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New modder looking for some pointers on a custom Civ

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Creation & Customization' started by DarkScythe, May 14, 2014.

  1. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    Building_SpecialistYieldChanges is global. that's why I suggested tacking it onto a uniques replacement for palace. Effects are empire-wide, and no need to fool with hidden buildings.

    Sure you'd end up with a third unique, but since the only thing it would do as I structured it would be (a) to act as a palace, and has the exact same commands for that as the standard palace, and (b) adds the effect you would really like to add to your leader's trait (but can't because of limitations) I wouldn't worry too much about Purity Grouchers.
     
  2. DarkScythe

    DarkScythe Hunkalicious Holo

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    Haha. At this point I've blown past the "purity" of only having 2 Uniques.
    As it stands, I already have 3 UB's and a UU.

    I'm actually considering the hidden building because the traits themselves are quite limiting.

    1) I cannot believe that you cannot set a trait to increase a terrain yield. Thus, I am thinking I need to use the hidden building with Building_TerrainYieldChanges in every city.

    2) I also want to increase the production cost of everything; Unfortunately, The Trait and Policies don't encompass everything.

    - Traits only has WonderProductionModifier which is used by Egypt.
    - Policies has WonderProductionModifier, BuildingProductionModifier, MilitaryProductionModifier, and SettlerProductionModifier, which is quite a lot, but still doesn't seem like it includes everything.
    - Buildings has WonderProductionModifier, BuildingProductionModifier, SpaceProductionModifier, GlobalSpaceProductionModifier, and MilitaryProductionModifier, which sounds like it would include most everything you'd need to build. However, it still doesn't capture Settlers or Workers, so I was wondering about replacing MilitaryProductionModifier with Building_DomainProductionModifiers and setting the domains to LAND, SEA, and AIR, which should capture literally every unit I can think of.

    Finally, I want to give all of this Civ's units up to 2 unique promotions, and there seems to be another thread here that says Trait_FreePromotions doesn't work, so I was trying to figure out another way around it, and thought about having the hidden building also serve as the place to hand out those promotions with FreePromotion or TrainedFreePromotion. Unfortunately, this still leaves your starting warrior unpromoted, I think.
     
  3. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    Your assumption would be correct. I'll have to re-read through your longer post again to see what else you were looking to do. Also your #22, because I think you might be misunderstanding how a few things actually function. Not sure you are, but a quick skim makes me think you might be.

    Re the palace. You wouldn't want to re-do the palace for every civ. Only add a new one to be used only by your custom civ. Thus I don't see the compatability issues at the moment.
     
  4. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    Another quick note,

    Look in the Traits xml again and look for <Trait_FreePromotionUnitCombats>. If the thread was the one KillMePlease started, take a look at it again.

    I'll probably have more response post(s) once I think through your longer posts upthread.

    Though I will add one more point. Really do consider giving some of the elements you want to try a go as individual stand-alone components tacked on to an existing civ before you try lumping everything into one giant civmod and only then start finding all the gamecodefails all thrown at you in one big overwhelming dollop of confusion. Biggest mistake 1st time modders make when they tackle a civ, IMO. Civs are not anywhere near as easy to do as Keal and other tutorial-authors say they are. Buildings and wonders are simples compared to a civ. So many different elements have to be right in a civ as compared to a building.
     
  5. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    All you need is the table <Civilization_BuildingClassOverrides> as part of a new building you are adding to the game, as I did in the unique palace test:
    Code:
    <Civilization_BuildingClassOverrides>
    	<Row>
    		<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_AMERICA</CivilizationType>
    		<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_PALACE</BuildingClassType>
    		<BuildingType>BUILDING_AMERICAN_PALACE</BuildingType>
    	</Row>
    </Civilization_BuildingClassOverrides>
    No, it does not affect the faith cost of the next GP you can buy with faith. It only effects the faith cost of missionaries, inquisitors, and buildings that can be purchased with faith. The only commands I know of to effect the faithcosts of great people are buried in the GlobalDefines.xml, but the efffects are implemented game-wide, not just to a single civilization. Attempting to <Update> the ones to affect Great Prophet generation can make the entire belief-selection system fail in-game.
    Not understanding why you'd want to do #4 or #6. #6 you could do, but the regular building might become essentially unbuildable for anyone who plays wide, and you'd only ever be able to build one copy of the building in any one game. Might make be simpler to just add a new national wonder, both for you and the player.
    #5 I have no experience that was successful in changing any gameplay effect of resources except those effects controlled-by or required-by buildings.
    Welcome to CIV5 Modding!
    I'd try take a look at the <Trait_FreePromotionUnitCombats> table for the free promotions issue, but a hidden building might very well be the way to go for the terrain issue. <FreePromotion> in the <Buildings> table is global.
    Niether MilitaryProductionModifier nor the table Building_DomainProductionModifiers will effect workers and settlers. They are for combat units. Having Land, Sea, and Air <rows> in the Building_DomainProductionModifiers table is the same as using the MilitaryProductionModifier command in the <Buildings> table. No real advantage to doing it one way or the other so far as gameplay effects go.
     
