New Beta Version - March 12th (3/12)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

Update: posted a hotfix @ 12:15pm EST for CP and CBP. Savegame compatible. Auto-installer updated too.

New beta version inbound, based on feedback and bug reports since last Monday. I'm much happier with this balance arrangement, as I feel that it balances between the more 'standard' science yield per turn elements that people wanted, while also providing some diversity in terms of yield sources.

Religion Structure Overhaul:

Worked on religious logic a bit more, see chart below.

Religious categories/tiers.

Global Bonuses (Official Religion), in order of possibility

• Founded, controlling holy city
• No found, controlling holy city
• No found, controlling multiple holy cities, see point below
• Biggest # of followers in empire determines (tie breaker goes to enhanced/reformed religion)

City Bonuses in order of priority

1. Founded/controlled holy city religion bonues
2. and/or city following religion bonuses

Diplomacy Elements in order of priority

1. Founder/controller differences (official religion)
2. Majority religion in all cities (majority religion)

Simple, effective, and easy to understand. Updates in UI clearly and easily (and there are notifications when majority/official religion changes, as well as holy city loss/capture).

Example: Now, you can found a religion, lose the city, found another religion, regain the first city, if bigger than the second one you founded it'll become your offcial religion again, etc. Hilarious religious hijinks. If you have two holy cities, and lose one, the remaining one will become your official faith (everyone needs a backup holy city, that's what I'm saying).

City-States:

• Added a countdown timer (10 turns on standard) for you to recover your military power before a CS revokes your Pledge to Protect. Should give you enough time to recover, and guarantees no sudden PtP changes if military power quickly shifts in the world. Timer is updated every turn via a notification (so you know how much time you have left).

QoL:

• Created a unified table and function for instant yields, with proper combined popups and city notifications to clearly indicate what has happened, why, and by how much. Also much easier for me to manage scaling AND, critically, all instant yield tables apply through a city (instead of going into the warp). Defaults to capital if no specific city is called. Also also, all instant yields are now available for all yield types (except JFD's, until he tells me if he wants them to do anything).
  
• Balance-wise, this moves all player-wide instant yields into a city, usually your capital (since I already did this for beliefs, this mainly affects policies and some global buildings)

Bugfixes:

• Fixed diplo penalty/bonus from policies to look at open branches, not policies themselves (UI-friendly, and easier to control)
• Fixed issue with auto-exploration breaking
• Fixed lua issues with religion chooser popup and civ select screen tooltip (modpack issues)
• Fixed some other religion oddities related to capture->founder->enhancer stuff (see above)
• Adjusted AI specialist proclivity at default setting a little bit, as well as for larger cities (should use a few more specialists in larger cities)
• Fixed colonist not gaining bonus buildings or abilities
• Moved the last vestiges of CBP 'gameplay' out of the CP (Forbidden Palace changes, mapsize changes, etc.) - major CP gameplay changes now limited to warscore system and advanced bugfixes
• Removed '10 hp garrisons no longer count' element from garrison system, and ilteroi fixed AI logic for garrisons (so garrisons can die again from attacks)
• Incorporated VMC fix for integer overflow for XP issue (more permanent solution)
• Fixed some incorrect UA text for Songhai, Inca, and Iroquois regarding their abilities, as well as a bunch of other incorrect text/sql/lua elements
• Fixed a few more quirks with enhancer beliefs (some are holy city only, others local - needed a granular approach) - updated text for enhancers to match
  
  Note - would a user be so kind as to check the text of CBP's beliefs (where they use the same functionality as base-game beliefs) and help me clarify base-game text so that it makes sense with the new standardized rules? Thanks!​
• Made some more adjustments to belief logic for cities - assistance in checking pantheon/reformation status for following belief elements appreciated:
  
  Yield from proposal/host (reformation) - should only affect holy city
  Yield from science per turn/gold per turn/num luxuries owned (pantheons) - should only affect capital
  Yields from x foreign followers/ x followers (enhancers) - should only affect holy city
  Yields from x known pantheons (pantheon) - should only affect capital
  Yields from gold per following city/gold per x followers (enhancer) - should only affect holy city
  Faith from GP use (enhancer) - should only affect holy city​
• If you see any instant yields not performing correctly, please let me know! Some of you are already doing this, which is very helpful.

