New Video Walkthrough is Up!

[TheMeInTeam]

Hi all, new Civ IV YouTube video is up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6u-bIZhukU&feature=PlayList&p=414EEAB9F8CDB010&index=0&playnext=1

Note that since it's based on the current immortal university game, it's a spoiler. I figured I'd put this outside of just the IU thread so that GD has a high-level walkthrough available.

Now if I could just beat deity with more than 5% odds .

Hope you enjoy!

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Terrific. Really great work, TMIT. I was surprised by how smooth the video and how clear the audio were. I think your commentary is what makes this so effective...nothing like getting access to all of the player's thoughts.

I just finished watching the first video (up to turn 40 or so) and I was surprised that you waited as long as you did to start a Settler. Is it worth it to produce so many warriors initially and spawnbust? Sure, growing to the happy cap is going to allow you to build the Settler faster, but it takes some time to get there first.

Turn 45 on Normal is something like turn 68 on Epic, and by then the AIs are well underway with their expansion (and I only play on Monarch). I guess I am wondering if growing to the happy cap is always optimal or if it can be a bit risky...

And yes, you play really fast.

 

[bestbrian]

'bout time you got the computer fixed.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I just finished watching the first video (up to turn 40 or so) and I was surprised that you waited as long as you did to start a Settler. Is it worth it to produce so many warriors initially and spawnbust? Sure, growing to the happy cap is going to allow you to build the Settler faster, but it takes some time to get there first.

Prior to DanF5771 teaching us about the spawnbust trick (back when we thought we had to reveal every tile), using warriors was difficult-to-impossible on immortal...you needed archery or a strategic resource ASAP (note Snaaty's guide for emp+ for example, though he's mostly talking about deity). Knowing the mechanics though, most deity starts are OK w/ warriors...

However, it's important to get them in the fog quickly. This allows them to fortify in defensive terrain (forests or better), allowing them to be odds-on vs archers and reducing the total #'s seen. Because of the start location on this map, it was even more effective than usual - the AIs killed the barb animals and I locked out spawns...never fighting even ONE battle despite barbs being on!

But to do that, you need to get them out reasonably quickly.

The other reason you want to grow is to work all your specials. In this case, there was only the plains cow that was a >4 yield tile. Early in the game, the top priorities are settling and working as many improved special tiles as possible and coming up with the commerce to pay for them.

The final reason to hold off on the settler is to get certain techs before you cut down on the slider. The less commerce you have, the more important this consideration becomes. Believe me, maintenance on immortal and especially deity hits HARD after 2-3 cities, if you don't have something other than the palace 8 base you can find yourself stuck on 20 turns to research pottery or 30 for writing on normal speed -----> that's a bad thing. You want those techs before you crash!

I was able to get away with some extra believe it or not due to the enhanced tech rate of having a riverside flood plain AND settling on riverside wine on turn 1. That 2 extra across all early techs makes a difference - even with sal's relatively bad starting techs I was able to throw a 2nd city deep into the jungle in part because I'd done enough research to that point to know I wasn't screwed.

Priority changes in extremely tight quarters though, you might want the strategic resource to rush, or you might need to chop like crazy just to get there in time.

 

[Jedi_Otis]

Wow..............Great.....................Thanks.

It's bad enough I stay up half the night playing Civ. Now I can stay up half the night watching others play.

No seriously. That was enthralling. I didn't didn't know such things existed.
I don't get out much.

One question I have, though. I think it was in episode 7, when you met up with Washington, you put him in the "wont declare at pleased" crowd.
did they change that in 3.17?

My guide is from 3.13 and it says he will. He's done it to me before, in quite memorable fashion actually, but that was a while ago and may well have been pre-3.17.

 

[fantsu]

Thanks man!
Still waiting for random Deity run.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

One question I have, though. I think it was in episode 7, when you met up with Washington, you put him in the "wont declare at pleased" crowd.
did they change that in 3.17?

My guide is from 3.13 and it says he will. He's done it to me before, in quite memorable fashion actually, but that was a while ago and may well have been pre-3.17.

His nowarprob is 70 at cautious and 100 at pleased...and it's been that way for a while. There are special circumstances that can cause them to declare at usually impossible dispositions:

1. They decided to war before going to pleased
2. AP forces it
3. They're one of the 3 leaders in the game (cathy, one of the french, forget who else) who can be bribed at a level where their no war prob is 100 (washington is not one of the 3)
4. The game is lying to you about disposition because you have a vassal they don't like, and are secretly averaging your disposition with that of your vassal.

 

[Jedi_Otis]

His nowarprob is 70 at cautious and 100 at pleased...and it's been that way for a while. There are special circumstances that can cause them to declare at usually impossible dispositions:

1. They decided to war before going to pleased
2. AP forces it
3. They're one of the 3 leaders in the game (cathy, one of the french, forget who else) who can be bribed at a level where their no war prob is 100 (washington is not one of the 3)
4. The game is lying to you about disposition because you have a vassal they don't like, and are secretly averaging your disposition with that of your vassal.

I'll take your word for it. The game I'm thinking about was a while ago and maybe he dropped to cautious a turn or 2 before and I hadn't noticed. I'm a lot more schooled at the inner workings of the game now then I was back then.

I also noticed that there is a discrepancy in the C4bts refguide. In one section it lists
Washington at declare at pleased, declare war on X at cautious. But in the other section, it lists his peace probability at pleased at 100%, cautious at 70, which is exactly what you posted, so the "declare at pleased" is obviously a mistake in the refguide and I'll have to check both sections from now on.


