New Technolgy: Cooking
- Thread starter civ freak
- Start date
Mewtarthio
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2004
- Messages
- 1,930
Percentage boosts should be avoided unless there's a very good reason for it. Restaurants are nowhere near the massive undertaking of a Cathedral nor do they have the culture-spreading abilities of Hollywood or other entertainment icons. Also, restaurants don't increase food, nor do they facilitate its distribution. They come up with fancy ways to prepare the food that's already there and slap a high price tag on it.
By the way, you've double-posted this topic. I assume this is the topic you want people to post in. Remember the edit button and don't forget to preview your post.
By the way, you've double-posted this topic. I assume this is the topic you want people to post in. Remember the edit button and don't forget to preview your post.
I agree with Mewtarthio's points - and I would add:
An effective tweak to your concept would be: +1 Health in the early game, and perhaps as with Hamlet-Village-Town development, adding Gold/money generation on the city tile itself. A way of capturing the increasing sophistication of one's restaurant/cuisine culture, and the trade it attracts. If one wants to add 'Culture' points to that, which I wouldn't, it shouldn't exceed the 4points one gets from Castle.
An effective tweak to your concept would be: +1 Health in the early game, and perhaps as with Hamlet-Village-Town development, adding Gold/money generation on the city tile itself. A way of capturing the increasing sophistication of one's restaurant/cuisine culture, and the trade it attracts. If one wants to add 'Culture' points to that, which I wouldn't, it shouldn't exceed the 4points one gets from Castle.
chef pablo
Warlord
Mewtarthio said:
hey now carefull,this my life blood...I agree cooking has no buisness being here,although there could be an argument made for culture.
Restaurants might contribute to culture. I've been to a fair few that could be considered as doing that. Also, because of the demand for restaurant-prepared food and the supply generated, one would think there would be some contribution to wealth, although considering how much towns, banks, and markets give, I'm not sure a single restaurant would be too significant. One thing I would like is to see it cause health bonuses based on food resources. Afterall, restaurant-prepared seafood and meat tend to be pretty healthy usually (at least in comparison to raw stuff you get at the grocer and prepare yourself). Still, I'm not sure a restaurant (although definitely a contributor to cities) are on their own significant enough to match things like grocer, market, etc.
chef pablo
Warlord
culture i see,but as far as wealth ,9 out of 10 restaraunts fail in the first 2 years.that dosnt say alot for creating capitol and on the health issue..if you only knew.lets just say if its good food, its probally has so much butter and fat pact in ,that an elephants arteries arnt big enough ,but dont let that scare you ,go out and eat out as much as you can afford,my kids colledge tuition depends on it.
chef pablo said:culture i see,but as far as wealth ,9 out of 10 restaraunts fail in the first 2 years.that dosnt say alot for creating capitol and on the health issue..if you only knew.lets just say if its good food, its probally has so much butter and fat pact in ,that an elephants arteries arnt big enough ,but dont let that scare you ,go out and eat out as much as you can afford,my kids colledge tuition depends on it.
Well, in those early days of starvation, a butter-fat-laden diet *is* a health boon ... just think of Fish & Chips for the early British industrial worker. Grim, but 'healthy.'
As for business failures - just consider all the resources that are called upon for those failures - it is a significant economic driver for a city...and one of the earliest forms of entrepreneurship (somewhere after prostitution, farming, and brewing).
chef pablo
Warlord
A little history and info on the biz that I love and hate
The first restaraunt was established in paris in 167?,I know this because one of my firsts chefs was a very hostile frenchman who would smack me upside the head when i couldnt produce the date for him,that was 10 years ago so ive forgotten the exact date(I hope chef thierry dosnt read these things).
I only metioned the "good" reataraunts,these places such as mine incorperate alot of natural fats into the product,as has been done for centuries.
As for the chaine restaraunts and fast food, The current trend in health dept. regulations becoming stricter and stricter has forced these companys to reley on processed product as a means to controle cost.this means that the tighter the regulations get the more unnatural preservatives and flavorings get used .This not only true for the US but europes codes are becoming more strict as well,France has a no open flame ristriction as do many other european countries making it neccesary to package food product in bags to heat and cook.
Many years ago I was givin a pair of kitchen shears from a scottish chef as parting gift when leaving this restaraunt with the joke of "well now your going to go work in an american restaraunt your going to need these to open the plastig bags".This is the case now across the civilized world.