General:

• World setting for min distance for cities now 3 for majors, 2 for minors for all mapsizes by default (ultimately this boils down to user preference, and I'd rather this remain standard for all players except those who explicitly wish to change it in the CBP/CP)
• National Wonders now scale their population requirement based on the number of cities you own. This should make them a little less wide-friendly, thus benefitting more compact empires (10% more pop needed per city founded - uses same mod as production cost % bump)
• Adjusted base population requirement for national wonders down slightly (compensate for change above), and reduced production cost mod from # of cities (was 15%, now 10%)
• Defensive Pacts are now only annulled when you attack major civs (attacking a minor does not break DPs) - this is mainly for AI shenanigans
• Reduced resource monopoly yield on Amber to 2 science (was 3)
• Scout XP cap from exploration now 100 (was 45)
• Brought Culture/Science % increase from # of cities up to 10% on standard size, scales +/- 2% at sizes above/below (was 6%)
• Reorganized opening ancient techs a bit (thanks Tomice!) - brings military techs into cohesion along the bottom side
• Adjusted tech costs to compensate for changes below

GPs:

• Lowered instant pop value of Great Scientist and Great Writer slightly
• Lowered base value of great engineer, but increased scaling into late game quite a bit (should be a little more viable as an either/or option in the late game)
• Lowered base value of golden age duration for great artist, but made it scale based on trait/global GA modifiers (makes % boosts to GA duration more important for GA viability)

Policies:

• Imperium (Authority): now grants 25 science and culture from settling/conquering cities (was 50GAP/Culture) - should help with early science for authority players
• Court Astrologer (Tradition) now +3 science (was +2) - should help compete with progress a bit

Pantheons:

• God of the Sea now also +1 Production from Fishing Boats and Atolls
• God of Craftsmen now +1 Faith/Gold from Quarry and from Stone Works, +2 Production from Specialist
• God of All Creation now +1 Culture/Golden Age Points/Happiness per founded Pantheon, and +3 Faith in Capital

Building Changes:

• 25% religious pressure on Temple and Basilica
• Basilica: now 1 faith per 2 citizens
• Increase faith yield on Shrine and Temple by 1
• Shrine maintenance free
• Restored merchant to market/bazaar
• Increased base science on Palace to 6 (was 3)
• Granary regains +1 Food
• Granary/Ger: 15% of food carries over when city grows
• Aqueduct/Grocer: now 15% (each) carryover
• Medical Lab: now 30% carryover
• Forge/Siege Workshop: now +1 Science, Forge/Siege Workshop regain +1 production on mines
• Council: removed instant yield, added 5 science per birth in city (scaling)
• Bazaar: gains Customs House ability (trade routes generate tourism with major civs)
• National Epic: +50 Golden Age Points every time you unlock a policy
• School of Philosophy: removed science per pop - added 20% science during golden ages and an additional Great Scientist point (so 2), base science now +5
• Bank: removed 1 per 5 gold, added: 15% of gold cost of units/buildings converted into science when you invest/purchase in this city
• Stock Exchange: now 1 gold per 5 citizens (was 1 per 4)
• Barracks/Ikanda/Armory: now have +2 Science
• Military Academy: +1 Science, Receives a Scientist specialist
• Wat science from temples/shrines reduced to +2
• Removed science per yield from all buildings, re-added to a few UBs below...
• Hanse: 10% of gold converted into science
• Coffee House: 10% of culture converted into science (removed 25 scaling gold from GP expend)
• Candi: 20% of faith converted to science (Removed +2 faith per religion)

Units:

• Hand-Axe upgrades into crossbowman
• Barbarian Galley won't spawn until majority of civs have fishing unlocked (you're welcome)

------------------

C4DF:

General

• Updated civilopedia with new text for Vassalage
• New notification: Vassal is ready to be liberated.
• Moved .dds files for C4DF into C4DF - CP and C4DF - CBP folders, outside of the compatibility files.

