New unit ability/wonder ability request thread

[Nahuixtelotzin]

So please, can someone tell me whether someone from FIRAXIS is watching us or if you're in contact with them about this? Or is this just a "oh, it'd be great if..."-thread.

I need to know before starting to put more thinking energy on this.

 

[Mojotronica]

A modification of the rules for culture and corruption. Civs can build multiple Palaces (instead of just two) to control corruption, which simulate the efficiencies of local control in gov't. Thus it is possible to eliminate corruption if the player builds enough Palaces.

But there is a down side. Unhappiness, lack of cultural assimilation and the effect of rival Civs can cause the city w/ the Palace (other than the National capital city) to flip into a NEW civilization. Civil War.

The Provincial Palace generates no culture for the player in and of itself -- but generates a sort of negative culture that exerts constant pressure on the dominate Civ. City Improvements and Military units in the city generate culture for the controller, and every turn these numbers are crunched against each other to determine a percentage chance that the city will rebel -- and flip becoming the capital of a new Civ.

In effect, Provincial Palaces provide a great benefit but once built require the controlling player to expend resources to keep them loyal. They should be available to build w/ Feudalism* and the chance of their flipping decreases with Nationalism.

The new rival begins it's existence at the level of technology achieved by it's spawn Civ. Any units garrisoned in the city are replaced by a defensive occupying force (just as if the city had joined another Civ.)** The new Civ generated is randomly selected from the unplayed Civs. If all Civs are in play, the flip is cancelled.

Flipped cities take their cultural footprint with them, potentially causing adjacent cities to flip as well.

*Corollary -- once a Palace is built, it is built forever. Captured rival capitals each contain a free Palace that keeps corruption down, but also exert pressure on a large sprawling Civ to keep them happy, well-garrisoned and assimilate them quickly. To avoid this, the player would have to sack the rival capital upon capture.

**I like the idea of the new Civ getting a substantial military force upon spawning (which is different from what happens when a city flips based on cultural pressure from an existing rival Civ) but that would require more programming to make it work. Ideally it would be a number derived from the military strength of the spawn Civ -- a percentage of their military strength composed of a mixed batch of the units available with the latest technology.

Provincial Palaces would allow players who are frustrated with corruption to have an option to eliminate it, but would provide a built-in check on the expansion they encourage. The down side is manageable, but expensive enough to be challenging.

 

[stormbind]

I agree. Afterall, history shows that rebellions need the backing of military and that most succesful rebellions are led by the military from the start.

On the other hand, not sure I like this link with the palaces. IMHO, any city that has greater culture than the capitol city should be at risk of rebellion and more so the further it is from that capitol.

That would make it manageable and more difficult to keep track of when the Empire is large. Just an idea

 

[fervidflux]

I like the idea, but I think there would have to be many factors which affect it - Distance, Era, Type of Government, Certain Techs,etc. It's true, America is sort of a rebellion of England. England couldn't manage part of it's empire cause it was too far away, and lost the War of Independence. But as to the culture of the capital always having to be more powerful than any other city in the realm, I don't think it's so simple - look at Canada, for instance, Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal are way bigger than Ottawa, and nobodies going to be seceding anytime soon. Same with NYC and LA compared to WashingtonDC. Of course, these are very wealthy countries in the modern era, but you see what I mean...

 

[Healz]

I would like to see an option for the ability to have subversion agents that would go in and act on your instructions, carrying out tasks such as attempting assasianations of foreign leaders. It would also be better if there was an option and a natural tendency to deny their existence. However, there should be harsh penalties for use to discourage flippent use of these agents.

 

[Mithadan]

Pursuant to Smoking Mirror's "Ignore City Defence Bonus When Attacking: Flag" idea (page one of this thread), I think a "Cannot Attack/Defend Walled Defences: Flag" would be handy for Melée-type Mounted Units (i.e., Ancient and Medieval, primarily).

Chariots etc. aren't much use against walls, or from behind walls either -- unless they're hucking arrows over the walls. They'd have to dismount to scale the walls, batter the gate, etc. thus becoming non-mounted units suddenly. Mounted melée units would either have to wait for the walls to come a'tumbling down, or the gates to open -- attacking mounted units would then engage the defenders on the field, or defending mounted units would engage the attackers outside the walls.

'Course you wouldn't want to flag Missile-type Mounted Units with this...

 

[Mithadan]

This may be a lame idea nobody likes, or it may be possible already, but I know about neither...so:

Fast-moving units already have the option of withdrawing from combat, but they only withdraw if they're going to die and the defender isn't going to die (roughly speaking).

