New 4X

[Stalker0]

Edit: Btw, for those wondering about the whole "10 crowns" thing. The game's win condition is accomplished 10 "ambitions"....so my guess is they were once called crowns...hence the original title.

So found out from the designer himself, I was wrong! The 10 crowns was because in the original design you played through 10 kings/queens and then the game ended, as opposed to the ambition system they have now. So the more you know...

 

[burleigh]

Think Gazebo’s got it spot on. If the AI is rubbish, then the game is rubbish (which is why the Community Project is so fantastic. Excellent AI, but the dev team are constantly questioning their own work, getting feedback from others & experimenting to improve it further... all unpaid while they have their real lives to live as well!).
Civ VI looked brilliant conceptually but when you play, it’s just... meh. Little soul to it.
Having said that, Humankind looks very interesting, but I’ll wait until I see the views of players I respect before shelling out
A quick shout out for Through the Ages app , an absolutely brilliant civ-type card game. It’s taken me 6 weeks to really understand it, and I still only win about one game in 3 on medium... where the AI get no bonuses at all. A real challenge, just like the Community Project, but a game takes only about 30 minutes

 

[bonniepbilly]

And now Humankind is out in open dev. Anyone trying it out?

 

[pineappledan]

I just got shadowbanned on HK's forums after calling out edgy racist malarky

At this point, I don't have much faith or interest in the direction that game is headed.

 

[CppMaster]

I just got shadowbanned on HK's forums after calling out edgy racist malarky

At this point, I don't have much faith or interest in the direction that game is headed.

Just because of that? Lol

 

[pineappledan]

yup. I accused 2 other posters on the forum of essentially being racist edgelords.
They insinuated that there doesn't need to be more non-European representation in the game because other cultures were doing things like human sacrifice. And thus they are bad cultures. And so they don't deserve it.

Ugh...

 

[Zuizgond]

I have just seen a gameplay video and it looks too much like endless legend. Never been a real fan of endless legend mostly because of the "one city per pre-defined zone" limitation.

 

[ashendashin]

yup. I accused 2 other posters on the forum of essentially being racist edgelords, because they insinuated that they don't need to have more non-European representation in the game because other cultures were doing things like human sacrifice.

Same rule here. Attack the argument, not the poster. If certain users are overtly racist to the point it's a problem, report and see if moderation deals with it. It'd be rather apparent if such behavior was a real problem, no?
That said, a shadowban is certainly not something I'm a fan of. Otherwise it's just unnecessary drama.

 

[pineappledan]

At any rate. A company that abides —and covertly protects — obvious racism on its forums is not one I care to support.

 

[CppMaster]

They insinuated that there doesn't need to be more non-European representation in the game because other cultures were doing things like human sacrifice. And thus they are bad cultures. And so they don't deserve it.

I agree with you. The more interesting, unique civs the better, no matter their morality. We already have Gengis Khan, Aztecs and nuclear bombs, so what could be worse? Maybe Hitler leader with concentration camps as unique improvements that let you burn citizens of different religion for yields would be too much.

have just seen a gameplay video and it looks too much like endless legend. Never been a real fan of endless legend mostly because of the "one city per pre-defined zone" limitation.

I've played briefly Endless Space 2, but it didn't grew on me. Maybe I should play it more to get to know it, but I'm not motivated enough to learn it. I may sound like an ass-kisser, but I think it's unlikely to find something better than civ5 with VP when it comes to 4X/Grand Strategy.

At any rate. A company that abides —and covertly protects — obvious racism on its forums is not one I care to support.

I get your point, but for me the most important is what game they will make. For example, Blizzard Entertainment made some unpopular political decisions, but still they made the greatest RTS.

 

[pineappledan]

I get your point, but for me the most important is what game they will make. For example, Blizzard Entertainment made some unpopular political decisions, but still they made the greatest RTS.

i deleted battle.net over the Hong Kong / blitzchung controversy, so at least I’m consistent I guess?

 

[theMisterRud]

I applied for Humankind's OpenDev but I'm waiting for a response. Will come back

After playing 300 hours of Endless Legend and seeing videos I can see a lot of similarities between the 2 games, though the dynamic civ building is very interesting.