Bug Fixes

• C4DF - CBP: Palace now has "VassalLevyEra" so masters should receive their era levies
• C4DF - CBP: Removed non-English texts (out of date, and were not removed in the last update)
• EUI: Vassal Overview should now correctly update on "Espionage dirty" (which also triggers when you change taxes)
• EUI: Fixed issue where old DiscussionDialog logic was not changed to the new (bug-free) logic
• EUI: Fixed bad tooltip display for Liberation trade option for CPU
• C4DF - CP: Fixed issue where Vassalage civilopedia entries didn't appear correctly.
• Fixed erroneous tooltip in Vassal Overview which stated that capitulated vassals count toward a Domination victory - this is a planned feature, but not an addition yet, so it should not display this.
• C4DF - CBP: Fixed major issue where capitulated vassals did not actually capitulated - this is a result of Peace Treaty deals not being counted with the correct Peace Treaty Type in DealClasses.cpp

New version is not savegame compatible with saves from previous versions. Should be online around 1:45am EST.

This version will remain in beta for a few days until we make sure the changes are functioning (and any balancing is working okay), at which point it will become the new official version.

Beta Downloads Folder

Cheers,
Gazebo

 

[Aristos]

Nice lookin'...

So, MCR went back to 3 everywhere? And 2 for CS? (was it 2 for CS before, and in vanilla, or should we expect CS hugging each other at a range of 2 now...?)

 

[Aristos]

See some inconsistencies below (as compared to your changelog and even to the comments in file):

-- This file changes the minimum city distance for major and minor civs depending on mapsize. Change these values as desired.

-- DUEL - 3 Minimum for both

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_DUEL';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_DUEL';

-- Tiny - 3 Minimum for Major, 2 for Minor

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_TINY';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_TINY';

-- Small - 3 Minimum for Major, 2 for Minor

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_SMALL';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '2'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_SMALL';

-- Standard - 3 Minimum for Major, 3 for Minor

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_STANDARD';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_STANDARD';

-- Large - 4 Minimum for Major, 3 for Minor

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_LARGE';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_LARGE';

-- Huge - 4 Minimum for Major, 3 for Minor

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_HUGE';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_HUGE';

-- Default value that the values above can never exceed (minimally)

-- Min City Range
UPDATE Defines
SET Value = '3'
WHERE Name = 'MIN_CITY_RANGE';

 

[Tarzan737]

is CTD solved in this beta? (could you find something?)

 

[Gazebo]

See some inconsistencies below (as compared to your changelog and even to the comments in file):

-- This file changes the minimum city distance for major and minor civs depending on mapsize. Change these values as desired.

-- DUEL - 3 Minimum for both

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_DUEL';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_DUEL';

-- Tiny - 3 Minimum for Major, 2 for Minor

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_TINY';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_TINY';

-- Small - 3 Minimum for Major, 2 for Minor

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_SMALL';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '2'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_SMALL';

-- Standard - 3 Minimum for Major, 3 for Minor

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_STANDARD';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_STANDARD';

-- Large - 4 Minimum for Major, 3 for Minor

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_LARGE';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_LARGE';

-- Huge - 4 Minimum for Major, 3 for Minor

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCities = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_HUGE';

UPDATE Worlds
SET MinDistanceCityStates = '3'
WHERE Type = 'WORLDSIZE_HUGE';

-- Default value that the values above can never exceed (minimally)

-- Min City Range
UPDATE Defines
SET Value = '3'
WHERE Name = 'MIN_CITY_RANGE';

You'll notice there are two of those files, one in CP, one in CBP. CBP overwrites CP, CP has vanilla rules. Small has a typo, only because I was testing small as a final step !

Ignore in line comments, I don't usually update those for betas.

