New Version - September 9th (9/9)

[hokath]

Might as well write it here instead of opening a new thread: mined resources like amber just give +1 production. Most luxs give +2 to yields upon improvement. Intended?

 

[Gazebo]

Might as well write it here instead of opening a new thread: mined resources like amber just give +1 production. Most luxs give +2 to yields upon improvement. Intended?

You sure about that? They get tech bonuses and whatnot from buildings, etc. Also mines get intrinsic tech bonuses throughout the tree, whereas plantations do not.

G

 

[Finarvi]

Don't you think that making +1/2 mountains in your teritory would be better idea?

It wouldn't be much better (mountains couldn't be counted multiple times) but it'd be much more intuitive. And interesting (you would need to buy some mountain tiles, not just place cities close).

 

[Funak]

Don't you think that making +1/2 mountains in your teritory would be better idea?

It wouldn't be much better (mountains couldn't be counted multiple times) but it'd be much more intuitive. And interesting (you would need to buy some mountain tiles, not just place cities close).

Actually I'd really stick with the current system, being forced to buy extremely overpriced mountains is just stupid.

 

[hokath]

You sure about that? They get tech bonuses and whatnot from buildings, etc. Also mines get intrinsic tech bonuses throughout the tree, whereas plantations do not.

I think salt gives +1 food, +1 production from being mined

 

[Funak]

I think salt gives +1 food, +1 production from being mined

Salt does, nothing else does.
Main problem, as I've explained before lies in the fact that since mines (unlike plantations and quarries) actually provided a baseyield when built (probably because they can be built anywhere)
Because of that, mining-luxuries didn't get any extra yields from being improved aside from the yield from the mine. This was kinda fine until yields were added to plantations, quarries, pastures, camps and so on. Now they are instead behind one yield, but I'm guessing that changing that would require G to make a separate version of More luxuries just for CPP. Instead mines increase way more over time, and that seems like a reasonable approach.

 

[Atlas627]

I still think mines are pretty bad overall. They could use some "improvements" (see what I did there? )

 

[Funak]

I still think mines are pretty bad overall. They could use some "improvements" (see what I did there? )

I don't really agree, for example I think Jade might possibly be the best starting-resource in the game. Sure it initially loses out to most of the +3 food monopoly resources, olives, citrus and whatever else there is(truffles?). but with a monopoly(+3 culture) a workshop(+1 production) and a stone works(+2 production), the jade tile becomes extremely powerful.
However quite a few of the other mining-luxuries feels pretty weak, mostly the ones that provide +10% GA-duration, and probably because of the GA-duration.

 

[Finbez]

I don't really agree, for example I think Jade might possibly be the best starting-resource in the game. Sure it initially loses out to most of the +3 food monopoly resources, olives, citrus and whatever else there is(truffles?). but with a monopoly(+3 culture) a workshop(+1 production) and a stone works(+2 production), the jade tile becomes extremely powerful.
However quite a few of the other mining-luxuries feels pretty weak, mostly the ones that provide +10% GA-duration, and probably because of the GA-duration.

I would agree. Really any resource that's buffed by stoneworks is incredibly strong. Salt, Jade, Marble, Stone, all very strong and lead to 5-6 hammer tiles 50 turns into the game and even more later.

 

[Strigvir]

I still think mines are pretty bad overall. They could use some "improvements" (see what I did there? )

10p1g (versus 15p of manufactory) is "bad overall"?

 

[Funak]

I would agree. Really any resource that's buffed by stoneworks is incredibly strong. Salt, Jade, Marble, Stone, all very strong and lead to 5-6 hammer tiles 50 turns into the game and even more later.

Salt have a terrible(imho) monopoly bonus however, and that kinda balances the resource out . Marble is somewhat better.
Stone is a bonus resource, and out of the bonus resources it isn't one of the better ones. Imho all the Pasture based ones are better even if the stable comes from a later tech.

 

[Edaka]

In my current game with the newest version AI seems too passive at settling. A couple of civs that started on their own small continents had them only partially filled (about a half) in the renaissance era. One of them, Hiawatha, had about 4 cities and plenty of free space around including an unclaimed NW. Hiawatha! Maybe raging barbarians are to blame, but they never were such a big obstacle for AI before, at least in my experience.

 

[Funak]

Maybe raging barbarians are to blame, but they never were such a big obstacle for AI before, at least in my experience.

Civs in my game, without raging barbs are getting crushed by the 'attacking and fortifying on the same turn' barbs, so I'm guessing that's to blame. Probably even worse with raging barbs.

 

[Atlas627]

I did not say mining luxuries, I said mines. Mines are weak. Mined luxuries are great.

 

[Funak]

I did not say mining luxuries, I said mines. Mines are weak. Mined luxuries are great.

I don't really agree there either, mines do what they need to do, provide you with extra production for hills.

 

[Apostremo]

I don't really agree there either, mines do what they need to do, provide you with extra production for hills.

IIRC they're behind lumber mills at first, but have more yields long term? At least that was what i got from EUI. But maybe this was missing something like science from university.

 

[Funak]

IIRC they're behind lumber mills at first, but have more yields long term? At least that was what i got from EUI. But maybe this was missing something like science from university.

They are pretty much always behind lumbermills, but so are farms and tradingposts aswell. Imho you should never cut down a forest/jungle without a resource under it. Unless maybe you need a farm there to increase the synergy-bonus on nearby farms.

 

[Strigvir]

Lumbermills are basically weaker mines but with food.
And cut/not cut depends on the policies. Freedom + Imperialism spams farms everywhere, while Order + Industry spams mines and lumbermills.

 

[Gazebo]

Any conclusions on improvement changes for next version? This discussion seemed to go in circles.

G

 

[Apostremo]

Seems we can't even reach a agreement on the current state .

What should be the design for mine vs. lumber mill (without ressources)?

Should they be same strength? Balanced that one is better early, the other late game? Or should one be better than the other?