New Diplomacy Game: Civdip XII - Broken Resolutions

[TrailblazingScot]

Snigger, well, being Australian you are already in an open jail of sorts


Well, I've got the votes in from the different players and it is 3 to 1 in favour of option 1 - which makes Germany the winner of Civdip - Broken Resolutions!


Broken Resolutions - Result

The winner in 1st place - Germany (Keirador!)

With 14 centres and from his orders the prospect of more, a deserved winner. Forming a firm pact with France to destroy England before getting the new Tsar involved in Austria thus allowing a reployment of force towards the East secured a strong and ultimately dominant position on the board. Could/should have faced a stronger challenge - but no Alliance ever really set itself up to oppose him.


In 2nd place - France (Arminius)

With 9 centers the Frenchman always did avoid the stab I was sure would come from Germany and never did turn on Germany neither. Much to my confusion.


In 3rd place - Turkey (Sheep2)

Well, despite the recent trouble with Sheep2 getting orders in, he did a really grand job sorting out the problems Pellaken left behind. I really expected him to get cleaned up, but from the first he gave good orders and finished well on 9 centres, but comes 3rd as he was bound to lose some very shortly.


In 4th place - Italy (Stapel)

Well, he survives by a whisker, I'm sure he'll be able to tell us when things started to go wrong for him.


In 5th place - Russia (Oh Slappy)

Oh Slappy replaced Barron of Ideas after his disasterous NMR and so was in the position of taking over a rather crippled power. Rather tragically he bought into the diplomacy that came out of Berlin in staggering quantities and was thus sold into slavery. Had Barron of Ideas kept with the deadlines, it could very well be Russia that would have won this game though it would have been some clash with Germany.


6th Place - to England (Magnus)

Kept on fighting as a rogue pirate and so surived longer than the Austrians who didn't really have that option. A good fighting spirit, which we'd expect from England, just very little to be done against a solid Franco-German Alliance and a fierce contest with Russia in Scandanvia.


In 7th place - Austria (Gnarfflinger)

A very respectable performance, good diplomacy, a decent position, but then doom as the new Russian Leader took advantage of Austrian frailty given her other wars. The result was that Russia left Germany to finish off England without hassle before going in for the kill against Russia. In short, Austria was ruined by events 1000s of miles away in Moscow, which eventually rebounded upon Tsar Slappy.



I may very well give some other awards out - best diplomacy, funniest diplomacy - etc in due course, but for now feel free to gloat/put the best spin on how you think the game went. I'm just glad I don't have to sort out any more NMRs!

 

[slappy]

I think kOc makes a fair assessment of the Russian side of the story. However, I don't recall having much to gain in keeping Norway away from Germany a little longer other than earning German animosity when, in my view, I really needed to gain his trust.

The Russia I inherited was shoulder-deep in the Balkans. Turkey was attacking Russia, Italy was devouring Austria, and Germany and Russia were standing by to the north. I saw no real chance to make gains against Turkey and viewed the opening of a new front with Germany as beyond reckless, so I had to decide what to do about the Austrian situation. It seemed I could work with Germany to preserve Austria until Turkey came up behind us and finished me or Austria or both. Or I could quickly push into Austria from the position in which the Baron had left me and hope that these gains would allow me to turn the tables on Turkey. I did make significant gains as Austria fell, but the one thing I could not pick up in the aftermath was a southern ally. As a result, I was left hoping I could convince Germany to turn on France. The FG alliance was quite obvious, and expecting a German on French stab was wishful thinking, but I could not see a better option with so little opportunity to cooperate with anyone in the south. I don't blame any of my southern neighbours either. They had their plans and they were unwilling to change them just because Russia was under new management.

I had to guess about who the Baron had actually considered his main ally. He was no longer around to give me any parting words of advice. I do believe that Gnarfflinger was the one ally that the Baron had, but I also believe that Gnarfflinger was in desperate shape by the time I came onboard. This may be where kitten and I see things differently. Was it an error for me to write off Austria's chances when I did? If not, I don't see how I could have lasted as long as I did without turning on Austria first.

As with my last game completed here (D-Day), I'm always anxious for feedback from the more experienced players as to how I might do better next time.

EDIT: One last correction--Not to take anything away from Keirador, but he did not get me involved in Austria. To be accurate, as I recall, he presented Austria to me as his ally and did not act very happy when I rolled into Vienna and Budapest. I don;t know if any of that makes any difference, but it is how things happened.

