New Custom Mod for MOO2

[scratchthepitch]

Hey thanks for the links, I'll check them out.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Ayn experience if this works w/o problems with the fanpatch 1.40 as well (because that patch fixes some ugly bugs)? The GoG version of Moo2 is 1.40 and made compatible to modern OSs, so I guess there are quite a number of people having the same question.

 

[scratchthepitch]

Ayn experience if this works w/o problems with the fanpatch 1.40 as well (because that patch fixes some ugly bugs)? The GoG version of Moo2 is 1.40 and made compatible to modern OSs, so I guess there are quite a number of people having the same question.

My copy of Orion 2 dates from the late 90's. This mod is the patch 1.31 version using the ORION95.exe file. I'm planning to download the 1.40 patch and try the game using the ORION2.exe file and see if I can get it to work through Dos Box. I'll have do start with clean install.

 

[scratchthepitch]

I discovered the last version of the mod (version 16) had a late game glitch in it. Buried in the program was a ship special not listed in the standard game and I had included it. It turns out the special isn't supported by the program and does nothing. So I took it out and changed the tech tree around a little to reflect that special being removed. Then, while testing the new version, my computer developed hardware problems. In fixing these, my dvd drive letter got changed and made the MOO2 mod unuseable. The mod program I use that extracts material from the ORION95.exe file so it can be modded and then reapplied to the file is sensitive to dvd drive changes. This turned out to be a good thing because in order to fix the game so it would work on my system, I remodded the game with the new drive letter. That means I have 2 versions of the game mod now, one for a dvd drive with letter D and one with letter E. I'm still testing the new version (version 17 now) to see if I missed something, but should have the new files posted up in the beginning of the thread over the weekend.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Just found this thread. Sounds good. Old MoO and MoO2 player, and MoOIII player/modder.

JosEPh

 

[vmxa]

Hi JosEPH. good to see you are still active in Moo.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Hey vmxa,

Been awhile hasn't it.

@scratchthepitch,

How's version 17 coming along? Did you get your mod to work with 1.40 Fan Patch?

JosEPh

 

[scratchthepitch]

Hey JosEPh_II

Welcome to these parts of the webverse. I remember you from Pedxing's MOO3 forum several years ago. Thanks for the words about the mod. I added the new version at the end of the first post, along with some new instructions about choosing the right one for the right cd/dvd drive.

I got hit by the holidays before I could finish that test game, and wasn't able to get back to it till now. Hopefully, all should work correctly this time round. Still have not tried the 1.40 fan patch, I'm kind of burned out with the MOO series at the moment, and gaming in general, and it might be a few months before I get in the "gaming mood" again. Still interested in game talk, just don't feel like playing a game right now.

Included with the files in the latest mod download is the text file I used to mod the ORION95.exe file (ver17.txt or ver17e.txt) using the OCL modding program at the top of the first post in this thread. If you want to mod your own 1.40 game, that modding program claims it can do it in it's instructions. I've never tried modding 1.40 myself using it. You can extract the ORION95.exe file using the OCL program, then copy the changes in the text file to that text file OCL generated. It's tedious, cause I changed a lot, but it should work.

 

[PlzBreakMyUmMap]

Orion95 isn't usable on a few XP installs I've used. I use Orion2.exe

A consolidated change log with reasons and download link would be preferable if you want others to test it out for you and give feedback

 

[scratchthepitch]

Orion95 isn't usable on a few XP installs I've used. I use Orion2.exe

I've been using orion95 on xp.

A consolidated change log with reasons and download link would be preferable if you want others to test it out for you and give feedback

Can you explain "consolidated change log" and what you want on the download link?

 

[Pfeffersack]

Can you explain "consolidated change log" and what you want on the download link?

I guess he means a somehow generalized summary of what you lined out in the initial posts. You made a lot of changes and I'm convinced you put a lot of thinking and work in them, but not everyone likes reading to a lot of them to try to grasp what your bigger destination is.

Perhaps just try to sum up in the way (purely fictional examples): "Techs: Made underused trees cheaper or buffed the rewards of such techs, for example the Biology field with biological weapons or techs giving you access to Torpedo weapons" or "AI logics: Teached them to build more effective ships by teaching them some tricks like using component X only together with Y or by modifying weapon Z" Describe the goal, then give a easy to grasp and commonly known example.