  6. DarkScythe

    DarkScythe Hunkalicious Holo

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    Many thanks as always, LeeS!
    I am impressed with how knowledgeable and helpful you guys are around here.

    With regard to the Palace: Is there any difference between modifying the Palace, and creating a new, unbuildable UB granted via Trait_FreeBuildingClasses with <Capital> set to True?

    I will look up Trait_FreePromotionUnitCombats as suggested. I think I may have overlooked it the first time because FreePromotion looked to be more "universal," and also I was trying to give some Promotions to certain Great People as well which I don't think are classified as Combat Units. However, I just created one of my Civ's UU's (I think!) by copying the Great Merchant unit, and giving it the Venetian Merchant's Trade Mission Bonus promotion. I wasn't sure how else to go about it without affecting Great Merchants globally, and I suppose I can do the same for the Great General and Admirals. That would allow the Trait_FreePromotionUnitCombats to go about targetting everything else that needs a promotion. (I suppose this should also grant it to your starting Warrior?)

    I'll also agree with you that I should probably test this stuff piecemeal in a stock Civ that I know works. Unfortunately, I had no idea how to do so, but with your information, and the aforementioned American Palace replacement, I can probably piece together the code needed to simply update the American Civ with whatever thing I need to test. Will probably still take a while though, since I've not done that before. Gotta start somewhere!

    Thanks for the tip with MilitaryProductionModifier.. I suppose it was naive of me to think that a Settler and a Worker, both units that walk on the ground, would be under the domain of Land, lol.
    Are these two the only units that are exempt from these classifications? I recall seeing in the XML a <MilitaryProduction> tag under the Work Boat, of all things, so I'm a bit confused as to what is truly classified as what.

    (As an aside on things that don't make any sense to me right now: While copying data from the Great Merchant and the Merchant of Venice, there was one difference that I could not explain: The Great Merchant's <MoveRate> is that of GREAT_PERSON, but the Merchant of Venice's <MoveRate> is WOODEN_BOAT ... what?)

    As well, please allow me to explain my points #4 and 6.
    For #6, it made sense for me to try to make the NW a pre-req because I have 2 UB's that are related to each other -- Specifically, the NW is an "HQ" building, and the regular UB is a "Branch Office" building, so it made sense that the HQ would need to be erected first, before the branch offices. However, the workaround I have now is to just push the NW replacement up one tech ahead of when it normally unlocks.

    For #4, I am giving this Civ fairly good bonuses elsewhere, and so I want Faith to play a much smaller role for this Civ. (It also makes sense based on the lore I am basing this Civ on.) Essentially, I don't mind if the Civ can establish a religion, but I don't want this Civ being able to easily spread its religion. Even if I disable Missionaries, they can still use the Great Prophets to spread, but this typically won't happen until the 3rd GP, since the first two are usually spent establishing, and enhancing, a religion. Hopefully that's enough time for other Civs to found their own religions, and the player would hopefully use the GP's defensively. This is why I thought it might be an interesting idea to try and disable Missionaries for this Civ.
     
  7. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    huh. Well you've got me on the workboat and Venetian Merchant deal. Hadn't ever noticed those before. That's a stumper to me. I haven't played much as venice since the whole one-city-challenge never really appealed to me. But the last thing you should expect is for Firaxis to have been consistent.
    Taking a quick look through the the units again you're correct regarding Workers and Settlers being the only units that you build in the normal way that don't have the MilitaryProduction and MilitarySupport attributes. At least so far as I was able to see. So the commands to increase production for military units by the Domain table or the MilitaryProductionModifier should apply to everything but Workers and Settlers. This makes a certain amount of sense because there are other ways that Firaxis treats workers and settlers differently than other units.

    "With regard to the Palace: Is there any difference between modifying the Palace, and creating a new, unbuildable UB granted via Trait_FreeBuildingClasses with <Capital> set to True?"