G

 

[Edaka]

Great work as always! One question:

Brought Culture/Science % increase from # of cities up to 10% on standard size, scales +/- 2% at sizes above/below (was 6%)

Am I reading this wrong or does this actually mean that expanding on larger maps is more penalizing? Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Edit: I take it back. Just checked the files - all's right. Larger maps increase costs by a lesser extent.

 

[Aristos]

You'll notice there are two of those files, one in CP, one in CBP. CBP overwrites CP, CP has vanilla rules. Small has a typo, only because I was testing small as a final step !

Ignore in line comments, I don't usually update those for betas.

G

OK, but I am still a little confused. What does it mean MCR 2 between minors? And how does it relate to the last line of the files, where MCR is generally set to 3 using the Defines value?

 

[notque]

Many fixes I was looking forward to. Thank you. Starting a game.

 

[XplosiveLun]

Sainthood (Religion enhancer) generates faith when great person is expanded. In my game, it generates faith to EACH owned city, is it intended?

 

[Funak]

Just a few quick things...

Candi: 20% of faith converted to science (Removed +2 faith per religion)

Why? This seems like a really unfair nerf to a building that wasn't very fantastic in the first place.

Barbarian Galley won't spawn until majority of civs have fishing unlocked (you're welcome)

Why fishing? You still don't have anything to counter them with at fishing, and some AI is going to go for fishing first in every game anyways, this isn't going to help.

 

[notque]

Settler location spots are coming up in the fog of war.

Engineer improvements still feel too weak

Otherwise having a very enjoyable game so far.

 

[Tubbilicious]

Why fishing? You still don't have anything to counter them with at fishing, and some AI is going to go for fishing first in every game anyways, this isn't going to help.

It did in the game I just played. This change seemed to massively delay the arrival of the first naval barbarians. So much so in fact I'm almost thinking the change should be undone.

I've had another crash at more or less exactly the same point, just as we start to enter the medieval period of the game. I'm playing on YnAEMP, so I'm guessing a crash log from me won't be useful.


The moving around of the techs didn't seem to impact my game at all. The merchant on the market helped my early game as well.

 

[Moi Magnus]

Seems good.
Just not convince by the council :

Council: removed instant yield, added 5 science per birth in city (scaling)

In most cases, it gives approximatively 1 science per turn, and having 5 science every 5 turns is not more complex and not more intersting than 1 science per turn.
Main excpetion are :
+ New cities in advanced eras (but it will still be irrelevant)
+ If your trying to build a wonder (so if you fail, not only you have lost production and grows, but you also have lost science).
+ When your building colon.

If you really want to give an instant sience bonus, maybe a bonus such as "X science when building a worker" (and / or a colon) would be more intersting (where X is big enought to be intersting).

Another idea would be science when adopting a social policy.
Remark : I still don't like instant bonus on things that are not a real choice, like tech / social policies / birth / ... , but I think than bonus on social policies would be more intersting than bonus on birth, because you can put a bonu greater than "5".

 

[PerryCaravello]

Just founded capital as Carthage and I did not receive bonus gold

Edit: I did get it from my second city though

 

[tu_79]

Seems good.
Just not convince by the council :

In most cases, it gives approximatively 1 science per turn, and having 5 science every 5 turns is not more complex and not more intersting than 1 science per turn.
Main excpetion are :
+ New cities in advanced eras (but it will still be irrelevant)
+ If your trying to build a wonder (so if you fail, not only you have lost production and grows, but you also have lost science).
+ When your building colon.

If you really want to give an instant sience bonus, maybe a bonus such as "X science when building a worker" (and / or a colon) would be more intersting (where X is big enought to be intersting).

Another idea would be science when adopting a social policy.
Remark : I still don't like instant bonus on things that are not a real choice, like tech / social policies / birth / ... , but I think than bonus on social policies would be more intersting than bonus on birth, because you can put a bonu greater than "5".