However, your creation currently not based on/tested with 1.40 might be the bigger shostopper in fact - especially with the GOG version including it this is a kind of "standard" as some bugs (like double revenue from building trade goods) and crashes have been fixed.

 

[scratchthepitch]

Pfeffersack

Thanks for the response. A precise change log of the changes I made would probably take up more space than my first several long posts describing the changes made. Then the changes between each new version of the mod would probably be quite long, too. I don't really keep track of every change I make, and often things can be changed several times between versions as I work things out. I'm almost done testing a new version, when I post this up, I'll see how I can improve the intro in the first post also.

I'm still planing to try modding the GOG version of the game. Once I get a new computer (my old box is held together with chewing gum and gentle persuasion), that will be one of my first projects. The programs I use to mod the game were designed more than 10 years ago around the old disk version of the game. The one that changes the exec file may not work with the new GOG exec file. Since most of the changes I made were in the exec file using that program, I may not be able to change all that much in the GOG version if it doesn't work.

 

[Serutan]

Orion95 isn't usable on a few XP installs I've used. I use Orion2.exe

I think this is more related to graphics card than XP. On my desktop,
which has a card capable of dealing with Morrowind/Oblivion, orion95.exe is to put
it mildly unstable. But on my XP laptop with a much weaker graphics card, it
runs fine. The root cause is likely that MOO2 was built with (IIRC) Direct X 2.0 or
some such.

Mod question, if anyone knows: Is there any tool to fill empty orbits with planets,
and be able to ship colonists to them? I created a savefile program to
get rid of poor/ultra poor planets because selecting 'mineral rich' (or 'organic'
rich for that matter) did not seem to have much effect on the mix of planets your galaxy
was given. It also fills empty orbits, but any colonitsts sent to such plantets just
vanish when the arrival message comes up.

 

[scratchthepitch]

Serutan

The XP upgrades (SP1-3) may also effect whether Orion95 works?

When you talk of sending colonists to these planets, do you mean using freighters to transfer them from one planet to another in different systems? If you have regular existing planets in a system (not ones modded into the savegame file), can you transfer pop from one of them to a modded planet in that same system? What I mean is suppose you have a system with one planet and mod the savegame file so there is another planet in an empty orbit. Can you transfer pop from the existing planet to the new one? Does the game allow you to colonize it using a colony ship or base? And also, can you deposit marines on the modded planet once you have colonized it?

 

[vmxa]

Serutan, not sure I understand the question. Corion allows you to create a planet in a system from either nothing, asteroids or gas giants. It can even create a colony.

Planets will be as if they were created at map gen time. IOW you would be able to colonize them or if a planet of yours was in the system, use a colony base.

 

[Serutan]

Serutan, not sure I understand the question. Corion allows you to create a planet in a system from either nothing, asteroids or gas giants. It can even create a colony.

Planets will be as if they were created at map gen time. IOW you would be able to colonize them or if a planet of yours was in the system, use a colony base.

I'm not using Corion, I'm using something I wrote myself. But Corion sounds like it would do what I want.

@scratchthepitch - The problem is when I transfer colonists using frighters. If I transfer either to a
modded planet or an asteroid/gas giant modded into a planet,
everything is fine. And there is no issue at all with colonizing, creating a base,
or landing occupation troops. It's almost like there's another entry in the system data
that still thinks there is no planet there for purposes of freighter transfer of colonists.

 

[scratchthepitch]

It's almost like there's another entry in the system data
that still thinks there is no planet there for purposes of freighter transfer of colonists.

That's probably the case. Some things in MOO2 programing use multiple parts in the program, and wont work right if all of the bits are not changed.

 

[scratchthepitch]

Darza

Your post for reference:

First of all, as i said above - im not trying to be rude. Problem is my bad English, somehow its looks as if im rude, known for me fact, sorry in advance.
Second. You play your mod. Its ok. Bad what you didnt created a real full changelog at some easy to access place, but from post on this forums its clearly visible what this mod created without understandment of game processes. In your mod are still fighters, and tractors, for example. But how could you mod them, if you say you dont see what they are powerful? You wouldnt fix them in result, thats what why i sayd "you need to know a game before mod it". Most easy way to see how fighters are unstoppable is to play short game, same with tractors.

Downloaded your mod, looks like its even less favourable for AI than original, and full of exploits for human players.