A unit flagged as a skirmisher, or a unit with an "action button" for skirmishing (similar to the "bombard" button) would attack a unit in it's range (usually adjacent, I guess) until the defender lost a given number of hit-points and then run away. This would make the most sense with units with a movement factor larger than typical foot units, or units using all terain as roads -- but then again, why can't standard units just scrap a little bit with each other?

Skirmishing wouldn't end the unit's movement for that turn (but it would use up that unit's attacks for the turn), unless the defending unit fails to lose the requisite number of hit points and the skirmisher is either destroyed or reduced to one last HP.

Sort of like intentionally non-lethal and relatively weak bombard units that can run away, harrassing the enemy before it engages the main force body. The AI often sends units that are not completely healthy (i.e., 4/5 HP or whatever) away from battle to heal. Skirmishers would be handy for chasing away bad guys, then. You wouldn't have to name a unit "skirmisher" and watch it fight until it killed the defender or nearly died trying. It would only nearly-die-trying to reduce the defender's hitpoints by one or two or whatever.

 

[Mithadan]

Inspired by Civ 2...

...remember when you had a stack of 20 units not hunkered down in a fortress, and was attacked? If the unit defending the stack died, then the whole stack fricking died. (Sort of like Hannibal's surround a larger force with a smaller one and kill'em all strategy.)

Well, that was a tad annoying, but I'm not super into the Civ 3 reversal of that either. How about a middle way?

Flag units to be "routable" or something, so that if the unit defending the stack dies, then all units in the stack susceptible to a rout (or whatever you wanna call it) retreat. So if you're defending your city, and attack this giant stack of units and succeed in killing one of them, then the whole stack moves away from your city and has to move back in again next turn.... That keeps them at bay a little, and may convince them to bugger off without having to kill every last one of them (or be killed in the process). If you're the attacker, it will also save your stack from being annihilated if it turns out that the city you're attacking has enough units inside to wipe you out. You have a chance to take off before your entire stack is obliterated.

I dunno, this might be super annoying for some, but it would be an incentive for things like siege-works (fortresses built adjacent to beseiged cities, like at Masada?) or seige-towers (a land-transport land-unit with a very high defensive value)...

Just a thought.

 

[Mojotronica]

Mithadan -

I think cities and fortresses should be defended to the last unit -- they should be hard to take -- but the retreat penalty could apply to units in the field.

 

[Mithadan]

Hmm, yeah. I guess if it's just a flag then it can be turned off unless someone wants to try out my wacky idea! Anyway...

 

[Mithadan]

I think cities and fortresses should be defended to the last unit -- they should be hard to take -- but the retreat penalty could apply to units in the field

More hmming... On the one hand, sure, you're right -- fortified place (cities with walls, fortresses, etc.) should be defended to the last man, including mounted melée units therefore. Hmm. Maybe if the flag was only "cannot attack walled locations" (having nothing to do with defending) then my idea could be saved. I still don't think charioteers scale walls or knights ram gates very often.

On the other hand, with my "cannot attack walled locations" flag, walled locations would be VERY "hard to take." You'd have to mass together bombard and foot units in order to take a walled location. No more screaming hordes on horseback flying down the steppes and toppling walled flood-plain cities like dominoes. Wrecking havoc on the field, no doubt, but useless (except for starvation-sieges) once folk take refuge in their thickly-walled redoubts.

If (and when) it did come down to the last man, we could get a message akin to "Phonecian ship caught in port!" -- for example, "German Ritter forced to fight on foot!" and their defence stats would decrease by something like 50%. Maybe the penalty could be variable somehow, to simulate the difficulty a knight in full heavy plate (i.e., needing a crane to get him on his horse) would have fighting on foot as opposed to a knight (etc.) more lightly armoured.

...I guess that's less a "toggle flag" and more a "graded walled-defence bonus/penalty flag." I wonder if the concept would be worth the problem coding it?

 

[Sims2789]

could someone create a Pimp unit. it could be a fast worker that can also attack( i know real Pimp's are weak and have a disgraceful job, but those suits are just so funny)
________
CHEAP PORTABLE VAPORIZER

 

[Sims2789]

we also need a "double damage and double defense versus obsolete units" flag because i hate it when my enemys attack my Modern Armor with 10 longbowman and win.
________
TOYOTA GR ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS

 

[Memnojokasel]

1.
Remake the Army unit to be buildable after a certain technology, with UU Army units, so that different civ have strengths at different times. I have found this allows for a more diverse and warring game, since AI sees the weaker opponents first. Weak civs at different times can build yourself to a world war, which I think is really rather fun. Also they could bey limited to different types of units and only certain numbers of them, with the units being able to use their seperate abilities (ie. Bombard) within armies and should be upgradable while in them.