    Trait_FreeBuildingClasses ? Do you mean <FreeBuilding> in the <Traits> table? I haven't tried to do it that way, but since Carthage's (Dido's actually) Trait includes <FreeBuilding>Harbor</FreeBuilding> I can't see why your idea wouldn't work as well as creating a unique Palace replacement for your civ. I don't ever remember seeing free harbors showing up in inland cities whenever I've played as Carthage. Except that you wouldn't actually want to use <Capital> , since this is what defines the Palace as being the center of the empire, in effect. I would try

    edit:Tried this. It's a no go.
    Code:
    <Building_ClassesNeededInCity>
    	<Row>
    		<BuildingType>BUILDING_NEW_BUILDING</BuildingType>
    		<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_PALACE</BuildingClassType>
    	</Row>
    </Building_ClassesNeededInCity>
    Replace BUILDING_NEW_BUILDING with whatever XML-name you use for your building. Just remember I've never tried it this way before but I think it should work.

    So far as the NW being a requirement for another building, that's entirely up to you. I just couldn't figure out why you were wanting to do that.

    Don't be suprised if you disable missionaries for your civ bizazrre stuff starts to happen or if the game just refuses to load your mod. This would disable Missionaries for Rome. You'd have to alter the civ name to the one for your civ, of course.

    Code:
     <Civilization_UnitClassOverrides>
    	<Row>
    		<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_ROME</CivilizationType>
    		<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_MISSIONARY</UnitClassType>
    		<UnitType/>
    	</Row>
    </Civilization_UnitClassOverrides>
     
  8. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    I tried the method of tying a hidden building given for free by the leader trait to a prereq that the palace had to exist in the city. Didn't work:sad:

    I think the only good way to go for the specialists consuming more food than normal is the original method I proposed using a unique replacement for the palace. That way if needed you can also implement some of your other ideas by giving a free hidden building in every city the civ constructs.
     
  9. DarkScythe

    DarkScythe Hunkalicious Holo

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    I'll need to test at some point the Venetian Merchant and the regular Great Merchant when embarked, to see if there's a difference in how they move over water. That's the only thing I can think of.

    That said, I just finished most of the code for my NW replacement building to satisfy the second Unique item requirement, and built my mod for the first time. I expected some issues, but surprisingly, everything loaded smoothly without game crashes or any complaints, and everything I have added so far appears to be working perfectly. I am extremely excited right now, haha.

    Whoops, yes I mean FreeBuilding under the Traits table.
    I'm not sure how I made it like that; I must have been looking at free building parameters in the other tables and had gotten confused. I have most of these organized into a document, but it's still a lot of overlap sometimes.

    I suppose if FreeBuilding grants the building to every city, present and future, it'd be the one to use for the hidden building.
    I'm not set on making my other building a separate building yet; I had originally planned to make it a Palace replacement -- I only have reservations because of Vicevirtuoso's recommendation against doing so.
    That said, this particular building would be tied to wherever the Palace (and Capital) is, so perhaps it does just make more sense to replace the Palace with it. I haven't yet figured out how I want to handle a situation where your Capital gets captured, and you lose this accompanying building forever.

    As far as the Missionaries go, I found this in the Traits schema:
    Code:
    	<Table name="Trait_NoTrain">
    		<Column name="TraitType" type="text" reference="Traits(Type)"/>
    		<Column name="UnitClassType" type="text" notnull="true" reference="UnitClasses(Type)"/>
    	</Table>
    It seems that Venice uses this to disable Settlers.
    Code:
    	<Trait_NoTrain>
    		<Row>
    			<TraitType>TRAIT_SUPER_CITY_STATE</TraitType>
    			<UnitClassType>UNITCLASS_SETTLER</UnitClassType>
    		</Row>
    	</Trait_NoTrain>
    Would this be a better bet than the override?
     
  10. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    That might very well be a better way to go. But this is only a guess. You've just gone beyond where I have any experience. I've never played around with that trait table.

    I'm a little confused still by ViceVurtuoso's concerns re the palace replacement though. Perhaps he'll drop by with a bit more explanation, or you could drop a link to whatever thread it was where he stated his concerns?
     
  11. bouncymischa

    bouncymischa Synthetic Genie

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    I'm not sure what the issues are with a Palace replacement, as I know others have used them. Still, if there is a compatibility issue or something, couldn't you just grant an unbuildable building through the <Civilization_FreeBuildingClasses> table? That's how you get your Palace into the capital...
     
