New Desktop

[clanky4]

I am planning on buying a "new" computer with a fairly limited budget by computer standards.

Anyway within reason I have found:

Gateway DX4840-07:
http://www.amazon.com/Gateway-DX484...ref=sr_1_5?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1426679635&sr=1-5

$368.49
Windows 7
3.2 GHz Intel Core i5
6 GB DDR3 RAM
1 TB HD
NVIDIA GeForce 315 Graphics


HP Pavilion p7-1410 Desktop
http://www.amazon.com/HP-Pavilion-p...=UTF8&qid=1426705588&sr=1-2&keywords=computer

$479.97
Windows 8
3.4 GHz Intel Core i3-2130
8GB DDR3 RAM
1.5 TB SATA HD
AMD Radeon HD 7540D

I know that neither of these are power houses. Although I don't really need a war horse anyhow. In general I was looking for something that could hopefully run a few strategy games: Victoria II, maybe Civ 5: or at the very least be better than my current computer of nearly 5 years:

Gateway E-4610
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004IV5FV6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Windows XP
2.13 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
3GB RAM
80 GB HD
Radeon X1300/X1550

Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

 

[sophie]

1) What's your budget?
2) Is building your own computer completely out of the question?

 

[Zelig]

The E-4610 is closer to 8 than 5 years old... at this point a modern tablet performs better than that.

For $500 I'd insist on:

1. SSD.
2. Windows 8.1.
3. Don't bother with discrete graphics.

I'm unable to find anything meeting those criteria.

It simply isn't worth getting anything without an SSD, you'd get better performance than any computer without an SSD by putting a modern OS and a $100 SSD in your E-4610.

 

[sophie]

3) Do you need to buy a monitor as well?

 

[clanky4]

1) My Budget is around $500
2) For the time being I'd like to avoid building a new one from scratch. Although I have replaced the HD and installed additional ram on my current computer, so I have no aversion to doing so with a new one.
3) Already have a monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers and so forth.

Does an SSD make that much of an improvement? I heard they were better but I have no experience with them myself.

 

[sophie]

Does an SSD make that much of an improvement? I heard they were better but I have no experience with them myself.

Yes it does. Upgrading from HDD to SDD is the most dramatic change you can effect on a computer from swapping out one single part.

 

[Zelig]

2) For the time being I'd like to avoid building a new one from scratch. Although I have replaced the HD and installed additional ram on my current computer, so I have no aversion to doing so with a new one.

Oh good, this gives you soooo many more options. Lemme check some specs/prices and I'll either reply to thread or edit this post.

 

[leif erikson]

Have to put up this link. Zelig posted it a while ago and I find it very helpful.

 

[Zelig]

Okay, so I figure a ~250GB SSD is probably reasonable, I prefer ~500GB, but that's generally too tight on a $500 budget unless you really need the extra space immediately.

There are several good options around this price, this one currently has a sale going, otherwise I'd get a different one for the same $80-$90 price: OCZ Arc 100 240GB: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820228116

Leaving ~$420

1. $320: http://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/us/en/pdp/desktops/hp-pavilion-mini-desktop---300-020

2. $450: http://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/us/en/pdp/desktops/hp-pavilion-mini-desktop---300-030

Option #1 and #2 are the same except for processor and HDD, #2 has a better processor and 1TB vs 500GB HDD, giving you some extra future-proofing.

Either option ships with 4GB RAM, allows for upgrade at any point in the future to 8GB (with +1 4GB stick) or 16GB (with +2 8GB sticks).

I'd probably factor in an extra $20 so you can put the old HDD in an external usb3 enclosure and use it for backups or big files that don't fit on the ssd.


Honestly, if you're willing to replace the HDD the system ships with you've really got a bunch of options, check anything on Dell/HP/Lenovo/Newegg, the HP Pavilion Mini should give you a good baseline comparison though, I haven't personally used it, but the specs are solid and it's been getting good reviews.

 

[Quintillus]

Does an SSD make that much of an improvement? I heard they were better but I have no experience with them myself.

