New Natural Wonder Bit Much

[The QC]

I'm also not sure why Potosi is in the list - I'm not aware of anything that makes it obviously deserving of "wonder" status, but it's a real landform.

If you ask me, Potosi has the best case for a real natural wonder, out of everything that is represented in the game.

It was basically a mountain made out of silver! It made the Spanish ridiculously rich, destabilized the Ming dynasty, resulted in massive inflation and instability in the value of silver, and generally had an enormous, long lasting effect on the world economy.

The Great Barrier Reef sure is pretty, but I don't know if it really generates science .

 

[kaspergm]

No natural wonder can beat the sheer op of the Grand Mesa! In the late game it only yields one less than a hill/riverside trading post and you didn't need to spend any precious turns building it.

Of the new NWs, I'm mostly worried by the unique promotion from Kilimanjaro. I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't take any clues from the communities reaction last time they made a "natural" wonder that provides a unique promotion just from staying adjacent to it.

 

[PhilBowles]

Of the new NWs, I'm mostly worried by the unique promotion from Kilimanjaro. I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't take any clues from the communities reaction last time they made a "natural" wonder that provides a unique promotion just from staying adjacent to it.

Not sure what Kilamanjaro does, but has it been confirmed it's in the main game and isn't just a scenario NW, as the Fountain and El Dorado originally were?

 

[Deggial]

Not sure what Kilamanjaro does, but has it been confirmed it's in the main game and isn't just a scenario NW, as the Fountain and El Dorado originally were?

Kilimanjaro:
Yield: +3 Food, +2 Culture. Adjacent units move at double speed through Hills and receive a combat bonus on Hills for the rest of the game.
(Taken from Arioch's CiV Analyst website.)

I don't know about your 2nd question - but I don't know why it shouldn't be in the main game. Is there an appearance probability in the XML files for it?

Anyway, I have no problem with those very strong and/or "fantay wonders" at all. I think they make each game more unique. With CiV's "watered down" tile yields (compared to Civ4) they bring back the glory of at least some awesome city spots.

 

[Arilian]

Grad Mesa is bad, even with Spain

KSM will be an average NW
For Spain it will be indeed powerful, but both GBR and FOY is better. In single player. Science>Prod.

 

[damnyankees]

Grad Mesa is bad, even with Spain

KSM will be an average NW
For Spain it will be indeed powerful, but both GBR and FOY is better. In single player. Science>Prod.

GBR is always best for Spain. It gets you 1,000 instant gold and +16 faith per turn if you take that pantheon.

 

[Ricard.Bossle]

It looks like Lake Victoria has 6food, which is pretty nice for the Ancient Era. Spain would get 12 food. I wonder if the Aztec Floating Garden would modify that.

In a perfect world, Lake Victoria would give Spain a mediocre 12 +8 +10 +500.
How not to love play with Spain?

 

[Brutus2]

Potosi is a real thing. Why do you group it with the others?

I just feel those three are all overpowered but you're right, I especially dislike the other two because they are not even real and should not be Natural Wonders.

I'm sure they could be modded out but that disables achievements.

 

[Babri]

If you ask me, Potosi has the best case for a real natural wonder, out of everything that is represented in the game.

It was basically a mountain made out of silver! It made the Spanish ridiculously rich, destabilized the Ming dynasty, resulted in massive inflation and instability in the value of silver, and generally had an enormous, long lasting effect on the world economy.

The Great Barrier Reef sure is pretty, but I don't know if it really generates science .

How did Potosi resulted in destabilization of the Ming dynasty?

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

 

[damnyankees]

How did Potosi resulted in destabilization of the Ming dynasty?

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2

Massive influx of silver sort of ruined their economy. Read 1493, it's a fascinating story.

 

[The QC]

How did Potosi resulted in destabilization of the Ming dynasty?

Glad you asked! It's a fascinating topic.

At the time, the Ming were issuing paper money but, being rather terrible rulers and lacking a precedent that would teach them what can happen, they started printing more and more, which caused inflation.