More on the IU game. I didn't miss something did I? There was not one single act of aggression by anyone that entire game? That's peculiar.

I think that means Alex, Monty, and Shaka should have a slot reserved for them in the next game.

 

[hexem3117]

GJ, TMIT. Watched every single one; my girlfriend's mad at me for "wasting" my afternoon. Cool stuff.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I think that means Alex, Monty, and Shaka should have a slot reserved for them in the next game.

If you've been following the IU series recently, you'll notice that may of the recent maps aren't that kind (though a couple thought this one was hard too). Last game as asoka, for example, the very first person you meet? Genghis Khan. They're all random-leaders for the AI slots, and I usually pick fractal or continents as the map (typically fractal)...though tectonics might be in the works soon since far fewer players complain about it @ immortal.

GJ, TMIT. Watched every single one; my girlfriend's mad at me for "wasting" my afternoon. Cool stuff.

Girlfriends and video games are like oil and water. One of them gets you dirtier than the other, but both can allow for some fun.

Wait...was that how that goes?

 

[L-Plate Ruler]

Thanks TMIT

It's good to see the though process of another player (especially one better than yourself) and comparing their choices against your own. Being a visual learner I find these clips a great learning resource.

 

[sophie]

Good job TMIT, although I would have loved to see a game showcasing rush buying or drafting...but it just wasn't in the cards I suppose...


Also, I noticed when you were tech trading, and the leader would offer you a few junk techs thrown in you would take them off. Was it to avoid WFTBTA or to slant the trades in their favor?

Next time you run into that in an LPC, can you explain your reasoning why?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I usually pull those techs off to avoid hitting WFYABTA too soon. WFYABTA caps are actually lower as difficulty increases, which is annoying because you want to do more trades! Getting AIs to friendly nulls the cap, but anyone pleased or below makes it matter.

Plus, you get bonuses on those techs and have enough beakers to overflow them anyway .

 

[dennisg]

Thanks again for a great walkthrough. I know they probably eat up a lot of time, but I learn an amazing amount from them, so please keep them coming...they are much appreciated

 

[ahmedhadzi]

Good job man, I watched first 5 last night. It looks like you are playing some RTS

 

[ljsviolin]

TMIT,
Thanks for another great walkthrough!

I have a question: when you're deciding to hit up the AIs for money, it looks like you're checking your diplomatic relations with them to decide whether to bother asking, is that it?

I thought there's a limit as to how often you can ask for money - are you somehow detecting that 'now' is an OK time to ask, or are you just looking to see if they'd be willing (Pleased/Friendly)?

Thanks again for the great ideas!

Larry Samuels

 

[TheMeInTeam]

IIRC AIs have a flat 5% chance/turn to forget a request, so every 20 turns or so you have an OK shot at them forgetting (they might not have but no point in waiting TOO long). You want the target to be at least pleased, because then it counts as a plea rather than a demand...and demands give -1 "you made an arrogant demand!"

If anything, I didn't beg ENOUGH, but it's such a pain heh.

 

[Verision]

WOW....
I'm a Monarch player, I'm really big on war and, before I watched this video, I had some pretty strong beliefs about what was required to win a game above Noble. You just showed me that many of those beliefs were nothing but BS.

-You went the entire game without a war.
-I've never won above Noble without rushing at least one AI (I thought it was almost a prerequisite to winning above Noble...)

-Your "garrison" in your capital was a sinlge warrior the entire game.
-I always have 2 of the newest defensive units in all my important cities (capital, GP farm, Wonder City, etc) and I always thought that if you don't have some sort of "standing army" that the AI would DOW, no exception.

-You were last in score the entire game
-If I'm not at least in the middle of the pack by the ADs then I assume the game is unwinable.

-You didn't use a single spy the entire game
-I always try to have at least 1 spy in every civ for counter espionage and I'm always worried if I don't

-You often took less techs in a trade than an AI was willing to give you and you didn't seem even slightly worried about not being the tech leader, or at least the leader in one branch of tech
-If the AIs get a tech lead on me, then I start getting really worried and usually end up DOW on the AI so I can sue for peace and get rid of their tech lead.

I could go on, but I won't. VERY informative game. You've banished more than a few of my misconceptions about this game. Maybe I'll even try one of these "peaceful" games some time....

 

[gskyes]

I've watched up to segment 10 so far, and I have one big question. Why haven't the AI come and declared war on you yet? Your army is mostly warriors and spearmen, and without BUG running or seeing you check the demographics, I can only assume that your power rating is way below them.

I usually play 2 levels beneath you (prince) and I still have to be cautious and maintain an army to ward off potential threats, or they start demanding every penny I have, even at 0.9 relative power.

I know you are checking them for WHEEORN, and that's good. But this AI pacifism cannot be from good diplomacy alone. Of course you are safe from Willem, and Hatty usually isn't a threat. But I'm pretty sure Qin was cautious most of the game, and Washington or Bismarck can't be trusted either. If this were me playing, a stack of knights would have already shown up at my door by now.

Please understand I'm not questioning your strategy or ability, just the seemingly odd AI behavior.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Pangaea=they can't attack from the sea. If there is a land route, they are coded to attack on land.

So he basically had to worry about Will alone. People like Qin and Washington have to cross 3-4 other AIs to reach him. It's highly unlikely for an AI to even consider a declaration with no shared border in the first place. Then probably there's someone on the way with no open borders, so they simply can't attack you.

Will is tricky because he can declare at pleased and doesn't have an early fav civic, but Hat was his worst enemy for different religion, so no problem there. They was worst enemies in my game as well.