  12. Vicevirtuoso

    Vicevirtuoso The Modetta Man

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    My main concern with the Palace is that it introduces incompatibilities between G&K and BNW, if you want to make your mod compatible with both. Palaces need an Art slot in BNW, which will cause an error if loaded in G&K. Of course, you can have a separate XML file using <Update> tags to rectify this if needed -- if G&K is loaded, it will just drop that XML file. And if you only plan on BNW compatibility, then there's no issue.
     
  13. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    Oh, OK. I thought maybe you had found some problem that came from the dll source code that I hadn't encountered yet.

    Yeah, that's a case where a modder is simply going to have to decide whether to be concerned about G&K compatability or not. Or to use your trick of a seperate file in the mod with only the artwork slot command as an update that will fail in G&K. I will keep that one in mind, though, as a future tool in my kit.

    And you face the same sorts of decisions anytime you want to do anything to markets, banks, granaries, workshops, etc., as G&K doesn't know what to do with the trade route systems.
     
  14. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    Never thought of trying that. Have to a test to see what happens. Probably have to set the MaxPlayerOccurances=1 in the <BuildingClasses> table to only get one copy of the special hidden or dummy building.
     
  15. whoward69

    whoward69 DLL Minion

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    <Civilization_FreeBuildingClasses> are only added to the capital, unlike the free buildings from traits which are added to every city
     
  16. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    Yup. I can attest to that! Test I used was good for in the capital but no good anywhere else. Since this is pretty much what Darkscythe was looking for that should work for him.

    I structured this with the idea of G&K compatability in mind, so the building isn't hidden. It shows up as I structured in the wonders list of the city. Nothing shows up in the civilopedia, but that can be changed by simply adding <Help> tags, etc. Game didn't like it without the <Description> tags, though. It can still be completely hidden for BNW-only with a little re-structure. And I simply borrowed the America Civ icon. The <Building_YieldChanges> can also be eliminated. I just took the basic definition of the building from something I had "laying around" on my computer. Darkscythe, feel free to use of course, just do me the favor of changing "_LS" at the end of the building XML-names to something else just in case I want to use this in a mod of my own at some point. Better to not even have a possibility of your dummy building clashing with mine because they have the same exact XML-name.

    Spoiler :
    Code:
    <GameData>
    	<BuildingClasses>
    		<Row>
    			<Type>BUILDINGCLASS_DUMMY_LS</Type>
    			<DefaultBuilding>BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</DefaultBuilding>
    			<Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</Description>
    			<MaxPlayerInstances>1</MaxPlayerInstances>
    		</Row>
    	</BuildingClasses>
    
    	<Civilization_FreeBuildingClasses>
    		<Row>
    			<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_AMERICA</CivilizationType>
    			<BuildingClassType>BUILDINGCLASS_DUMMY_LS</BuildingClassType>
    		</Row>
    	</Civilization_FreeBuildingClasses>
    
    	<Buildings>
    		<Row>
    			<Type>BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</Type>
    			<BuildingClass>BUILDINGCLASS_DUMMY_LS</BuildingClass>
    			<Cost>-1</Cost>
    			<FaithCost>-1</FaithCost>
    			<PrereqTech>NULL</PrereqTech>
    			<ArtDefineTag>NONE</ArtDefineTag>
    			<MinAreaSize>-1</MinAreaSize>
    			<Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</Description>
    			<!--	<Help>Sorry, can't help you with this!</Help>
    			<Civilopedia>It's a Dummy</Civilopedia>
    			<Strategy>Dummy, dummy!</Strategy>	-->			
    			<NeverCapture>true</NeverCapture>
    			<HurryCostModifier>-1</HurryCostModifier>
    			<PortraitIndex>0</PortraitIndex>
    			<IconAtlas>CIV_COLOR_ATLAS</IconAtlas>
    		</Row>
    	</Buildings>
    
    	<Building_YieldChanges>
    		<Row>
    			<BuildingType>BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</BuildingType>
    			<YieldType>YIELD_GOLD</YieldType>
    			<Yield>3</Yield>
    		</Row>
    	</Building_YieldChanges>
    