They do make a good difference in day-to-day responsiveness. However, for a low budget computer, I don't think they're necessarily a shoe-in. They're fast, but if you're going to be spending 90% of your time playing Civ or Vicky 2, you should stick with a hard drive and put the money you might put in an SSD into improved CPU, GPU, or RAM instead. Once you're in-game, the SSD is not going to have a noticeable impact, but a CPU that gives faster AI turn times in Civ, for example, would.

The Pavilions Zelig linked to are good low-cost, surprisingly small PCs. Extrapolating a bit from wPrime benchmarks, including that of the Core 2 Duo at 2.2 GHz I have, I'd estimate the cheaper one would give about 20% better CPU performance than your current system, and the more expensive one about 50% better.

The $480 desktop you linked to, with the Core i3 2130, is a much more powerful system CPU-wise, at about 150% faster than your current system. This is in no small part due to it being a desktop part, rather than a lower-power one like in the Pavilion Minis. The graphics are Intel HD 2000, not Radeon 7540D. They're about 4 times as powerful in synthetic benchmarks as your current graphics (though being Intel graphics, I'd value them slightly less in the real world).

The $370-ish Gateway has a similarly powerful CPU. The GeForce 315M is 3-4 times as powerful as your Radeon X1550, but it's by no means going to set the world on fire. The laptop I got in 2007 has a GPU that's about as powerful as the 315M, and while it's great for Civ4 and Vicky 2, it's not going to max out Civ5 (though it probably will play).

The more expensive HP Mini has graphics that are about 50% stronger than either system you linked to (the less expensive one would be less, but I'm not sure how much and Intel's naming makes it annoying to look it up). However, as mentioned, its CPU is weaker. It kind of depends on if faster AI or better graphics is more important to you. If better graphics are more important, it probably would be a good idea to consider an AMD system, as AMD usually has better graphics for the price in the lower end of the market. If faster AI is more important, the Gateway you linked to is fairly good for the price, albeit using older technology and being used, not new. Of course, the HP Minis will use less power, and thus result in a lower electric bill, possibly allowing more upgrades later.

All said, you have options, and which is best depends on your planned usage and priorities. Arguments can be made for any of the options presented, but none can be clearly said to be best without knowing more about your goals.

Also, props to Zelig for making suggestions within budget. Usually when someone says they want to buy a computer for around $500, 75% of the suggestions are $550+.

 

[illram]

Wow I like that little PC Zelig posted. Sort of like an ultra cheap and bigger NUC, although with a spindle drive...crazy. I am not sure how the HD 4400 on the i3 variant will handle Civ V though.

You can also take a look at desktops on newegg with a recent generation i3 or higher (basically, any iX Intel that starts with a number 4 or higher, e.g. i3 4xxx, i5 4xxx, etc.). There are a few refurbished under $300 currently. Throw in a cheap SSD mentioned by Zelig, 4GB more of RAM (if needed) and, say, a 250x, and you should be good to go.

For instance this:

Haswell i3, 240GB SSD, 8GB RAM (might want to double check that the RAM plays nice with that system, but you should probably be fine), 250x which is a mid-tier/budget-ish card but will play all the games you listed perfectly fine, plus some new ones actually at mid to low settings. This is a much better deal than the second $479 system linked in the OP, at least.

 

[Zelig]

Yeah, actually if you're putting in RAM, NUCs or a Brix box might work out better than a Pavilion Mini, and then you don't get the extra spindle drive floating around your desk.

GIGABYTE GB-BXi5H-5200 (Core if-5200U, Intel HD Graphics 5500): $365
Mushkin ECO2 240GB SSD: $88
2x4GB Ram: $56

Total $509 from newegg, gets you dual channel RAM and HD 5500 graphics. Could probably get it below $500 with careful pcpartpicker use.

Integrated graphics aren't going to play well with civ5... but really, civ4 is a better game anyway.

 

[clanky4]

This is probably a dumb question but are all these additional parts going to fit in these mini computers? Additionally how difficult would it be to swap out a graphics chip?

