New Warlords Civ Info from Ign.com - 7/6

[Gogf]

I don't think you're giving the Celts enough credit. They have a nice trait combo, and their musketmen will be able to get Guerilla II along with another promotion. Through in the Charismatic bonus, and they can get Guerilla II and either Medic or an anti-unit promotion.

Their late game gunpowder units will even be able to start with Guerilla II and Woodsman II if the Celts get the pentagon. These would make great choking units in a late era start game!

 

[Pete2006]

Carthage's traits and special building look amazing. I guess that's why they got a crappy UU. I'd much rather have a UU that can get city raider promotions.

I was really hoping one of these new civs would get a grenadier based UU.

Korea's UU with +50% v archers would be much nicer but probably too powerful. Still pretty badass as it is. That catapult can be the main attack unit. I would love to play Korea as well. Also would the catapult benefit from the protective trait or just actual artillary? With this catapult with drill 2 city raider 2, I could dominate very fast.

 

[Giolla Phadraig]

carthage seems ridiculusly overpowered. Charismatic and financial are the two best traits in the game. Numidian cavalry will be able to beat almost anything in the field, and their special harbour will greatly increase there income.

Agree completely, This trait combination almost seems broken. We'll have to see if Charismatic gets nerfed or not.

 

[Zorn]

Looks like the "wich is the worst UU"-competition will get a lot tougher.

 

[Thyrwyn]

The Mongols are going to *hate* the Zulu.

Also, the benefit from the Zulu Ikhanda is worded very poorly. As I read it, it costs 10 extra hammers than a regular barracks, but reduces "city" maintenance by 20%. Is that how you read it?

Remember, too, that Shaka is Aggressive: all hammers are doubled when building barracks (or Ikhandas).

 

[Instant_Cereal]

Holy hell, Carthage is way overpowered. Financial and charismatic are already some of the best traits. And the UU? Numidian Cavalry wasn't even effective against infantry. It won't be until you get elephants that you can effectively combat Carthage. It looks like they designed Carthage to specifically counter Rome, except Carthage looks like it just shot up to being one of the best civs in the game. Oh well, tell ya one thing, Carthage isn't going to like the Zulus.

 

[ChrTh]

Ottomans win this, hands down. "Aqueduct" gives +2 ? Are you kidding me? Ladies and Gentlemen, our dreams of Infinite City Sprawl have been returned to us ...

 

[binhthuy71]

Hoping that the existing civ's will get retooled a bit. As it stands, current powerhouse leaders would be stomped flat early in the game.

I'm only playing on Noble but it seems to me that the new Civs/Leaders will be like having Toku and Monty on steroids in every game. Making the new guys more susceptable to culture flipping might be a neat way to balance things out a bit.

 

[Palantir30]

Ottomans win this, hands down. "Aqueduct" gives +2 ?

My thoughts exactly. One building gives 2 health and 2 happy? Winner.

Or, it would be until you consider the Financial + Charismatic dream team.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Hoping that the existing civ's will get retooled a bit. As it stands, current powerhouse leaders would be stomped flat early in the game.

I'm only playing on Noble but it seems to me that the new Civs/Leaders will be like having Toku and Monty on steroids in every game. Making the new guys more susceptable to culture flipping might be a neat way to balance things out a bit.

I don't think its anywhere near that bad. Some of these leaders are underwhelming, some are strong, so it balances out. I don't think people will only choose the new civs and can still be competitive with the old ones.

I think some of the old leaders will get new traits, since a few got taken away from them and now everyone will get some unique buildings (maybe the civs with bad leaders and uus will get good buildings). So we still have to wait to see who gets considered "the best".

 

[ChrTh]

BTW, I think y'all are mis-reading the Celtic UB powers. It doesn't give Guerilla I to units built in the city with it, it gives any defenders in the city Guerilla I in addition to normal Walls defense.

 

[Louis XXIV]

These hill-forts replace Walls in Celtic cities and will offer a free Guerilla I promotion for any unit built in that city.

Doesn't look that way to me.

 

[ChrTh]

Doesn't look that way to me.

I stand sit corrected. I like my interpretation better though.

Still seems useless unless you predominatnly play rocky maps. I think I may avoid Celts entirely (unless they're random).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well few thoughts,
Celts and the UU/UB conflict (as was pointed out Guerilla isn't available to Melee usually, so "there is no conflict")

The Carthaginians basically got themselves an Axeman UU... an Axeman with Flanking, 2 movement and needing Horses instead of Metals [no City Raider Capacity though..and at a higher tech]

Same with the Koreans... If they have Ivory, a Construction beeline should be reasonable.

Here's to wondering about Caesar's, Hyana's, and Genghis's new traits... Imperialist for all of them might Work.


also interesting is new 'Favored Civics'
Caste, OR, Vassalage
so far (of the non-default ones) that leaves

Emancipation, Slavery, Serfdom
Bureaucracy, Free Speech, Nationalism
Environmentalism
Pacifism


The last two are so specialized that I don't think they'd be good for any 'Favored Civic'. But the others would all be interesting (a Leader that maintains Slavery or Bureaucracy the whole Game)

 

[night_f3]

The Mongols are going to *hate* the Zulu.

