New Version – 4.21.1 (May 3, 2025)

[I was NC]

Understood this is a random thought, but I want to express my deepest appreciation for all of those involved in the Community Patch / Vox Populi effort. I'm on turn 375 of my first game (Rome TSL) and having as much fun as Civ II or SMAC (yes, I'm old). Despite being at a lower difficulty level than usual, I'm actually losing in points, tech, and social policies.

The AI is just freaking devious. For example, Songhai used a Great General to take territory such that I was unable to exit the Mediterranean. Basically had no other reason. Meant I then had to take the associated city, which was a fun challenge.

Frankly, VII should have been this game with a few districts (not as many as VI). Not sure if I'll ever play it.

Just about my only critiques are:
- limit scout territory reveal experience (i.e., barbarian combat XP),
- after a while, all my cities are perpetually in WLTKD, and
- diplomatic sanctions should expire unless renewed.
Also, for the map I'm playing, the "no ancient ruin" check box doesn't work.

 

[andersw]

Understood this is a random thought, but I want to express my deepest appreciation for all of those involved in the Community Patch / Vox Populi effort. I'm on turn 375 of my first game (Rome TSL) and having as much fun as Civ II or SMAC (yes, I'm old). Despite being at a lower difficulty level than usual, I'm actually losing in points, tech, and social policies.

The AI is just freaking devious. For example, Songhai used a Great General to take territory such that I was unable to exit the Mediterranean. Basically had no other reason. Meant I then had to take the associated city, which was a fun challenge.

Frankly, VII should have been this game with a few districts (not as many as VI). Not sure if I'll ever play it.

Just about my only critiques are:
- limit scout territory reveal experience (i.e., barbarian combat XP),
- after a while, all my cities are perpetually in WLTKD, and
- diplomatic sanctions should expire unless renewed.
Also, for the map I'm playing, the "no ancient ruin" check box doesn't work.

- Limited barb exp is all neutral units, this also includes city states.
I think this is mainly to prevent exp milking on CS and barb camps.
You can enable full exp (I dont remember where) in some mod file.
Scout reveal exp does not stop so you can run and get a scout VERY experienced just from tile scouting.
- Perpetual WLTKD is common in late game or somewhat early if you play china depends a bit on how the game goes (also if indonesia is in that can complicate things).
- Diplo sanctions are harsh, need to take precautions to not end up there but sometimes you cant.
- No ancient ruins work with RAS (real advanced setup) modmod.

 

[Tekamthi]

- Limited barb exp is all neutral units, this also includes city states.
I think this is mainly to prevent exp milking on CS and barb camps.
You can enable full exp (I dont remember where) in some mod file.
Scout reveal exp does not stop so you can run and get a scout VERY experienced just from tile scouting.

i read the feedback as the opposite -- that recon xp should be limited just like barb xp. idk which was the case for sure though i think many feel that something like this should be considered. The scout gets TOO experienced, too easily... for the current tree structure anyway

 

[andersw]

i read the feedback as the opposite -- that recon xp should be limited just like barb xp. idk which was the case for sure though i think many feel that something like this should be considered. The scout gets TOO experienced, too easily... for the current tree structure anyway

Yes and no, you cant really fight with the scout so getting exp in other ways is very limited and a high exp scout .. is that a problem? The most op is when I can use them to snipe cities with.

 

[Tekamthi]

The most op is when I can use them to snipe cities with.

the healing every turn on maxed out scout makes em pretty effective in some situations -- the gameplay of the default vp super recon is just kinda whacky, they move faster than horses and can hold some plots better than regular military units... limiting the recon xp could be one solution... or redesigning the tree, or the unit's role itself... but i digress, i think its worth considering -- if done well theres potential to add depth to the exploration game

 

[I was NC]

i read the feedback as the opposite -- that recon xp should be limited just like barb xp. idk which was the case for sure though i think many feel that something like this should be considered. The scout gets TOO experienced, too easily... for the current tree structure anyway

Indeed, that's my point. In addition to the units becoming overpowered too fast, it's just unrealistic after a while: seeing new territory doesn't really make a military unit better in combat.

Not a huge deal at all, just seems like a potentially easy tweak, ideally as an option. Admittedly I do really enjoy my extensively experienced units in practice.

 

[Tekamthi]

yeah its something that has been discussed at times but never really in much detail afaik -- theres some tricky considerations involved, as the AI won't automatically know to adjust if the promo were to just fall off eventually. I've never even seen a serious proposal on this front really, beyond the very simplistic "remove all recon xp"

the general vibe is that there should be some compromise -- beyond this nothing specific. Many want to keep super recon as achievable game objective, but agree they're OP as-is.

