New Transport Concepts

[sir_schwick]

Any city can instantly build a civilian version of the military transports for a gold cost (ie no shields). These transports are slightly slower, slightly less defence, zero attack, and can only load/unload directly into a friendly city. If you want to do a seabourne invasion, or want top-end sea transports, you still build them normally.

The part about civilizans transport is what i meant by merchant transport. AS for assault transports, planning the logistics is a nightmare for the non-MM oriented player. Having it just go into a pool that can be drawn on anytime needed has the same need for buildup but non of the position nightmare.

 

[rhialto]

I still think military transports should be built. Logistics should be a part of planning an attack, where you are sending troops into an area where there is no friendly infrastructure or population to utilize, but no for defensive posturing. Removing the need to prepare your boats entirely is akin to wanting infinite move rails.

 

[Deathgoroth]

How about NOT getting rid of the transport units, but instead make them as a non-necessary but convenient tool to traverse waters quickly. If you really really want to traverse quickly, build boats! But why spend a lot of resources or wait centuries researching just to pass across a small strait? This suggestion will not impair the value of logistic planning, and at the same time it satisfies both parties here.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

I'm not in favor of this. Having to build transports to move units across seas represents the idea that it takes time to build up a maritime infrastructure to launch a seaborne invasion. You should NOT just be able to pay extra gold to cross. Don't you think Eisenhower would have gladly paid 10000 gold to magically move the D-Day troops across the Channel? Do you guys have ANY idea of the effort that took? If anything, you ought to have to build MORE ships besides transports just for the privilege of landing on an enemy shore. Oil tankers, supply ships, mine clearers, engineering craft - all these ships and more are needed to successfully carry out an invasion, besides the combat ships and the troop transports.

I'm planning a mod right now in which I may actually reduce the number of units a ship can carry, up into modern times, just to make seaborne invasion and conquest harder. Today, massive sealift ships ARE capable of moving huge amounts of armor swiftly and efficiently, as is the case in Civ3. But a century ago this kind of capacity did not exist. Even moving around the troops of the time was tough, could you imagine trying to get 1,000,000 troops to China in a year back in 1900? And supply them?

 

[sir_schwick]

but logistics is ignored in Civ, so why enforce it in an annoying manner. I think RoN had the right thought, and my idea forces you to build up for amphibious invasions, but not transfers.

merchant vessels could only load/unload in cities, not on the shore. military vessels would be needed to land on beaches.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

That is a good point, and brings up an issue that has always bugged me, namely, having large ships that deploy landing craft and such is a concept that has been ignored. This may be clumsy in some circumstances, but in others it would be very neat. For example, Wyrmshadow just made a really neat Tarawa class Helicopter Assault Ship over at CDG. Now, what you should be able to do is have maybe 3 or 4 marines on there, and also a couple helis to airdrop them them in, but you can't. The game ignores the entire concept of the opposed landing. You can just run in and land 30-40 tanks on the beach and not take fire until the next turn. Be neat if you had to clear the beaches before you could land regular units. I don't know how you could model this, except maybe as SOON as you move a stack of ships into water enclosed by the enemy's border, you are halted and asked to leave. Then you cannot move any further in that turn, except to put more units onto the invasion stack. The AI would have to be programmed to reinforce all the reachable beach with units also, to oppose your landing.

I would prefer a different transport also, those little craft we have in civ3 don't look like they were designed for sailing across big oceans.

 

[sir_schwick]

Here is a defense model that should be adopted, anytime enemy units are 'spotted', units you fortified or still have MP can move into position. Units you do not move the first time can still be moved whenever another unit moves into range. Of course infinite RR for repositioning would need to be removed for this to not be unfair in modern. The only way to avoid a huge resistance is commiting enemy troops to another coast(like in OVERLORD).

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

Hmm, that gets back into the "turn within a turn" scenario, not so good. If the player is halted automatically once he goes within the AI's maritime borders, maybe approach to within 1 square of land, and then receives the halt message and cannot move in that turn to unload troops, then the AI gets its next turn to reinforce the beach, bring in arty to shell the boats etc., while if the AI is the one invading, then it is automatically programmed to stop at the same position also, and the Military Advisor will warn you of a large enemy presence offshore, allowing you to contact and ask them to leave or declare war. Thus you get a full turn to make preparations to ward them off. I would code the game to work this way only if there are transports with combat units aboard, or more than 1 combat vessel, this allows for the scouting/exploration contact needed and can be done by single vessels.