Also, the benefit from the Zulu Ikhanda is worded very poorly. As I read it, it costs 10 extra hammers than a regular barracks, but reduces "city" maintenance by 20%. Is that how you read it?

Remember, too, that Shaka is Aggressive: all hammers are doubled when building barracks (or Ikhandas).

I was wondering too about the quote "Zulu warriors are trained at the Ikhanda, which replaces the basic Barracks. It costs an additional ten resources to build the Zulu Ikhanda but it's worth the investment as it benefits from a 20% reduction in maintenance."

I thought there was a maintenance cost per city, not per city building in Civ 4. Your explanation makes more sense.

Anyone concerned about the Ottoman Jannisaries, musketman with 25% attack bonus against archers, cavalry and melee units. Ottoman players can really choose to load up on their UU to attack others.

And their +2 health and +2 happiness providing aqueducts really make up for the somewhat moderate Expansive and Organized traits.

Vikings have excellent synergies with their traits (Aggressive & Financial) and UU (which can pass its amphibious trait to sucessor units). Their early UB will help them rule the seas, especially on archipelago maps, with effectively double movement points once they circle the world.

Carthage with Financial and Charismatic and their UU with +50% bonus against melee units (spearman is an annoyance but not a killer anymore) means early uber-domination.

Dont really understand the reason for Guerilla Celtic swordsmen, but others look pretty okay so far..

 

[Mad2rix]

On a bit unrelated note, I wonder what sort of new diplomatic and soundtrack music Firaxis would be planning to insert in this expansion pack?

I must say that Korean H,wacha is as strong as axemen, which I usually build for early wars if copper was available.

I wonder if standards Knights get 50% bonus against Trebuchet? Same thing went for Horse Archer > Catapult : Cavalry > Cannon

And another thing, I always thought Viking Berserker might get a strength of 10 just like in Civ III, however it might prove to be devasting and unbalancing so it's probably okay to have extra city raider bonus.

For the Celtic Gallic Swordsman, I rather let them have extra 1 strike as their guerilla ability might prove useless on Great Plains map except on the left side.

If I had a chance to get Warlords, then I'll probably play as Carthage first on Prince / Monarch difficulty if they proven to be powerful than the other civs.

 

[ahab_in_rehab]

Nope, guerilla II and woodsman II give double movement in hills/forest. A warrior with guerilla II will be able to move two tiles per turn if the first tile is a hill.

S**T really? I never knew that and have never bothered giving woodsman/gureilla II to anything but a recon unit thinking that half of the beneift of the promotion would go to waste! Thanks for the heads up!

WRT To the Celts,
The Leader traits do not seem too bad and charismatic will work nicely with the UU/UB (and can you imagine trying to take a Celtic hill city if Brennus was protective as well - hell your best chance would be to camp outside for 2000years and wait for the damn hill to erode) but I still think the bonuses both unique assets bring overlap too much. If you happen not to occupy a particularly hilly part of the map then both your UU and UB are useless. I think Firaxis wanted to go for a strong Synergy to make up for average bonuses but forgot that this would leave the celts looking very sorry indeed if they happened to start in the middle of the steppe.

And Carthage does look terrifying as well Fin/Char/Cothon and a not at all shabby UU. I'm very interested to see what the other UBs are going to do, I wasn't too fussed about them before today thinking they were just going to give + 10% over what the basic building would do but I'm quite impressed by the variety and strength of the bonuses they bring. Looking forward to more info!

 

[Louis XXIV]

I stand sit corrected. I like my interpretation better though.

Yours makes more sense, but makes it dramatically less useful.

Still seems useless unless you predominatnly play rocky maps. I think I may avoid Celts entirely (unless they're random).

I'd probably play them for the traits more than anything else.

 

[night_f3]

Thansk for the news update.

And I wouldn't count on existing leaders' traits being changed.

Agree, taking a look at leaders (new and old) sharing same traits,

Ceasar: Expansive and Organized. Starts with Fishing & Mining.
Mehmed II: Expansive and Organized. Starts with Agriculture & The Wheel.

Capac: Agressive and Financial. Starts with Agriculture & Mysticism.
Ragnar: Agressive and Financial. Starts with Fishing and Hunting.

Genghis: Agressive and Expansive. Starts with Hunting and The Wheel.
Shaka: Agressive and Expansive. Starting technologies not known.

Add in the differing favorite civics, UU and UBs, there are enough differences to let two or more leaders share a similar set of traits.

 

[turquoiseninja]

All you people who keep saying that Carthage is overpowered, just remember that we haven't seen the effects of the UB's for excisting civs.

And my philosophy is that although we can (and should) contemplate about how powerful these new civs will be, the only true way to know how they work out in the actual game is to play the actual game. (Well, expansion, but yeah same difference)