As for AI/Competitiveness, my general opinion is that AI for 4X games is like 60 FPS for action games on consoles: it's a feature that doesn't move sales, but everybody loves on online forums. If you rely on it to buy the game, just wait for something like a mod or a community patch (ELCP is pretty good)

 

[Recursive]

For example, Blizzard Entertainment made some unpopular political decisions,

To me there's a distinction between unpopular political views or actions (like e.g. supporting a charity that does something I don't agree with) or hostility to modders (*cough* Firaxis release your DLL already *cough*) and actively causing harm - Blizzard refused to share data on the spread of disease with the CDC (which could have aided in preventing COVID-19 deaths) and supported the repression of Hong Kong by China.

Sure, game quality is a different thing entirely, but at a certain point I can't support a company that actively causes harm to people.

Just my own views - no judgement.

 

[Zanteogo]

I both love and dislike Amplitude games. They add such interesting and unique concepts into their games. In most of their 4X games each empire is so different and so unique it's almost like playing a different game each time you pick a different empire.

The problem is they like to keep adding new stuff (usually for free, which is nice), but don't bother to go back and fine tune and balance the old stuff. It's like they get bored and need something new a flashy to add.

Didn't like how they removed the small amount of human input that Endless Space 1 had for combat for Endless Space 2. The card system in EP1 made you feel like a commander. No direct control, just over arching orders. You could adjust tactics and see the results.

Like G said, AI is horrible in all their games sadly.

 

[Zanteogo]

To me there's a distinction between unpopular political views or actions (like e.g. supporting a charity that does something I don't agree with) or hostility to modders (*cough* Firaxis release your DLL already *cough*) and actively causing harm - Blizzard refused to share data on the spread of disease with the CDC (which could have aided in preventing COVID-19 deaths) and supported the repression of Hong Kong by China.

Sure, game quality is a different thing entirely, but at a certain point I can't support a company that actively causes harm to people.

Just my own views - no judgement.

I find the whole kissing up to China that the big corps do so unethical, but no one in the mainstream will call them out on it so it keeps happening. Other than South Park. Man that episode was great.

 

[CppMaster]

To me there's a distinction between unpopular political views or actions (like e.g. supporting a charity that does something I don't agree with) or hostility to modders (*cough* Firaxis release your DLL already *cough*) and actively causing harm - Blizzard refused to share data on the spread of disease with the CDC (which could have aided in preventing COVID-19 deaths) and supported the repression of Hong Kong by China.

Sure, game quality is a different thing entirely, but at a certain point I can't support a company that actively causes harm to people.

Just my own views - no judgement.

Ouch! I didn't know about this COVID-19 case.
I also don't support them by buying their products, because I've bought everything I need years ago. I still play though, because there is no good enough alternative. Also by boycotting Blizzard via not playing/watching, we would also harm pro-players, casters and streamers that have nothing to do with Blizzard's actions and I have much respect for them.

 

[Recursive]

I find the whole kissing up to China that the big corps do so unethical, but no one in the mainstream will call them out on it so it keeps happening. Other than South Park. Man that episode was great.

I know right?

 

[InkAxis]

I saw in one of the interviews with a humankind dev they said they were going to have mod support including changing the AI. Of course that's just their word, but it does make me excited that there will be good mod support. It's also a civ competitor so it might encourage Fraxis to release their DLL/ better mod support. (Though I believe they said they "have no plans" to ever release the DLL)

 

[tu_79]

To me there's a distinction between unpopular political views or actions (like e.g. supporting a charity that does something I don't agree with) or hostility to modders (*cough* Firaxis release your DLL already *cough*) and actively causing harm - Blizzard refused to share data on the spread of disease with the CDC (which could have aided in preventing COVID-19 deaths) and supported the repression of Hong Kong by China.

Sure, game quality is a different thing entirely, but at a certain point I can't support a company that actively causes harm to people.

Just my own views - no judgement.

I've always been an advocate of judging the quality of a sing star by the quality of their songs, not their political views. Both things are compatible. Critic their political views and praise their singing.
A game developer is not different. They can make great games and be awful persons I wouldn't like to meet. For a very near example, Civ V is a game of More, More, More, precisely when I'm concerned about reaching the limits of growth and I am pretty sure this game is spreading the wrong message, but it is a fine game nonetheless. You just need to be able to discern what is a game and what is reality.
Even if the game developer were to be a criminal, I would still buy the game as long as he pays for his crimes.

 

[glider1]

Yes Civ5 is a game about more,more,more and me,me,me. I always hoped for a Rise and Fall type 4x game where collapse is just as prominent as growth but it never happened because we are in the minority. Problem is there are very few gamers like tu_79 out there that can make the distinction between the message and the art and keep the concepts separated. Most games today just like in cinema are propaganda devices because most players are too ignorant to make the distinction.