New and revised religious choices

[andersw]

Indulgences: +1 Faith/10g, faith spend > 10% gold/prod
I think its that the hammers from this are flat hammers which get affected by various modifiers for example expertise (+15% prod buildings).
I bought with faith equal to a public school hammer cost (think it was 1200 hammers ie 12 000 faith) but got twice the hammers, not 100% sure all calculations are correct here.
Anyway with the huge faith pump Aztec, god of war, hero worship and teocallis faith buy was very op once the ball was rolling, end game (late industrial) I purchased a great writer for 32000 > 3200 hammers.
Not only does the huge amount of faith allow almost free wonder spam the crazy amount of gold (note Aztec also get gold/kill) also make city production skyrocket from purchases.
Having to constantly buy inquisitors to keep indias religion in check was tedious but doable and purchase of the inquisitors of course also yields hammers+gold.
I also helped some cs faith buying ranged units which is faith > hammer+gold+cs influence.

Without doing any maths my gut feeling is that despite +1 Faith/10g is rather useless Indulgences was far better than Gurukulam because hammers make things snowball (I did have a more extreme faith pump in this game).

 

[Stalker0]

Indulgences: +1 Faith/10g, faith spend > 10% gold/prod
I think its that the hammers from this are flat hammers which get affected by various modifiers for example expertise (+15% prod buildings).
I bought with faith equal to a public school hammer cost (think it was 1200 hammers ie 12 000 faith) but got twice the hammers, not 100% sure all calculations are correct here.
Anyway with the huge faith pump Aztec, god of war, hero worship and teocallis faith buy was very op once the ball was rolling, end game (late industrial) I purchased a great writer for 32000 > 3200 hammers.
Not only does the huge amount of faith allow almost free wonder spam the crazy amount of gold (note Aztec also get gold/kill) also make city production skyrocket from purchases.
Having to constantly buy inquisitors to keep indias religion in check was tedious but doable and purchase of the inquisitors of course also yields hammers+gold.
I also helped some cs faith buying ranged units which is faith > hammer+gold+cs influence.

Without doing any maths my gut feeling is that despite +1 Faith/10g is rather useless Indulgences was far better than Gurukulam because hammers make things snowball (I did have a more extreme faith pump in this game).

What game speed settings are you on? 32k faith buys is…impressive

 

[andersw]

What game speed settings are you on? 32k faith buys is…impressive

Epic, emperor. 32k in industrial era is not hard with this setup (and easier as aztec).
If you can afford skipping crusader spirit/defender of the faith then divine teachings/faith of the masses is also a nice faith dump (esp fom because of the extra happiness).
I've tested with or without single dip into fealty but I dont think its worth it, rationalism is too good (opener is usually more science than monastaries and you dont really need the rebate since its only for buildings).
Ofc if you play on immortal/diety the AI throws even more units at you so in the best scenario you will have even better yields but keeping units alive and getting the correct op religious combos becomes harder, unless if go Byzantium.
For enhancer its a choice between zelotry (if you want another faith dump and a quick emergency army) or syncretism (top pick if India is in the game).

 

[andersw]

@Stalker0 I noticed there is also the feature (intended or not?) that you can with faith of the masses continuously sell the amphitheatre for gold and re purchase it for faith, this is particularly good as a double dip converter before industrial when you can purchase great people.

 

[Stalker0]

Epic, emperor. 32k in industrial era is not hard with this setup (and easier as aztec).

Ok, on epic speed I completely believe 32k spends, makes total sense to me.

 

[Stalker0]

@Stalker0 I noticed there is also the feature (intended or not?) that you can with faith of the masses continuously sell the amphitheatre for gold and re purchase it for faith, this is particularly good as a double dip converter before industrial when you can purchase great people.

hmm interesting. I am 100% confident that is not the intention. Is it really broken though? What are the numbers, how much faith is it (lets assume fealty for maximum value) and how gold do you gain?

 

[AndreyK]

In Industrial I can sell amphitheater for 69 gold and by it for 450 faith.

 

[AndreyK]

I can sell museum for 375 gold and by it for 900 faith

 

[azum4roll]

Not worth at all. You get more from buying Great People.

 

[Stalker0]

Not worth at all. You get more from buying Great People.

I agree, that tradeoff doesn't sound close to worth it.

 

[andersw]

hmm interesting. I am 100% confident that is not the intention. Is it really broken though? What are the numbers, how much faith is it (lets assume fealty for maximum value) and how gold do you gain?

It is a window between reforming and industrial as buying great people is more valuable when that is online.
On epic amphi sells for 70 gold, purchase costs 300 faith (which is irrelevant because this is overflow faith that you dont really need), this converts > 30 gold+30prod when purchased.
So 100gold+30hammers.
There is a cooldown for sell, you cant sell a purchased building immediately so the hammers gets spread out.
But if you gain 1500 hammers (a city capture and some kills or a lot of kills) you can do this in 5 cities the same round and get 500 gold.
Not a crazy amount but the extra hammers are nice for auxillary cities and gold is always welcome, far better than getting a great prophet (with zero hammers/gold) which also scales up the cost of other great prophets.
Is it worth doing later on and with later buildings? I doubt it since you want to spend the faith on great persons instead (mainly writers and scientists) but ok possibly during treasure fleet or similar.

 

[andersw]

Divine teachings isnt as good because you need the happiness as warmonger but sometimes top choice is not always available.
Here is a good situation, Im 10-15 turns to rifling, hoarding in the faith but low on gold because all upkeep (and banks not avail yet also not in GA).
So I burned through 5x670 faith >

Spoiler :

Another option is to faith buy units and give to nearby cs, this can backfire if they get couped.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah so based on those numbers I think its fine. If a person would rather do that to get some yields earlier at the cost of more GP later, that seems a fine tradeoff to me. Aka its more a strategic decision and not an "exploit" giving you piles of yields above what you are supposed to have