 

[Arminius]

First, let me tell everyone that the Franco-German Alliance began on January 6th. Originally intended to only be a cooperation against England, the Alliance grew. I found that between myself and Keirador, we could guess what everyone would do next. The only thing that even remotely surprised me was how long barron, and then slappy, waited to remove the Austrian player. When I discover this, I decided to work towards almost exactly the outcome we had. I just hoped to be on top, with my good buddy right under me. Unfortunately, Stapel is an excellent player and diplomat, and kept me tied up for years.

I, too, am curious as to who kitten thinks was going to help the barron. I, for one, kept up relations, but had no intention of assisting a war on Germany. I would have become involved the moment Germany was doomed, much as slappy removed Gnafflinger, but no more.

I must say that I respect everyone who played this game. I think that Keirador has earned his victory, and I yearn to face him in conflict. I hope to play with all of you again sometime. Finally, I hope that everytime I face everyone of you, that you view me free of the prejudice of previous games.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

I think kOc makes a fair assessment of the Russian side of the story. However, I don't recall having much to gain in keeping Norway away from Germany a little longer other than earning German animosity when, in my view, I really needed to gain his trust.

The Russia I inherited was shoulder-deep in the Balkans. Turkey was attacking Russia, Italy was devouring Austria, and Germany and Russia were standing by to the north. I saw no real chance to make gains against Turkey and viewed the opening of a new front with Germany as beyond reckless, so I had to decide what to do about the Austrian situation. It seemed I could work with Germany to preserve Austria until Turkey came up behind us and finished me or Austria or both. Or I could quickly push into Austria from the position in which the Baron had left me and hope that these gains would allow me to turn the tables on Turkey. I did make significant gains as Austria fell, but the one thing I could not pick up in the aftermath was a southern ally. As a result, I was left hoping I could convince Germany to turn on France. The FG alliance was quite obvious, and expecting a German on French stab was wishful thinking, but I could not see a better option with so little opportunity to cooperate with anyone in the south. I don't blame any of my southern neighbours either. They had their plans and they were unwilling to change them just because Russia was under new management.

I had to guess about who the Baron had actually considered his main ally. He was no longer around to give me any parting words of advice. I do believe that Gnarfflinger was the one ally that the Baron had, but I also believe that Gnarfflinger was in desperate shape by the time I came onboard. This may be where kitten and I see things differently. Was it an error for me to write off Austria's chances when I did? If not, I don't see how I could have lasted as long as I did without turning on Austria first.

As with my last game completed here (D-Day), I'm always anxious for feedback from the more experienced players as to how I might do better next time.

EDIT: One last correction--Not to take anything away from Keirador, but he did not get me involved in Austria. To be accurate, as I recall, he presented Austria to me as his ally and did not act very happy when I rolled into Vienna and Budapest. I don;t know if any of that makes any difference, but it is how things happened.

Good comments Slappy, but I'd contest that Italy was devouring Austria. Austria had 4 centres and had just thrown the Italians out of Trieste with some help and was gaining German support.

Your attack really took Austria out of the game instead of shoring up the Russian front with Turkey or Germany. I think you needed to cooperate with England against Germany and ready yourself for war with Germany. I'd have gone further perhaps and worked out a deal with Turkey to counterbalance the Franco-German Alliance.

 

[Keirador]

My first CivDip solo victory! Thanks for a great game, players. Thank you, kOc, for an involved, dedicated, and only occasionally offensive GM.

Let me reiterate the point that the collusion between Germany and France was not the unfair result of a pre-existing relationship. I had never even read one of Arminius' posts before Diplomacy. I sent a message to Arminius as my first act of Diplomacy, advocating a joint strike on England. I had originally toyed with the idea of convoying French armies to Britain, and then stranding them there while I ravaged France proper. As the game progressed, however, it became clear that barron of ideas presented my largest and most dire threat. I became fixated on the utter destruction of Russia, and bent to my work both strategically and diplomatically.

I noticed barron courting Austria, and realized the disastrous implications of a R/A for poor Germany. I attempted to convince barron to move his armies in directions that were seemingly innocent, but would result in what amounted to a virtual deployment against Austria. Not to contradict slappy (or, more accurarely, to respectfully contradict him) but the situation he inherited was, I like to (probably wrongly) think was the result of German pushing. When barron left, it was too late for me to abandon my anti-Russian plans and turn on France. Arminius had proved an exceedingly loyal and clever ally, and besides, my armies were already in place for the Eastern campaign. I felt really horrible about setting slappy up like that, so I intended to use his predictable attack on Austria as justification for attacking him. Unfortunately, the English delayed my plans by a year, so by the time I actually did break out against Russia, the outrage I had voiced over Austria's destruction was wasted (well, not wasted; slappy helped me into Norway in return for me not being angry anymore). After my assault on Russia, the rest of my course was pretty predictable.

