new game option: Crystallized Mana

[orlanth]

I'd like to suggest a game option, Crystallized Mana, that would have all mana start out existing as one of the specific mana types. i.e., instead of always finding generic mana crystals where you could build any type of node you want, you would come across sources of Fire Mana, or Life Mana, or Spirit Mana, etc, and would have to develop your strategy around that. Mana could also be made more common to offset not getting to shape it however you like, but there would be no other changes.

I'm sure most people would continue to play as it is now, but this would be a fun option to have available, since it could shake things up if you find yourself always relying on a specific mana strategy, make having >1 mana of the same type more common, make reaching Metamagic a crucial milestone, allow lots of unique scenario maps, and motivate trade deals & territorial wars to control access to a strategic mana resource. And, it would be even more like Master of Magic!

Hopefully this would be an easy option to implement since all the different unimproved mana types seem to be already in place. (I got the idea when my Water Node was destroyed by Raging Seas, and left Water Mana lying there that could only be harvested by another Water Node.) If it turns out this would be really arduous to implement it probably wouldn't be worth the efforts. This could be either for FfH or as an option in a modmod like Fall Further. Let me know what you think!

 

[Yaotzin]

Definitely like the idea assuming it isn't overly difficult to implement. Would make metamagic nodes critical and give Amurites a real advantage, something they could do with.

 

[Turinturambar]

Excellent idea. Right now my mana nodes always get the cookie cutter treatment and this would liven things up.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I'm not sure how it could be implemented as a game option (which doesn't mean it can't be, as I'm no expert on game options), but if you wanted to simply mod it in not as an option it would be very simple to do. It would only have to change 1 file, CIV4BonusInfos.xml, and I see no reason it couldn't be handled modularly.

 

[westamastaflash]

This would be a very neat game option. I'm assuming you'd still need the correct tech to hook the mana up though, correct?

 

[orlanth]

Great, thanks for the quick responses. Maybe I will try this out myself with M.C.'s suggestion, though I am pretty inexperienced at modding. Yes, you would still need to research the appropriate tech and have an Adept build a node as usual; that way what mana was available nearby would influence your research choices. (Rather than vice versa!)

Yaotzin raises a good point that this would make access to a Metamagic node quite valuable. I personally am fine with this and having the Amurites start with that unique advantage. Alternatively, you could have all mana types still be upgradable to Metamagic nodes once you reach Sorcery, to let everyone have a whack at eventually getting Metamagic.

I seem to recall there was a starting game option named Oghma something that made mana crystals more common when starting, but I can't find it in FfH or Fall Further; does anyone know if this is around?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

sounds nice! more options are always welcome

 

[westamastaflash]

I seem to recall there was a starting game option named Oghma something that made mana crystals more common when starting, but I can't find it in FfH or Fall Further; does anyone know if this is around?

Well there's the Rites of Oghma world project, and I seem to recall maybe an old version having that as an option. It would also be neat...

 

[nadszyszkownik]

I seem to recall there was a starting game option named Oghma something that made mana crystals more common when starting, but I can't find it in FfH or Fall Further; does anyone know if this is around?

If you want to customize the amount of mana (or pretty much any other thing) you can try the full of resources mapscript. It takes an eternity to generate at game creation, but has tons of options.


And as for your idea- if it's not too much of a hassle to implement I'd really like it to be done.

 

[Nimbus]

Ok, this sounded cool so I tried editing the bonus.xml file to see how it looked.
I made all mana resources the following.
iplacement- 2
iConstAppearance- 100
iMinAreaSize- 3
iMinLatitude- 0
IMaxLatitude- 90
iRandApp1- 10
iRandApp2- 10
iPlayer- 67
iUnique- 6
bhills- 1
bflatlands- 1
enabled Terrain grass,plains,desert,tundra,snow

I then fired a game up on a Large Map, Double bonuses, 10 players with the creation mapscript

I got the following mana resources generated.
Air 14
Body 14
Chaos 14
Earth 14
Enchantment 14
Entropy 6
Law 2
plain Mana 12

Obviously that is a lot of mana types that were never generated. Was it becuase of double blessings, map script or something else?

OK, I changed3 things and was able to produce much better results
iConstAppearance- 50
iPlayer- 50
iUnique- 4

with double blessings, large map and 10 players every single mana node appeared between 4 and 6 times not including the mana obtained from world improvements.

 

[Ekolite]

Hmmm... Interesting idea but I see two problems.

1. Arcane Lacuna, the amurite world spell, resets all mana nodes to basic mana. This would be more helpful to their opponents then themselves. I think you could just take away the resetting thing and leave them with the experirience for magic users, just increase it a little.

2. Metamagic mana nodes would be hugely valuable. It would be better if they didnt start on the map but had to be upgraded somehow from other mana nodes.

 

[Forral]

Metamagic mana nodes would be hugely valuable. It would be better if they didnt start on the map but had to be upgraded somehow from other mana nodes.

I actually see that new worth of meta magic nodes as something really interessting rather than a problem. Supposing only one or a couple are created on the map, the extents that a player might go to in order to access them are pretty inspiring to me.

Unfortunatly though, I doubt the AI would value them as much as the player would.

/Forral

 

[orlanth]

Ok, by following Magister's suggestion I think I actually managed to do it! Here is a version of Civ4BonusInfos.xml set up to generate indivualized mana types.


