still be from the same area.

That is a big problem to do Dahomey, they was in colonial times knows as the Slavery Coast, it is very hard to avoid speak about slavery with they. But, when this game will start to speak about slavery? It was a thing who made our countries as it is. Why Slavery is a so big taboo in this game?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Genghis Khan brutally murdered 2/3 of China's population, and conquer the biggest empire until the British Empire, and massacred entire cities. If he can make it into Civ, Dahomey certainly can.

I don't disagree with this statement, however the transatlantic slave trade and the impacts is still a touchy subject here in the U.S. where Firaxis is headquartered. I don't claim to know a lot of Dahomey's history but I'm not sure if there is a way to design them that could avoid that part of their history.

That is a big problem to do Dahomey, they was in colonial times knows as the Slavery Coast, it is very hard to avoid speak about slavery with they. But, when this game will start to speak about slavery? It was a thing who made our countries as it is. Why Slavery is a so big taboo in this game?

See what I say above. I mean I know America and Brazil had them but it's not like they have abilities centered around it. Of course this isn't the thread to talk about it.

 

[Henri Christophe]

I don't disagree with this statement, however the transatlantic slave trade and the impacts is still a touchy subject here in the U.S. where Firaxis is headquartered. I don't claim to know a lot of Dahomey's history but I'm not sure if there is a way to design them that could avoid that part of their history.


See what I say above. I mean I know America and Brazil had them but it's not like they have abilities centered around it. Of course this isn't the thread to talk about it.

It isn't impossible to avoid talk of slavery when make Dahomey, but, it's harsh. Their rise and fall was linked with rise and fall of atlantic slavery.
Once I give the idea to Dahomey be the only Civ able to sell population of conquered cities (as happens when they conquer Ketu), but I think most of users of this forum tought it is a taboo.

Luckly West Africa can have another civs to avoid the controversia of Slavery as Oyo and Ashante, they also had a big roll in Transatlantic slavery but they have more history than that, the poor Dahomey empire just had slavery, do a civ to they without speaking about slavery will be strange.

One option I tought to do a slavery kingdom is comming together with Haiti, the country who ends with world slavery. Haiti and Dahomey are both son of same nation but one fight against slavery and other in favor of that.

 

[Xandinho]

Probably because they've always put it as an Aztec city in the games.

It may be but perhaps not to be confused with Tenochtitlán, considering that not every civ player is a history fanatic like us.

About Dahomey, they'd be nice but maybe a little controversial. I particularly prefer Ashanti or Benin and I think either one or the other has a good chance of getting into the game on civ7.

 

[Patine]

Probably because they've always put it as an Aztec city in the games.

Despite far predating the Mexica (Aztecs) and the other eight migrant, Nahua-speaking ethnicities from Aztlan arriving in the Valley of Mexico from the north.

I think that would be a good way to get the Pueblo in the game.
Also either a Haida city-state with war canoe UU or a Tlingit city-state with totem pole UI would be nice for somewhere in the PNW. Just some more city-states obviously for tribes we won't be getting would be nice.

If one were being brutally, shameless historically honest, one could justify the Haida having a slaving capturing unit akin to the Eagle Warrior or @Henri Christophe's Bandeliera idea, actually... :S

Yeah, all we have of representation of native NA today is just Cree and Cahokia, it's very frustrating. NA can get two more civs (Iroquois and Navajo, my choices) and two more city-states. I hope that Mesa Verde get into the game someday, I find them fascinating.
Teotihuacán is very late for a city-state as well. That was a trully imposing city. It's curious that they never added this.

If it were only two more Native North American civ's, I'd rather have a Pacific Northwest one in place of one of those two, personally.

Genghis Khan brutally murdered 2/3 of China's population.

To be pedantic, that particular feat was his grandson, Kublai Khan (sometimes rendered Kublai Khagan, a superlative of Khan), though old man Genghis did have a very awe-inspiring (and very gratuitous) body count to his name, himself.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

If one were being brutally, shameless historically honest, one could justify the Haida having a slaving capturing unit akin to the Eagle Warrior or @Henri Christophe's Bandeliera idea, actually... :S

To be pedantic, that particular feat was his grandson, Kublai Khan (sometimes rendered Kublai Khagan, a superlative of Khan), though old man Genghis did have a very awe-inspiring (and very gratuitous) body count to his name, himself.

First, it's spelled Bandeirante, not Bandeliera (no bad faith intended). Second, true. However, Genghis was certainly more brutal than Kublai. Otrar, Bukhara, and Samarkand can attest to this.

 

[IsabelBraganca]

I don't think Rio Grande do Sul should become a new civilization. From South Brazil, Anita Garibaldi could be a Great General or one of the seven jesuit missions (Seven Povos das Missões) could become a religious city state. However in case Rio Grande do Sul would be a civilization, the UU could be a smaller, weaker caravel that could move through land with some restrictions.

Palmares is a better option. It lasted longer, more than a century, and runway slaves founded it.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Idi Amin... WTF?
Why not have Hitler as possible option?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Idi Amin... WTF?
Why not have Hitler as possible option?

You forgot Solano Lopez's there... Not nearly as bad, I know, but still the worst choice for a nation.

 

[Henri Christophe]

You forgot Solano Lopez's there... Not nearly as bad, I know, but still the worst choice for a nation.

The people in Paraguay still praise Solano López as a great leader.
By the way, we praise warmongers as Gengis Khan, why not praise modern warmonger as Idi Amin? He can be alternative leader of Scotland

 

[Kupe Navigator]

You forgot Solano Lopez's there... Not nearly as bad, I know, but still the worst choice for a nation.

I think Ugandan people would be INSULTED if he out of all the leaders were to become a civ leader. Forget controversy with Korea and France... THIS would be a mess!

By the way, we praise warmongers as Gengis Khan, why not praise modern warmonger as Idi Amin? He can be alternative leader of Scotland

for one thing MONGOLS THEMSELVES think highly of Gengis Khan! Heck their main international airport is Literary called Gengis Khan international Airport... not to mention they even have big ass statue of him:
Why is that? Because before Gengis Khan Mongols were nothing more than nomad people that were not unified and were destined to be forgotten like Huns and Scythia. However, After Gengis Mongols were able to get a sense of unity and one culture. DID Idi Amin do ANY OF THESE THINGS? Would Ugandan people be proud of him?

 

[Patine]

Idi Amin... WTF?
Why not have Hitler as possible option?

I had actually offered Kabaka Muteesa I as an alternate Ugandan leader (although Kabaka Suuna II and Mwanga II were quite interesting and compelling, too, and could also make good leaders - Suuna was also a bit bloodthirsty and ruthless, but he was certainly no Idi Amin Dada, and not remembered by Ugandans nearly in such a vain), but I believe these alternate choices were just ignored by @Henri Christophe, which is unfortunate, and shows a poor grasp of Ugandan history and people. Since I've known two Ugandan-Canadians, and one Rwandan-Canadian who lived as refugee in Uganda for about 30 years before immigrating to Canada, none of whom were shy about talking about the country, I feel I may have just a wee bit of a better grasp on things there (just like, having known two Zimbabwean-Canadians willing to discuss "back home," I can say for certain that having Robert Mugabe as a leader there as being a bad idea is NOT just an external stereotype - I also suggested a couple notable Shona Kings as alternatives for that slot - again, ignored by @Henri Christophe. :S ).