I would like to attribute my success to skill, but it is not so. I was granted an unusually loyal ally who would not stab me even when in an inferior position. My first foe, Magnus, had what appeared to be an obsessive hatred against barron of ideas. Even as I hacked his country apart, his fleets supported me into Scandinavia in order to force the Russians out. I was further helped by Turkey, who not once but twice helped advance the Franco-German cause by turning on and attacking a power we were fighting.

I'd like to apologize to Stapel, whom I treated most unfairly a number of times for no readily apparent reason. You were a victim of circumstance it would take too long to explain (though brevity isn't really on my side in this post, is it?). I'd like to congratulate Gnarf, for holding on quite longer than he could reasonably have been expected to under combined pressure. I'd like to thank Magnus for teaching me a few things and playing a shockingly strong defensive game. I'd like to express my admiration for Sheep, for taking over a ruined and dying country and coming out in 3rd place. I'd like to express regret to slappy; you had great ideas and under different circumstances I would have quite liked to be your ally. I'd like to thank Arminius, without whom I could not possibly have won. Your loyalty and knack at prediction are unparalleled. I'd like to thank kittenOFchaos for being a sublime GM. Lastly, and most importantly, I'd like to thank barron of ideas for NMRing and then dropping out, removing what would have been the most serious impediment to my success. (I believe I made a comment of that sort to kOc right after barron's departure. I was scoffed at )

 

[slappy]

Oops. You're right that Italy didn't devour Austria until the same moment as I did. I misremembered the order there. However, it didn't seem to me at the time that I could fight both Turkey and Germany. Austria was not to be any help against Turkey as he was just trying to hold on against Italy. Meanwhile England was totally kicked out of Britain and, so far as I could see, nothing more than an annoyance to the FG alliance at that stage. Perhaps Magnus could have hung on and been enough of a distraction to Germany to allow me to get somewhere in pushing west, but I still think Austria was bound to fall to Turkey & Italy and I'd have ended up facing an even stronger fight from the south if a somewhat weaker fight from the west. I believe Keirador will confirm that he had no more intention of bending over backwards to help Austria than I had...he just didn't want to see him fall so quickly if it would benefit the Italian. If he'd had England and me to cope with, Austria likely would have had very little German assistance.

 

[Keirador]

Good comments Slappy, but I'd contest that Italy was devouring Austria. Austria had 4 centres and had just thrown the Italians out of Trieste with some help and was gaining German support.

Your attack really took Austria out of the game instead of shoring up the Russian front with Turkey or Germany. I think you needed to cooperate with England against Germany and ready yourself for war with Germany. I'd have gone further perhaps and worked out a deal with Turkey to counterbalance the Franco-German Alliance.

When he took the game there was no real England, just a marauder, as I recall.

 

[slappy]

Not to contradict slappy (or, more accurarely, to respectfully contradict him) but the situation he inherited was, I like to (probably wrongly) think was the result of German pushing.

I don't think we are contradicting each other. You may well have pushed my predecessor into the position where Austria was a tempting target. I took over already positioned and followed through for reasons stated above.

At any rate, congratulations, you magnificent bastard.

 

[Keirador]

In the position you found yourself occupying (armies in Bohemia and Galicia) what choice did you have?

At any rate, thanks. I was mostly lucky.

 

[Keirador]

Oh, and I would agree with the sentiment that barron of ideas didn't seem to have any allies. Just Austria.

 

[Magnus]

First things first, I don't recognize this win as a true 'SOLO' victory for Keriador, he topped the board, which is quite an accomplishment but a solo requires 18+ SC. Sorry, but that's how it goes

Well looking back I had no hope from the start - Germany and France in an unbreakable allliance, Italy and Austria embroiled in a war and could offer no pressure on Germany or France, and the knowledge that the Russian player (Barron at this stage) had a complete hatred for corner powers, England and Turkey and his successor, Slappy, not willing to fight against the Germans when it was clear he PROBABLY dead if he did fight and CERTAINLY dead if he didn't and well I would take probable death over certain death any day!
So, I basically made it 4 years with nothing and I am proud I lasted as long as I could against impossible odds.

I am still surpised nobody stood up to Germany. hard to imagine that he could have solo'd if the game went on long enough - I am wondering how many games the players here had under their belts because veteran players will generally ally to stop the leader at some point and I never saw this happening. Still it was an interesting game and I thank Kitten for GM-ing it and all players for participating and bringing CIVDIP back to life!

