New terrain features

[Hydromancerx]

Are you putting seals and walruses on the maps? There is a python file C2C_Terrain_Addons.py in Assets/Python/DancingHoskuld which was the post script until I found out that the GameStart was being called by scenarios as well. Duh! t has some things that probably need to go in the map scripts.

I have seen your walrus, seals and on the PW map. However I have not seen any Mammoths or the Rock Formations (both polar and arid) or Tar Pits or Fossils. I have however seen both types of volcanoes spawn.

 

[AIAndy]

@AIAndy

Can you make it so that the volcano never spawn on hills or mountains? They hover in the air if they are placed on them. Restricting them to flat ground would solve the hovering issue.

There is an xml tag for that. I set it to 1 in the attached xml.

 

[AIAndy]

Are you putting seals and walruses on the maps? There is a python file C2C_Terrain_Addons.py in Assets/Python/DancingHoskuld which was the post script until I found out that the GameStart was being called by scenarios as well. Duh! t has some things that probably need to go in the map scripts.

Currently I just try to use the spawn rules in the XML for both bonuses and features. The ones for features are pretty limited though with mainly appearance chance (10000 is 100% chance) and the terrains they may spawn on.
So if those are set properly they should spawn.
Only for very few I use special code in the map scripts.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Currently I just try to use the spawn rules in the XML for both bonuses and features. The ones for features are pretty limited though with mainly appearance chance (10000 is 100% chance) and the terrains they may spawn on.
So if those are set properly they should spawn.
Only for very few I use special code in the map scripts.

Except 'we' only want seals and walrus to appear on land next to sea plots. You cant specify that in the XML so they have a zero chance of appearing and are placed in the post script as is goody islands.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Are you feeling any better?

If so you should really look at AIAndy's stuff so we can get all the maps done so strategyonly can release the next update. I told him to hold up today since it seems like we are really close to having a working map that has all new terrains, terrain features and resources on the same map.

 

[strategyonly]

fixed below, thx.

 

[AIAndy]

Ah, the scripts use their own map sizes and none are defined for giant and gigantic.
Fixed that now by using the standard map sizes defined in the XML instead.
Enjoy (mind that it takes a long time to generate very big maps with these scripts, need to do some profiling on them some time).

 

[Hydromancerx]

@strategyonly

Can you test out AIAndy's new file. My computer is not powerful enough to generate maps that big.

 

[AIAndy]

Except 'we' only want seals and walrus to appear on land next to sea plots. You cant specify that in the XML so they have a zero chance of appearing and are placed in the post script as is goody islands.

True, might be a good idea to add some of that to the XML so it works more generic (so at least the ones that remain with special code become rare) and the map scripts can then try to execute those rules.

I was thinking about:
Latitude restrictions (min/max)
Rainfall restrictions (obeyed only if the map script has an idea about rain)
Temperature restrictions (obeyed only if the map script has an idea about temperature)
Height restrictions (obeyed only ...)
Min distance between occurances (e.g. for oasis that would be 2)
Not at terrain borders (if true then that feature can only spawn if all surrounding terrains are valid terrain for it)
Next to river (already exists)
Appearance chance specific to each terrain
Spawns grouped (higher chance for appearance next to where it is already present)
Coastal
On fresh water
Next to sweet water lakes


Now that I think about it, what about moving all spawning information into a separate spawn rule xml and then use it for feature/bonus/ animal and barbarian unit spawning / feature growing and the like with the possibility to have multiple spawn rule entries for each.
Of course that is some effort to implement but it also offers quite some reusability for code.

So each spawn rule would have restrictions on the plot, restrictions on the time (or technology, civic, ...), chance information (also when and per what it applies) and then spawn or despawn a feature, bonus or unit (and display a message if one is set).

That would be quite a versatile system, usable from despawning a lonely jungle plot with a certain chance to spreading forest fire. Spawn a rebel slave when you have slavery in your cultural border. Or spawn a slimy coast feature if you have waste to sea with a certain chance. Despawn it with a random chance each turn.
Spawn waste on a river tile next to a city if you have waste everywhere civic and then it grows downriver.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@AIAndy

Could such a system in theory be used to simulate an ice age? Or I should say coming out of an ice age? For instance having the maps spawn normal. Then upon loading if prehistoric era is picked the terrains turn colder and drier. Then as you approach the Ancient Era the climate warms up back to the normal setting? Note this would be a very long term goal (if its even possible).

 

[AIAndy]

It is definitely possible. With a script or with the spawn rule system.
Would need a prereq for the spawn rules that they are only active when a certain game option is selected.
Then an XML tag that increases or decreases the chance for each adjacent terrain of a certain type.

Then you would make a rule that spawns tundra terrain next to tundra terrain before a certain year. The same for the other cold terrains. And then spawn rules for the other terrain types to eat hotter terrain types.

And after a certain year you have the opposite spawning rules.
So yes, even for such things that kind of system could be used.

Btw, the FfH2 mods have a game option that slowly thaws the map after gane start (script based I assume).

 

[Hydromancerx]

Awesome!

 

[rightfuture]

Check out this Mod that has work done to integrate seasonal changes of the map, probably using the Fall From Heaven Script.