To try it out:

1) download/unzip the attached Civ4BonusInfos.zip
2) go to Beyond the Sword/Mods/Fall from Heaven 2 033/Assets/XML/Terrain
3) make a backup copy of the original Civ4BonusInfos.xml
4) copy the new one in its place.


I just finished this and haven't tested extensively, but I've generated a few maps using Fractal and Erebus mapscripts and it appears to be working to make maps with a diversity of mana types.

Basic features:
* The different mana types will most likely be found in specific terrains/areas; with Earth Mana being found in Hills; Fire Mana in Plains/Deserts away from rivers, Death Mana in bleak Desert or Tundra, Shadow Mana closer to polar regions, Sun Mana nearer the equator, etc.
* Mana types will have a minor effect on the yield of the tile they're found in (+1 for Life, +1 for Earth, etc)
* Thanks to the FfH team already making graphics etc for each mana type, this change was quite easy to do and the different manas already look very good on the map.
* You may still occasionally find deposits of the original "uncolored" Mana Crystals, which with the appropriate tech should still be developable to any node type your heart desires..
* I made Metamagic mana distributed somewhat differently, so that there should be roughly one Metamagic deposit in each 16 tile radius area (which hopefully should be fiercely fought over!)

Like I said I haven't really tested this much at all yet, but try it out and let me know your feedback. I'll certainly be tweaking it some more depending on feedback; and anyone is welcome to take/edit/adapt it how they see fit.

 

[Jabie]

How do I put out the fires in my forest when my aggressor has Blaze and I don't have access to Water Mana?

 

[orangelex44]

How do I put out the fires in my forest when my aggressor has Blaze and I don't have access to Water Mana?

You don't. Start crying.

 

[orangelex44]

Although you could try restricting it by cutting some down with Workers, then Blooming it back. Time-consuming, and maybe a bit too micro-managing, but that's kind of the point. It should suck to be in that situation.

 

[orlanth]

Ok, here's a tweaked version that I think strikes a good balance & has made for an enjoyable challenge (at least for me!)

• There is more mana overall than the default game; you will have access to a good variety of magics but will be unable to fully bend them to your whim until you reach Sorcery and secure access to a Metamagic node. The abundance of each type scales with the number of civs, and there is also a random component; there will generally be at least one of each mana type somewhere on every map.
  
• A fair amount of raw mana crystals can still be found, which can be freely shaped by the first to bind them to a node. They are distributed evenly over wide areas so you will have a good chance at securing at least one, allowing you some flexibility early on (choose carefully..)
  
• Mana deposits have been added to the resources the AI uses to adjust fair starting positions, and the AI has been made more willing to trade most mana resources, for the right price.
  
• Sources of Metamagic are placed strategically across very wide areas. There will on average be only one for every two civilizations. The value the AI places on Metamagic has been increased.
  
• I also included a new Civ4ImprovementInfos.xml so that building a node on the mana types will give type-specific benefits to local tile yield.

Overall I think it results in a very unique and playable experience; I know I no longer can always rely on the same old strategies that I always took for granted. Enjoy and let me know any comments/suggestions! In particular, from any playtesting should the various mana types, the raw/colorless mana, or Metamagic be made more or less common? Are there any issues with the mana placement, either for flavour or playability? Thanks!



instructions:
- backup old XMLs
- unzip to Fall from Heaven 2 033/Assets/XML/Terrain

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

this looks really interesting, I'm gonna have to try it out sooner or later. keep up the good work

 

[seZereth]

It sounds Interesting, I suggest you post it into our Modmods and Scenario Suforum, so it does not get lost in the main Thread.

cheers

 

[shrike2005]

Ok, here's a tweaked version that I think strikes a good balance & has made for an enjoyable challenge (at least for me!)

• There is more mana overall than the default game; you will have access to a good variety of magics but will be unable to fully bend them to your whim until you reach Sorcery and secure access to a Metamagic node. The abundance of each type scales with the number of civs, and there is also a random component; there will generally be at least one of each mana type somewhere on every map.
  
• A fair amount of raw mana crystals can still be found, which can be freely shaped by the first to bind them to a node. They are distributed evenly over wide areas so you will have a good chance at securing at least one, allowing you some flexibility early on (choose carefully..)
  
• Mana deposits have been added to the resources the AI uses to adjust fair starting positions, and the AI has been made more willing to trade most mana resources, for the right price.
  
• Sources of Metamagic are placed strategically across very wide areas. There will on average be only one for every two civilizations. The value the AI places on Metamagic has been increased.
  
• I also included a new Civ4ImprovementInfos.xml so that building a node on the mana types will give type-specific benefits to local tile yield.

Overall I think it results in a very unique and playable experience; I know I no longer can always rely on the same old strategies that I always took for granted. Enjoy and let me know any comments/suggestions! In particular, from any playtesting should the various mana types, the raw/colorless mana, or Metamagic be made more or less common? Are there any issues with the mana placement, either for flavour or playability? Thanks!



instructions:
- backup old XMLs
- unzip to Fall from Heaven 2 033/Assets/XML/Terrain

I played a game with this last night and had a blast. The initial placement of the mana was good and there were the right amount of everything. One thing i did notice, was that the uniuqe features that grant mane is now a lot more valuable, and the ai seemed to know this as well. So overall i think that this might be a really nice game option, as it makes a nice change to the playstyle of the game.