Have to test it. If it scales in time, then it's just giving science for growth, so it's rewarding to work on food and food buildings. Like the Granary did last release. Many people agree that early teching was food driven, while others think trade was more important. In any case, by Industrial age, teching was happening thanks to workforce and money investment (represented by those expensive science buildings you cared to build). Nowadays, money is what pushes innovation (represented more or less by research agreements).

The difference if it was a fixed bonus (flat or linked to size pop) is that it could, then, be affected by buildings that increase a percentage of city science yield, and could scale exponentially by late game.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I keep getting crashes to desktop. Seems to be possibly related to City overview as I crashed when hovering on Technochitilan. I played with Unit Path Viewer, Quick Turns, Music Changer and JFD's Cultural Diversity.

Happy to provide anything given you ask me what Ineed to give

 

[Gazebo]

I keep getting crashes to desktop. Seems to be possibly related to City overview as I crashed when hovering on Technochitilan. I played with Unit Path Viewer, Quick Turns, Music Changer and JFD's Cultural Diversity.

Happy to provide anything given you ask me what Ineed to give

Try it without those mods and/or one other mod at a time and report back. I can't debug other mods on top of these mods. It's just not feasible.

Just founded capital as Carthage and I did not receive bonus gold

Edit: I did get it from my second city though

I know why, and I'll fix for next beta.

Have to test it. If it scales in time, then it's just giving science for growth, so it's rewarding to work on food and food buildings.

Correct, and that is by design.

Settler location spots are coming up in the fog of war.

Otherwise having a very enjoyable game so far.

I don't mess with the UI in that regard. If others can report I'll make a github issue for it.

Just a few quick things...

Why? This seems like a really unfair nerf to a building that wasn't very fantastic in the first place.

Why fishing? You still don't have anything to counter them with at fishing, and some AI is going to go for fishing first in every game anyways, this isn't going to help.

Not a nerf. The building (as another user pointed out) was punishing by virtue of its minor reward (extra faith) for essentially tanking your happiness via religious unhappiness. Now you get extra science from building up a strong religion. This is a buff.

Pushing it to fishing means that 1/2 or 2/3 of civs have to at least researched fishing by that time. Only then can barbs even spawn galleys, and hopefully that means that at least 1/4 of the players have sailing by that time. It's the correct placement, if not too lenient.

Sainthood (Religion enhancer) generates faith when great person is expanded. In my game, it generates faith to EACH owned city, is it intended?

I've fixed, it was an issue with enhancers being a mix of 'holy city' and 'local city' bonuses (which is odd, design-wise, but oh well).

OK, but I am still a little confused. What does it mean MCR 2 between minors? And how does it relate to the last line of the files, where MCR is generally set to 3 using the Defines value?

The defines value is the last-ditch default in case someone decides to delete things. MCR between minors is minor on minor settling distance (so minors can clump a bit if need be - this helps tight maps with lots of CSs in one spot).

G

 

[Funak]

Not a nerf. The building (as another user pointed out) was punishing by virtue of its minor reward (extra faith) for essentially tanking your happiness via religious unhappiness. Now you get extra science from building up a strong religion. This is a buff.

20% of faith generation as science is nothing. It's going to provide you at most 2 science per city, while the old UB provided you with at the very least 2 faith per city, more realistically it was 6 faith per city.

Faith a a lot rarer of a yield, and the building unlocks around the time science starts to inflate, being those minimal yields from faith-conversion are even worse.


You're absolutely free to nerf the Candi if you want to, but please don't lie to me and call it a buff.

Pushing it to fishing means that 1/2 or 2/3 of civs have to at least researched fishing by that time. Only then can barbs even spawn galleys, and hopefully that means that at least 1/4 of the players have sailing by that time. It's the correct placement, if not too lenient.

Okay, but why does the Galley even exist in the first place? Why do barbarians get access to a ship with the same CS as the trireme before civilized nations know how to make a boat at all?

 

[Mitch.sp]

Cooperation belief is working in cities without religion, only with Pantheon.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

In the Beta folder there was a installer. is that usable for Betas? I always assumed that Betas were manual only.