World History Mod development thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=262780
by kevinman4404

He claims to have completed:
Wintermod/Icemod: 95%
on this concept.

This theory could be used for interesting seasonal changes (Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter); would love to see leaf changes in fall, around globe.
-as well as (Wet (Rainy/Flood) season / Dry) time of year for a precipitation script (could add El NINO like weather effect, Gulf Stream temperature changes)
-as well as (Ice Age/Global Warming) or hurricane frequency increasing models.
Maybe it could be collected as a
-Weather Mod
group of scripts - (I would love to see hurricanes, tornados, rain, thundrestorms, ice storms, dust storms, wind storms, Santa Ana like winds (spreads forest fires in dry areas) and other forms of interesting global and civilization affecting weather: (floods, fires, freezes, sinkholes, mudslides, earthquakes, etc.)

I would try to recruit Kevinman4404 to the cause of working on C2C, his mod ambitions are very similiar, and both have a good bit of separate work done. Kevinman4404 could use some C2C ideas/scripting on the World History mod to complete his goals. He has made a good bit of progress on his own - just check out his thread - and he is struggling to complete parts and make time.

@anyone interested - It would be nice to get some other mod makers interested in contributions to C2C , even if it is minor and occaisional (as they have their own distractions), A few comments /ideas from someone like Afforess Zappara, or Glider (who have already contributed in part) would be awesome dream team material; (I understand if they are focused elsewhere, would love just a thought here or there)

I love this Mod! Thank you everyone on the team! and everyone else who cares!
Love the new terrain / precipitation model ideas being implemented!

 

[AIAndy]

I just read that strategyonly wants to release the new version with the extra terrains soon (in two days or so).
At max I will be able to get several more map scripts working until then.
The main other thing to do is the bonus info xml to get the resources to spawn on appropriate new terrain. Who will do that work?

 

[strategyonly]

I just read that strategyonly wants to release the new version with the extra terrains soon (in two days or so).
At max I will be able to get several more map scripts working until then.
The main other thing to do is the bonus info xml to get the resources to spawn on appropriate new terrain. Who will do that work?

That is just what i was about to say, i have NO animals at all spawning on the new terrains, and the tundra/Permafrost's especially are blank??

I can hold off even more days if you like, as long as YOUR satisfied, is all that matters.

 

[philipschall]

Maybe this could get integrated later, but I would like to see some sort of desertification process happen. For instance, the middle east wasn't always a dry desert, it had gotten that way through mass deforestation and poor agricultural policies. Perhaps certain agricultural techs could alter the land based on player action. For instance, the advent of agriculture would have the land slowly turn from plains to desert, destroying the farm unless it's on a floodplain. Irrigation, crop rotation, biology, agricultural engineering, organic chemistry, and ecology would slow this process, and ecological engineering would bring it to a halt. Surrounding terrain would also alter the terrain degradation (forest in vicinity would slow it down, desert in vicinity would speed it up) This would produce (IMO) a more accurate world. Thoughts?

 

[Hydromancerx]

I just read that strategyonly wants to release the new version with the extra terrains soon (in two days or so).
At max I will be able to get several more map scripts working until then.
The main other thing to do is the bonus info xml to get the resources to spawn on appropriate new terrain. Who will do that work?

Well make sure that Perfect World at least is able to get all new terrains, features and resources. That means things like the missing rock formations, fossils, tar pits and mammoths.

---------

On aside note I had an idea for some more terrain features.

Quick Sand
- Slows Units
- Give Terrain Damage
- Graphic will use a re-textured tar pit to look like sand (I will try to make).

Hot Springs
- Slows Units
- Give Terrain Damage
- Graphic will use a re-textured tar pit to look like water (I will try to make).

Coral
- Slows Units
- Give Terrain Damage (Maybe)
- Gives food bonus
- Graphic will use a re-textured reef to look like coral and sponges (I will try to make).

Whirlpool
- Slows Units
- Give Terrain Damage
- Graphic (no idea what to do for this).

Sandstorm
- Spawns like Storms
- Slows Units
- Give Terrain Damage
- Graphic will use the one from Dune Wars.

Blizzard
- Spawns like Storms
- Slows Units
- Give Terrain Damage
- Graphic will use the one from FfH Age of Ice.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

To reduce confusion can we call the placement of things on the map something different to spawn and just use that word for changes during game play. So that units and volcanoes spawn during play but mountains and rivers are placed at map generation time.

The current spawning method for animals, and Neanderthals, is resource based. that is they only appear on a resource then wander about the map with some limits on where they can go. If you have huge tracts of land with out those resources then you will not have many animals.

Maps that use the Mercator projection fit nicely into a rectangle but greatly distort the reality the map is trying to convey. For example India and Greenland have about the same land area but a Mercator map shows Greenland as much larger. This is why many of the BtS maps have so much polar region as in SOs example.

 

[strategyonly]

Had this complaint about the new Terrains:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10878883&postcount=3370

 

[Hydromancerx]

To reduce confusion can we call the placement of things on the map something different to spawn and just use that word for changes during game play. So that units and volcanoes spawn during play but mountains and rivers are placed at map generation time.

Storms do "spawn" right? Or should it have another name?