UPD. Played it. Thats that im tried to talk about. Finished it at t93 from prewarp (huge 7 ai impossible) without any trying to optimize speed. You just fly, grab insane leaders in process, who give you insane tech (i found felina at quite late turn, and you can find her on a first planet, but all other free leaders are insane aswell, you just do not reasearch and have all the tech in result). No point of using any weapons beside fighters at all. Game is way more easy even than classic moo2. With good start speed reslt there could be really insane, as you even doesnt bother for command points (they are not exist, i had 10 battleships and positive balance). Race picks also clearly show what you need to know how they work (-BC cost cheaper than -res, and -BC is worst pick in game, and you give it to AI races). In case you really interested, i could do more detail explanation, by now this mod just show what you indeed better learn a game alittle, after you add a game knowledge to your creativity and modding skill, result can be very good.

UPD2. Oh no, i dont know how i missed it. Race what do 63 prod on first turn, you serious? To play race with 63 prod versus lame AI races killed with -bc? And find robominers with leader at planet later? Really man, join irc, there alotta people who can make you good at game really fast.

Responses:

Bad what you didnt created a real full changelog at some easy to access place, but from post on this forums its clearly visible what this mod created without understandment of game processes.

The mod is more my notes on experimenting with changing the game. I don't keep a record of everything I change since I will alter things several times experimenting with it. I'm also a lazy record keeper. In each new version I tweak things I found not working well in the last. Some versions I tested quite different concepts, found they didn't do what I intended and didn't post them up. Current version I'm playing is different from the last uploaded.

In your mod are still fighters, and tractors, for example. But how could you mod them, if you say you dont see what they are powerful?

Both are modified to a limited extent. A lot of their abilities are hardwired and I cant change those. With fighters I could change the cost and space and where they are in the tech line up. With tractor beams I'm not sure what is hardwired, since it is lumped with things like pulsar in the programing code, and therefore isn't treated as a beam. I wasn't sure how changing damage (stock is 0) or abilities (stock is none) would affect them because of that. Each of these weapons have hardwired abilities and workings that my modding tools can not change. The AI uses TB a lot, and as a result of seeing how pathetic their ships were because of that, I did increase the cost and space of TB to get the AI to use the cheaper, more effective weapons. As with all the weapon techs, and other techs, the placement of TB in the tech line up is changed.

Most easy way to see how fighters are unstoppable is to play short game, same with tractors.

You still not have explained how fighters are invulnerable or how tractor beams are useful.

grab insane leaders in process, who give you insane tech (i found felina at quite late turn, and you can find her on a first planet, but all other free leaders are insane aswell, you just do not reasearch and have all the tech in result).

"late turn - first planet", that doesn't make much sense. "free leaders", I've never found more than 1 leader per game (besides Loknar). Often, I've not been able to afford to hire leaders. In "93 turns" you will not see very many leaders show up for hire, even playing with the most charismatic of custom race. I made the leaders supply tech to balance out uncreative races and give them a chance at getting decent techs, too. I found AI uncreative races too easy to conquer and no fun to play as, because of the lack of tech choice. The way the designers set up the tech research really sucks, and I notice other similar spaces games do not use that kind of system. It's a matter of luck which leaders show up. The leaders before were mostly of not much use, in comparison to how much they cost. I figured I would make them worth using.

No point of using any weapons beside fighters at all.

That was the problem of the stock game, too, you claimed. Try using them if the only beam tech you have is lasers, like at the beginning of the game. You'll be better off using nuclear missiles.

as you even doesnt bother for command points (they are not exist, i had 10 battleships and positive balance).

If I could have taken CP out of the game altogether, I would have. I made warlord free and gave it to all the stock races because transports cost CP. The reasons why I don't like that are explained in the thread.

(-BC cost cheaper than -res, and -BC is worst pick in game, and you give it to AI races)

I agree, giving -BC to the AI was a major fail. Latest version has no AI races with -BC. The player, it's not that big of a deal to have -BC in the mod because of warlord being free. A minus production, research or food can be worse for a player at the beginning of the game, especially if they are not creative.

In case you really interested, i could do more detail explanation,

If you don't mind, and have the time, I would very much appreciate it if you could provide more detail. I don't have time to play multiplayer games to find out how the game works with human vs human games. Often lately I don't have the time to play even single player games. The mod is an experimental work in progress. I change stuff, then see what it does. Sometimes it may take several months to test game a version and often I miss things while looking at the effects on other things in the game. Like with the -BC, it was no serious problem for a player, but the AI usually could not cope. The test games I do are not run as races to see how fast I can win the game, which I personally find a total bore, but to see how things work with the AI. The goal being to make the AI "smarter", while giving the player more choices of things to do in the game. And also removing exploits without limiting a player to some boring minimal race. So far I have gotten partway there. The AI is smarter, and some things that were easy for a player in the original are tougher (like monsters), but I've not yet found a way to significantly hold back the player advantage without making the game less interesting for a player.