 

[Gnarfflinger]

I voted for a German solo because if it would have continued, Germany would have gained the 18 Centres. Four turns, tops.

The Problem with Austria receiving Russian aid is that if Russia changes it's mins suddenly, Austria dies fast. I know that now...

What surprised me was Stapel's claim that Italy and Austria cannot co-operate. This after Barron of Ideas and Kitten of Chaos did it so well in D-Day...

I guess I did well for one stuck with a begger's lot...

 

[Keirador]

First things first, I don't recognize this win as a true 'SOLO' victory for Keriador, he topped the board, which is quite an accomplishment but a solo requires 18+ SC. Sorry, but that's how it goes

So what happened? Is this considered a four-way draw? If that's the case, I won't accept it. I'd prefer taking the risk to fight on; battling for at least a 2-way draw.

 

[Keirador]

Austria's take:

Have any of you ever seen that old episode of "I Love Lucy" where she
went to work in a chocolate factory? Her job was to take the candies
fromt he conveyor belt and put them into the boxes. Like that
episode, this game started out fairly easy (Italian non aggression
pact, distrust between the Russians and the Turks).

Then they sped up the conveyor belt. This translates to Spring 1901,
when Italy proved that they were realy interested in Trieste. His
line was: Nothing personal, but Italy gets screwed when they
co-operate with Austria.

Form that point in the episode, she was scurrying arroud trying to do
her job and prevent the chocolates from hitting the floor--even
filling her mouth with them. Likewise, I started sucking up to Barron
of Ideas and Keirador to get them watching my back and trying to help
give Turkey to Russia to pay off Russia for their aid (then bank on
them trying to take it to Germany). The final nail came when a fresh
pair of eyes (Slappy) realized that he had better position to screw me
over than to help me...

Finally, the last order I could give was for a Pina Colada to be
delivered to the Hot Tub in Peru...

Thanks for the game guys, and maybe one of these times I'll survive one..

One thing I gotta ask. . . if barron of ideas had not left the game, and with our help you eventually stabilized the Italian front (you were on your way there) and got rid of the Turkish threat, who would you have supported in the Russo-German war?

 

[slappy]

With all sincere respect to Magnus, I know you don't agree with my call, but I really don't see how I could have taken on Germany and Turkey at once. I would swap your uses of "probably" and "certainly".

If you go back and check my very first set of orders (Spring '04), I held in the north and waited to see which way the winds of war would be blowing. My move to the Black Sea was prearranged with the Turk and not intended to start anything with him. Simultaneously, Turkey made a considerable lunge at Sevastopol and did not let up for the rest of the game. Had Turkey not pressed me so, I might have seen an opportunity to take advantage of your presence in Scandinavia to make a move on Germany, but the fact was that I was busy with a scuffle with Turkey over Sevastopol and Rumania on one hand and a tug of war with Italy over Austria on the other.

As to the remaining powers turning on Germany as the clear leader, surely some credit must be given to Keirador on that count. As it happened, I certainly pitched a truce to Turkey once or twice so that I could deal with Germany but I think the Sultan saw more gain for him in taking my southern centres than preventing Germany from taking my northern ones...I argued that this was going to be a mistake, but he clearly didn't buy it. With me out of the way, the only two powers who could have turned on Germany were Turkey and France and there remained the matter of Italy to settle. Perhaps France still had a stab in mind once the game was down to three? I don't know.

 

[Arminius]

I was betting that the Turk would choose to hold against the German.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

One thing I gotta ask. . . if barron of ideas had not left the game, and with our help you eventually stabilized the Italian front (you were on your way there) and got rid of the Turkish threat, who would you have supported in the Russo-German war?

Knowing what I now know, I would probably have sided with Germany and hoped to cobble out a comfortable piece of Europe for myself at the end...

 

[TrailblazingScot]

So what happened? Is this considered a four-way draw? If that's the case, I won't accept it. I'd prefer taking the risk to fight on; battling for at least a 2-way draw.

You came first mate and had no opposition that would in my view stopped a solo - I just ended my agony having to herd you all

Magnus is just being nasty

 

[Keirador]

Knowing what I now know, I would probably have sided with Germany and hoped to cobble out a comfortable piece of Europe for myself at the end...

But what would you have done then, at that point in the game?

 

[Gnarfflinger]

Well, I'd have had about 12 to 14 centres, and seeing as Keiradoe and Arminius hadn't turned on each other like a pack of wild dogs, I'd have asked for a three sided split...