    		<!-- THIS TABLE ADDS THE EXTRA FOOD CONSUMPTION EFFECT TO ALL SPECIALISTS EXCEPT UNEMPLOYED CITIZENS -->
    	<Building_SpecialistYieldChanges>
    		<Row>
    			<BuildingType>BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</BuildingType>
    			<SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_ARTIST</SpecialistType>
    			<YieldType>YIELD_FOOD</YieldType>
    			<Yield>-1</Yield>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<BuildingType>BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</BuildingType>
    			<SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_WRITER</SpecialistType>
    			<YieldType>YIELD_FOOD</YieldType>
    			<Yield>-1</Yield>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<BuildingType>BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</BuildingType>
    			<SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_MUSICIAN</SpecialistType>
    			<YieldType>YIELD_FOOD</YieldType>
    			<Yield>-1</Yield>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<BuildingType>BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</BuildingType>
    			<SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_SCIENTIST</SpecialistType>
    			<YieldType>YIELD_FOOD</YieldType>
    			<Yield>-1</Yield>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<BuildingType>BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</BuildingType>
    			<SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_MERCHANT</SpecialistType>
    			<YieldType>YIELD_FOOD</YieldType>
    			<Yield>-1</Yield>
    		</Row>
    		<Row>
    			<BuildingType>BUILDING_DUMMY_LS</BuildingType>
    			<SpecialistType>SPECIALIST_ENGINEER</SpecialistType>
    			<YieldType>YIELD_FOOD</YieldType>
    			<Yield>-1</Yield>
    		</Row>
    	</Building_SpecialistYieldChanges>
    
    	<Language_en_US>
    		<!-- In-game name of the building -->
    		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_BUILDING_DUMMY_LS">
    			<Text>Dummy</Text>
    		</Row>
    	</Language_en_US>
    </GameData>


    ps added: I tested without the <MaxPlayerInstances> command, and as Whoward69 says, the game only inserted the building into the capital city. The only real change in effect is that the dummy building showed as a regular building in the city's list instead of as a national wonder.
     
  17. DarkScythe

    DarkScythe Hunkalicious Holo

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    Ahh, so it's the Great Works slot that does it.
    I kind of had a feeling, but I wasn't sure if there were any other intrinsic problems with replacing a Palace. If that's the only real issue, I can probably go ahead and just replace it, then; I think it'll be a lot easier in the end, if I keep this Civ BNW-only. If I ever decide to support G&K, I'll probably be more equipped to handle moving stuff out to <Update> tags in a separate file, but as the Civ relies heavily on BNW's trade route system, I'm not sure I could feasibly engineer G&K-style bonuses that would make sense.

    Actually, in a random brainstorm, I thought about removing the Great Work slot entirely in my Palace replacement, and giving it a Specialist slot instead.

    LeeS: Thanks again for your effort!
    I've currently got a hidden building distributed to all cities with the TerrainYieldChanges effect active, and as far as I can tell, it's working perfectly. I tested what happens when a city gets captured and recaptured, and it seems the hidden building is removed and re-added properly.

    If I am going the route of replacing the Palace, I probably no longer have any need to tie an additional building to the Capital alongside it, although I'm sure this information could come in handy in the future, or to other modders who might have a reason to do so.

    I will test the NoTrain and report back on my results, though.

    One issue I did finally run into last night are two traits that weren't working -- or at least I'm not aware of how it works.
    These are:
    Trait_YieldChangesPerTradePartner
    Trait_YieldChangesIncomingTradeRoute

    Both of those are used by the Moroccan Civ trait "Gateway to Africa" which adds what I assume are inherent bonuses to trade routes. I added those to provide an extra 3 Gold both ways, but when I tested with a Caravan going both ways between my City and an AI city, neither of us seemed to gain any extra Gold; Total Gold was around 2 GPT (really early-game.)

    Not sure what's going on there.

    Also, with the hidden building being in its own buildingclass, do I need to add code to prevent anyone else from acquiring this? It should be unbuildable with a cost of -1, but I'm not sure if I need to go ahead and override or set its defaultbuilding to nothing.
     
  18. DarkScythe

    DarkScythe Hunkalicious Holo

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    As an aside, LeeS, I posted to your advanced building thread with a few pieces of data I observed in my testing last night; Here's a repost for those interested that are currently following this thread:

     
  19. bouncymischa

    bouncymischa Synthetic Genie

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    OOOOOH... now this is an interesting discovery! My Tanuki civilization is pretty esiponage-based, but their UA only really kicked in in the Renaissance, which felt a bit blah... but with this find, I could make it so that when you enter the Classical and/or Medieval era, you could get an early spy. I'd just have to spawn an unbuildable dummy building which gave the spy, so it'd solve the "destroy and rebuild" issue.

    Thanks for the discovery!
     
  20. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator Supporter

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    I'll have to look at how I explained the ExtraSpies. May have made it seem I was not completely grasping how that one worked, or perhaps never updated that text. It's the SpyRankChange and the AffectSpiesNow (if I'm remembering the correct labels for the commands) that have always been a little murky to me.
     

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