This is also a problem for the proccesing companys as they are often under the same regulations.The larger companys such as kraft and hienz employe more chemists than chefs for reserch and development .If that dosnt scare you than i dont know what will.
On the subject of revenue, of those 9 failures that i mentioned half go out owing big .it is not unusual for a restaraunt to close still owing hundreds of thoasands of dollars.
In a restaraunt 90% of your stock has a shelf life of a week(there is no dollar days here if you cant sell it its a loss)your stock is approxmatly 30% cost of your profit,10% is labor which is for the most part uneducated and underprivlidged,this is actually a low number most of the time its more like 20%.40% goes to overhead (your lights, lenin,the constant replacement of dishware,rent and so on)and you are left with a whopping 10-20%net.the % for food and labor cost can flucuate wildly ,remember 90%of your stock is perashable, leave a case of steaks out over night and you drop a percentage on your food cost for a period.Unwittingly employ a thief and your labor and possibly your food cost will suffer.
This is such a high risk industry that banks dont give buisness loans to restaraunts,its even dificult to get a small buisness loan from the goverment.
so to wrap this up commerce food and health bonuses are out,but i could see some culture.
The first restaraunt was established in paris in 167?,I know this because one of my firsts chefs was a very hostile frenchman who would smack me upside the head when i couldnt produce the date for him,that was 10 years ago so ive forgotten the exact date(I hope chef thierry dosnt read these things).
I only metioned the "good" reataraunts,these places such as mine incorperate alot of natural fats into the product,as has been done for centuries.
As for the chaine restaraunts and fast food, The current trend in health dept. regulations becoming stricter and stricter has forced these companys to reley on processed product as a means to controle cost.this means that the tighter the regulations get the more unnatural preservatives and flavorings get used .This not only true for the US but europes codes are becoming more strict as well,France has a no open flame ristriction as do many other european countries making it neccesary to package food product in bags to heat and cook.
Many years ago I was givin a pair of kitchen shears from a scottish chef as parting gift when leaving this restaraunt with the joke of "well now your going to go work in an american restaraunt your going to need these to open the plastig bags".This is the case now across the civilized world.
This is also a problem for the proccesing companys as they are often under the same regulations.The larger companys such as kraft and hienz employe more chemists than chefs for reserch and development .If that dosnt scare you than i dont know what will.
On the subject of revenue, of those 9 failures that i mentioned half go out owing big .it is not unusual for a restaraunt to close still owing hundreds of thoasands of dollars.
In a restaraunt 90% of your stock has a shelf life of a week(there is no dollar days here if you cant sell it its a loss)your stock is approxmatly 30% cost of your profit,10% is labor which is for the most part uneducated and underprivlidged,this is actually a low number most of the time its more like 20%.40% goes to overhead (your lights, lenin,the constant replacement of dishware,rent and so on)and you are left with a whopping 10-20%net.the % for food and labor cost can flucuate wildly ,remember 90%of your stock is perashable, leave a case of steaks out over night and you drop a percentage on your food cost for a period.Unwittingly employ a thief and your labor and possibly your food cost will suffer.
This is such a high risk industry that banks dont give buisness loans to restaraunts,its even dificult to get a small buisness loan from the goverment.
so to wrap this up commerce food and health bonuses are out,but i could see some culture.
chef pablo said:
Thanks for the insight.
- I think an argument can be made for the health & commerce bonuses from a macroscale.When a city is known for its restaurants (perhaps a function of Culture Points), even if there is a lot of turn-over from failed business ventures, people will want to come to that city to explore these famous places. And even locals will be keen to try 'the new place at the corner.'
As for Health - I think it might apply in the early part of the game. After all, if early domesticated Cows, Pigs, Shellfish, and Sheep give +1 Health ... even though ancient dietary restrictions suggest significant illness and death from those pre-sterilised/-refridgerated foodsources ... restaurants represent an early form of food preparation specialisation - and those very wealthy who bought these services certainly lived longer and better than the average person of the day.
chef pablo
Warlord
culture you got .if im ever sitting around after work with a bunch of other chefs working on some vino,dicussing where wede like to visit it generaly centers aroand food.
health i just dont buy,I know my industry to well and remeber at one time it was fasionable to be obees,it was a sighn of wealth.Another thing to ponder is if it was healthy to eat out why would there be a health dept.
health i just dont buy,I know my industry to well and remeber at one time it was fasionable to be obees,it was a sighn of wealth.Another thing to ponder is if it was healthy to eat out why would there be a health dept.