As I get into this topic, it strikes me that not just recon xp but the whole way discovery and mapping works that is lacking on the thematic front. Maps were a major asset up until very recent eras of human history but barely an afterthought in civ 5/vp

 

[andersw]

yeah its something that has been discussed at times but never really in much detail afaik -- theres some tricky considerations involved, as the AI won't automatically know to adjust if the promo were to just fall off eventually. I've never even seen a serious proposal on this front really, beyond the very simplistic "remove all recon xp"

the general vibe is that there should be some compromise -- beyond this nothing specific. Many want to keep super recon as achievable game objective, but agree they're OP as-is.

As I get into this topic, it strikes me that not just recon xp but the whole way discovery and mapping works that is lacking on the thematic front. Maps were a major asset up until very recent eras of human history but barely an afterthought in civ 5/vp

Doesnt the caravel get recon exp in vanilla or am I out in deep water?

 

[Tekamthi]

Doesnt the caravel get recon exp in vanilla or am I out in deep water?

idk tbh maybe? its been so long i cant say... i think we'll see this proposal next congress round anyhow, to split recon xp between land and water and give recon line only the land portion... water portion maybe reassigned to some of the age of discovery boats idk

 

[I was NC]

idk tbh maybe? its been so long i cant say... i think we'll see this proposal next congress round anyhow, to split recon xp between land and water and give recon line only the land portion... water portion maybe reassigned to some of the age of discovery boats idk

I played 5 vanilla and don't recall XP for caravels (but it was a long time ago). They had an extra hex of sight, which was nice but didn't really make sense, so I'd often keep them around long after upgrades were available. One of many, many VP improvements.

Allowing scouts XP only for revealing land makes sense. Another level of cutoff could be for certain features, like mountains and rivers.

 

[andersw]

Funny, got the rare "free unit" when I met military CS but it spawned so it cant be moved until I beeline fishing.
Guess Ill take the 15 gold for selling it instead.

Spoiler :

 

[Tekamthi]

got the rare "free unit" when I met military CS

got one recently as well, rather early iirc -- whats the criteria for this?

 

[Siege Tower]

Chiming in to say I also got a free unit from meeting a military CS on my first game with this patch. I was very pleasantly surprised, as I do not recall seeing it before. Was it added recently and was it made more likely in this version, or is it just pure chance? I'm a fan of the change either way.

 

[Padre XIX]

got one recently as well, rather early iirc -- whats the criteria for this?

I think that if it is a military CS and has not been met by another major player

 

[andersw]

got one recently as well, rather early iirc -- whats the criteria for this?

Military CS, you need to be first to meet it and it needs to be the most friendly type, there are three, friendly, neutral and hostile (but its named different).
Edit: or play siam, they get friendly with all cs they meet.

 

[Tekamthi]

Military CS, you need to be first to meet it and it needs to be the most friendly type, there are three, friendly, neutral and hostile (but its named different).
Edit: or play siam, they get friendly with all cs they meet.

got it -- that explains why its hit or miss then. Seems a bit of an rng lottery but I enjoyed the freebie -- I wonder though if it might be more appropriate as a bonus for the first to pledge to protect or sumthin that requires more of a commitment from player...

like thematically did this happen in the distant past? lone cities giving up their military forces to the first strangers that show up? seems odd

 

[andersw]

got it -- that explains why its hit or miss then. Seems a bit of an rng lottery but I enjoyed the freebie -- I wonder though if it might be more appropriate as a bonus for the first to pledge to protect or sumthin that requires more of a commitment from player...

like thematically did this happen in the distant past? lone cities giving up their military forces to the first strangers that show up? seems odd

Yes CS is a big lottery.
You can also with help of that gifted unit together with your scout insta tribute so you also get some gold.

 

[axatin]

Military CS, you need to be first to meet it and it needs to be the most friendly type, there are three, friendly, neutral and hostile (but its named different).
Edit: or play siam, they get friendly with all cs they meet.

It can also be a neutral CS, then the chance of a unit gift is 10%. And 20% if it's a friendly one. I don't think playing as Siam affects CS personality types.

 

[andersw]

It can also be a neutral CS, then the chance of a unit gift is 10%. And 20% if it's a friendly one. I don't think playing as Siam affects CS personality types.

Oh didnt know it was just a chance, then I understand why its so rare.

 

[Tekamthi]

It can also be a neutral CS, then the chance of a unit gift is 10%. And 20% if it's a friendly one

I'd find this initial reward to be more thematically satisfying if it were a promo on the discovering unit, perhaps different versions per city state to add to their personality.

Unit gifts should be for more prominent things imo -- first to pledge to protect, first to improve resource, first to send envoy etc

Big freebies in the first few turns are inherently imbalanced