 

[Darza]

Well, its even more complicated then. I can talk only about mod version i downloaded here, 17, and you have a different one. But i guess some things will be the same, so i can try.

Fighters. Ofc you start with lasers (in fact you dont even need laser tech itself for them, they have it on theyr own, later you tech fusion beam and thats all, after you capture few races). To effectively use missiles you need many refinement levels BEFORE you build a ship. Fighters automatically upgrade with new beams, even if you researched them the turn of battle (even before you see what you actually invented it). You made fighters cost more, thats true, but you also changed a ship size. So you can easily build rather cheap fighters BB at t40 and later the more of them. 2 such ships ruin every starbase, and one ruin earlier ones aswell. Btw you also put insanely powerful assault shuttles as free tech, i didnt even bothered to try them, im sure they can be used even more effective than basic fighters. They are overpowered weapon too.

Leaders. In my 93 turns of prewarp game with repulsive i got 2 leaders with absolutely insane abilities, and found 3 more. I was unable to trace what tech came from what leader, but i had robos, atmos, spaceport, massdrivers, even artificial planet. And every leader had ordnance, or +30 to everything if it was planet one. Leaders was overpowered in vanilla already, with such leaders the game outcome is went is to get a right leader and won. How you suppose to win if you didnt get a leader, and other player get a leader, who give +30 to everything and also robos and atmos? And you know, by rather late i meant what i found her at t50, not t20. You can send a first scout to planet and get a leader right there.

Tractors. You build fast armored ships with 4 tractors. You take GC tech. You came to battle, immobilize a ships and raid them. No matter what defence that ship have. No ship can kill other ship with one shot at that time. But tractor ships can. You dont need to capture them, you need to raid, and raid is easy. 2 frigates can raid starbase heavily, and battleship usually blow other battleship.

You cannot make AI smarter without rewriting a code. It hopless and dumb. Right now you give to a player very imbalanced techs what cannot be used properly by AI. You also made economic stuff even more pricier than in original, but give a cheap autofactories. So there is no reason to move further, as you can just build autofactory, and pump a fighters battleships at insane speed, especially if you get some leader. The racepics is other story, maybe you changed them already, but in 17 they are really bad. There is even less reason to try non-uni than in vanilla. You did money more cheaper, and gave food, right. But you also made tolerant very cheap, and transd insanely cheap. And for uni that food mean +1.5 food at the same price. I told you about race with 63 prod at first turn, and it will get autofactories very soon also. What it will do after you add +30% leader to it? -BC is worst ever negative for human player. -prod or -res is much more easy to survive. -bc is effectively have a -prod built in, and also have additional effect.


But more important - if you mod just for mod, all this is not important. If you want to make an interesting mod its other story, and we can continue, but it will be long road im afraid. Id suggest to you to look at existing popular mods, say VDC. Its not optimal in any way, but its make much more sense by now. So you can see it and think, "why they did it that way, and im not". Sometimes you will find theyr mistakes that way, but most of time you will see your own. By now i didnt seen any removal of exploits for player, instead you made some of them more easy to do, especially at race building. Removing CP from a game - its makng a game even more blitz like. You dont need to build colonybases and colonyships VS AI in vanilla too, now you need it even less.

Monsters. I didnt really seen them (thats the problem with no access to changelog), i seen what they have a greater firepower, but same speed. If theyr hits not beefed up heavily, then you didnt made them stronger. They are killed with fregates anyway, no matter if fregate will take 1000 hit or 50 hit, it will die anyway. And it will kill only 1-3 frigates at shot still. If theyr HP beefed, than yes, you did make them stronger. Problem is what in vanilla already was more easy to kill a whole AI empire than one strong monster, so now it will be same, no need to bother with them, just grab AI, it hopless.

UPD. And yes, should be very good if you will continue (in case you will) in 1.40. 1.31 is full of bugs, crashes etc. Most annoying is credit cheat bug, so you need to always be sure to not have an empty roster on planet, or you will get money for free due to bug. Its really annoying to cheat this way if you dont want it. 1.40 get rid of them.