 

[Zelig]

Yeah, typically they have room for a single 2.5" sata drive and take laptop-style memory. No graphics card updates. I'm personally not a fan of other than integrated graphics in ~$500 systems, you compromise on thermal performance, noise, size, and cpu/disk/memory performance/capacity in order to get a discrete video card at the same price. Your call on weighing how important those things are to you.

 

[illram]

This is probably a dumb question but are all these additional parts going to fit in these mini computers? Additionally how difficult would it be to swap out a graphics chip?

The mini-tower I posted is a normal sized PC that should fit whatever you want. NUC's (not the mini-PC Zelig posted) typically also take M-SATA hard drives, which are basically SSD's on a chip, like a chip of RAM.

 

[Zelig]

The mini-tower I posted is a normal sized PC that should fit whatever you want. NUC's (not the mini-PC Zelig posted) typically also take M-SATA hard drives, which are basically SSD's on a chip, like a chip of RAM.

The Brix I posted actually takes both a 2.5" drive and an mSATA drive - so you could do an mSATA SSD for speed and then 2.5" platter drive for more space - I just linked a 2.5" sata because they're cheaper than mSATA.

Real compact ones take M.2 cards instead of mSATA. For that matter, high-end desktop motherboards also take M.2 cards, since you can get pci-express M.2 SSDs which perform significantly better than the SATA interface can do.

 

[clanky4]

I went with the one suggested here. Finally got the PC and it works fine.

Unfortunately the GPU is just about an inch too long to fit in the case. The harddrive bay is right behind where the GPU is supposed to be plugged. There is enough space for the actual chip itself but not the fan that is attached to it. Which unnecessarily has a fin jutting out of it. I can fit the GPU itself in the case if I put it in at an angle but then the wiring gets in the way to where I can't plug it into the motherboard.

The ssd installed fine. Alas it is not showing up in disk management or my computer so I can't change anything about it. It shows up in the device manager though. So the PC at least acknowledges its existence.

The good news though is that the RAM installed fine

Any guidance in these matter would be appreciated.

 

[illram]

Can you post a picture of the interior of the case? Maybe you could move the hard drives somewhere else.

So I am assuming the SSD is not installed as the primary OS drive? It should show up as an additional drive like any other hard drive. Either way you'd get more usefulness out of it as the primary drive with the spindle drive as storage. You can port windows over to it with a drive cloning tool.

You could maybe just ditch the 1tb drive altogether, stick the SSD somewhere with velcro on the interior of the case, and fit the GPU in there.

Nevermind I looked at the newegg pics of the case. So there is a big metal frame running down the side, is that what is blocking the GPU? Looks like there should be plenty of room. Can you remove that frame somehow? Looks essentially useless.

 

[clanky4]

Can you post a picture of the interior of the case? Maybe you could move the hard drives somewhere else.

So I am assuming the SSD is not installed as the primary OS drive? It should show up as an additional drive like any other hard drive. Either way you'd get more usefulness out of it as the primary drive with the spindle drive as storage. You can port windows over to it with a drive cloning tool.

You could maybe just ditch the 1tb drive altogether, stick the SSD somewhere with velcro on the interior of the case, and fit the GPU in there.

Nevermind I looked at the newegg pics of the case. So there is a big metal frame running down the side, is that what is blocking the GPU? Looks like there should be plenty of room. Can you remove that frame somehow? Looks essentially useless.

The SSD is working now. I had to go into BIOs, or whatever its called now. Then I partitioned the ssd in Disk Management. I cloned the the old HDD onto it and then told BIO to boot the ssd first. I'm not sure if it is or not but it runs fine either way.

I was actually able to get the GPU in, I had to put it in at an angle and move the power wires for the fan and some chip in the motherboard out of the way first.

Unfortunately it does not appear to be working. The newly installed GPU does not show up in the Device Manager, even after using the installation disc that came with it. Upon closer inspection I also noted that the little fan on the GPU was not moving while the PC was turned on.

 

[illram]

So this might be a silly question but did you plug the power from the PSU into the six pin connector on the card? The plug on the top back corner of the card.