Example (My arrangements):

5 Main (Foot) Unit
2 Defensive Unit
1 Archer/Bombardment unit
3 Cavalry Type Unit

Arrangement of Amries for different ages would change but during small changes in Techs, this could lead Peltast, Hoplites, Cataphracts being in an Army of Greeks, get upgraded by Phalanxes and the units being upraged would strengthen the Army in that area of expertise. Within a game on Diety level, this would be a HUGE difference, while also giving a tactical game to a strategic simulation.

This arrangement I have also found can closely represent Ancient Era militaries through to the Modern Era militaries.

2.
Make a unit thats available after building a harbor/trading post. Allow for the ability "Opens Trade Route", and send the unit on a patrol between two cities. Now, the availability of resources being passed through the trade connection depends on the survival of that unit.

Submarines have now a REALLY good use in the game, and Land Caravans are a viable land unit. Roads just make them move faster (and out of harms way!). Railroads would just make them twice as fast as roads do. Someone wanna play an economic war?

 

[Sinapus]

I'd like to see colonies provide resources (as in shields, food, and or commerce) sort of how the supply crawlers in SMAC could. Oh, and not vanish when inside a cultural boundary. Treat them as small villages that never really grow, and let them be placed on any land territory.

Mainly because I wanted to grab those gold resources way in the middle of a mountain range where no city radius could reach them.

(Edit, forgot to add subject line.)

 

[Mithadan]

I second your colony idea, Sinapus. Let colonies be something like a single tile of culture, maybe? I spose they might vanish if inside another culture's boundary, if your culture's too weak. But I hate it when I've got a colony, and an AI civ builds a city quicker than I right beside my colony and swallows up my colony. That should be legal grounds for a war, at least. Inversely, it would be cool if colonies could spontaneously turn into cities (if on city-sustainable terrain) if your culture was strong enough...(if culture actually could work this way...?) British colonies weren't static, after all...maybe your colonies could separate and turn into new civs...boy, this is a long shot, eh? Sorry for going off like this...

 

[Sinapus]

Something in place of a bombing run. The current air superiority missions are defensive in nature. Currently, the closest I've been able to get to making an offensive AS attack is to mod all the fighter units (except the Stealth fighter) so their defensive values are identical to their attack values, then send them on bombing runs close to airfields or cities where enemy fighters might lurk. Trigger an intercept and they have a better chance of shooting down the defending fighter. (F-15s now rule the skies. Muahahahah.)

Problem is, the AI probably won't do this, especially since the bombing abilities of fighters are not great, so some sort of button/order that the AI can emulate would be good.

 

[Sinapus]

Originally posted by Mithadan
I second your colony idea, Sinapus. Let colonies be something like a single tile of culture, maybe?

Mainly a place where you might want to gather resources, but not build an actual city. Some method of sending excess resources to and from cities would be nice too.

I spose they might vanish if inside another culture's boundary, if your culture's too weak. But I hate it when I've got a colony, and an AI civ builds a city quicker than I right beside my colony and swallows up my colony. That should be legal grounds for a war, at least.

Perhaps colonies should have a different that won't make them vanish unless they're specifically abandoned, or pillaged, or destroyed by bombardment. I wouldn't want them to become cities unless I send a settler to the same square and builds a city. While a colony, it really doesn't have the resources to build further, all it's doing is providing resources to send elsewhere. Sending a settler represents sending population and resources to make the place into a full-fledged town ready to grow.

Or something like that. While a colony is up and in a city's radius (friendly or not) it should count as being worked on and citizen's from that city won't be able to use it. Since colonies would only provide one type of resource at a time, this would make them less efficient than using laborers from a nearby city. Again, my concept was to use them to send resources from areas that you don't want a city, or can't get a city to yet, or can't get one at all (there's a reason why I mentioned mountains.)

(Edit: subject line again.)

 

[Sinapus]

Borrow some of the code for the SAM sites, let it have a bombard range of some sort (I'd use bombard range for AAA and SAMs, operational range is for fighters) and let us build units w/AAA ability. Either some sort of 'organic' defense for late-industrial and modern units, or dedicated units with lethal anti-air abilities and perhaps poor defenses.

 

[stormbind]

My two requests; they accompany each other.

Inspired by the need have a decent global government that still allows far away cities to build improvements. Idea loosely based on Dominions of the British Empire and associated Commonwealth of Nations.

Improvement: Dominion
Small Wonder: Commonwealth

My request thread with specifics of the concept. I do not think this falls within the abilities of Civ3 but maybe there is a master of modification who can figure it out?