Traders started using silver bars as a more reliable currency, but China didn't have many sources of it. Spain did have a brilliant one, though: Potosi. They were getting so much of it, that the silver they gave to Chinese traders in exchange for silk and other goods flooded China and caused a new wave of massive inflation.

It's all documented in a book named 1493, by Charles C. Mann. It's an interesting book, but with some dull sections. Mann's first book about the Americas, 1491, is thoroughly excellent, though.

 

[headcase]

Mt. Kilimanjaro sounds pretty ridiculous too: any unit near it becomes twice as fast on hills and has an attack bonus on hills. I kind of liked how with the Fountain of Youth you wanted to get all your troops over to another continent, get the promotion, and send them back, but the effects of both it and Kilimanjaro are just too strong, plus I don't think the AI is very good at taking advantage of it.

 

[Pikachao]

Massive influx of silver sort of ruined their economy. Read 1493, it's a fascinating story.

Crash course has a great video on it actually (and potosi in general): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjhIzemLdos

I don't think KSM is very overpowered, 6 isn't that huge a deal and it'd cost a trade route to keep growth up. it's kilamanjaro that would be super powerful, really the only reason Kilamanjaro isn't the best of the three wonders is that it's promotion isn't doubled for spain.

 

[bjarkieinars]

I'm sure they could be modded out but that disables achievements.

This explains a lot...

 

[Arkangelus]

Mt. Kilimanjaro sounds pretty ridiculous too: any unit near it becomes twice as fast on hills and has an attack bonus on hills. I kind of liked how with the Fountain of Youth you wanted to get all your troops over to another continent, get the promotion, and send them back, but the effects of both it and Kilimanjaro are just too strong, plus I don't think the AI is very good at taking advantage of it.

Actually in one of the very few games where I had the FoY spawn lately (close enough to my borders I ended up with it!), the AI very noticably frequently attempted to marshal their entire army through the tiny peninsula it was on, and it was the focus of war to control it from very very early. The AI clearly highly prioritised it.

I do feel a little bit hmmm about Kilimanjaro though, Seems an odd and awfully strong bonus for a very straightforward natural wonder. Does the bonus reflect that the troops have taken part in training on the mountain and so are unfazed and elite in hills from then on?

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

King Solomon's Mines will be added to my list of modded out Natural Wonders (with Fountain of Youth and El Dorado) and I'll be removing Kilimanjaro's bonus promotion.

 

[theadder]

Actually in one of the very few games where I had the FoY spawn lately (close enough to my borders I ended up with it!), the AI very noticably frequently attempted to marshal their entire army through the tiny peninsula it was on, and it was the focus of war to control it from very very early. The AI clearly highly prioritised it.

I had an experience like this also. The AI was very keen to control that natural wonder.

 

[PhilBowles]

Kilimanjaro:
Yield: +3 Food, +2 Culture. Adjacent units move at double speed through Hills and receive a combat bonus on Hills for the rest of the game.
(Taken from Arioch's CiV Analyst website.)

I don't know about your 2nd question - but I don't know why it shouldn't be in the main game.

Well, originally the two fantasy Wonders were part of a scenario and weren't in the main game (and should arguably have stayed that way). In general most features added for scenarios - including new graphics - aren't added to the main game.

Alternatively, it could always be that the Natural Wonder will be recycled, but that the magic promotion is scenario-only. It would strike me as odd if they added 3+ NWs but only gave one a magic bonus, rather than all or none of them. There's nothing particularly mystical about Kilamanjaro, and the promotion is very odd - it's a notable feature of the real-world mountain that it isn't part of a mountain range, and is mostly surrounded by fairly flat land.

Is there an appearance probability in the XML files for it?

Good question. Do the XML files mean we know the full set of new NWs?

 

[Matthew.]

I like it. Needs to be powerful enough to modify your gameplay, and a lot of [vanilla] naturals just don't do that. Someone mentioned Mesa which is a good example. I've never been like "Wooo Grand Mesa! I must totally try and get a city near there!"

 

[Nicasen]

I don't really see what's so overpowered and game breaking about +6 production unless you find it really close by. Fountain of youth and El dorado are OP, but the equivalent of 2 mine tiles for the price of 1? Not so much.