Newbie help!!! on explaining the search output!

[deanx0r]

Well, I read the manual, looked everywhere I could on the forum but couldn't figure out how tech research does really work. I thought it would work just as growth or shield, but there isn't any indication of the "cost" of a tech except for the number of turn to wait for the money invested.

What is the used of libraries and other universities or research lab? It is said that they increase the science output, but alhought I completed search and universities in all my towns, I couldn't get a new tech with less than 4 turns :/ What kind of output do they really increase? Tech search seems to be based on a fixed number of turns and not on an effective cost of research point that search facilities produces (there is no indicatioin anywhere of that cost, therefore makes me wonder what is the real purpose of some wonders supposed to doubloe the search output such like newtons university).

Oh yeah another supra newbie question a bit off topic: is the AI unfair? I played a game where I was sure to have completely annihilated the german in the early game (middle age I think) and a few turns later found out that they expanded at the other side of the Earth! like nothing happened. Doubt in my mind, I restarted a new game and revealed the whole map to see how the AI develop, went on the russian who has only one time at that time, razed the town to realize that that town respawned very far away from me nearby other civs.... WTH??? I am was playing with the lastest patch (1.17f), chieftain level (told you I am a newbie). It has been really bothering since the beginnning and I would be somehow very disgusted if the AI cheated such a way in the game... how you confirmed players deal with it?

 

[Beamup]

As for research, as a matter of fact it is just a number of beakers per tech. This can be modified by things such as how many other civs have learned it (if you're the last civ to research it, it'll be cheaper). However, there is a hard floor at 4 - it is impossible to research more quickly than that, unless you edit the rules. Libraries and such increase the beaker output of the city they're in, getting you closer to the 4 minimum or allowing you to reach it with a higher tax/entertainment rate (though personally I have never used entertainment, I just don't need it)

In terms of cheating, yes the AI does cheat to a certain extent. Not much on Chieftain, though. What you describe is simply the fact that destroyed civs will, in the early game, respawn elsewhere... and if you destroy them again, they're gone. I believe there's a preference to turn this off.

Oh, and just so you know - the game would be way, way, way, too easy if the AI didn't cheat. No game AI is anywhere near as smart as even a moderately experienced human player. This is simply a limitation of current technology, and is unavoidable. Thus, the AI is given certain advantages (i.e. cheating) to make it able to compete with humans. So, think of it this way - you're smart enough that the AI HAS to cheat in order to provide a good game. Kind of like spotting somebody a knight in a game of chess.

 

[Zouave]

AI cheating is NOT acceptable - at least as it is in Civ III.

If I played Chessmaster I would not appreciate it if suddenly the AI allowed its bishop the powers of a queen. Rules are rules.

In Civ III, the AI not only knows too much and conspires with other civs secretly against the human, it breaks its own rules repeatedly.

When I see a fleet of AI ocean-going galleys, before magnetism or navigation, and while I have the Lighthouse, heading towards an island of mine with an iron supply it is nonsense. It is one thing for the AI to know about that island (it shouldn't; I swapped no maps), but to then have a fleet of galleys that never sink in the ocean is too much.

Secret conspiracies and additional knowledge is one thing, but breaking its own rules is not acceptable.

 

[Hurricane]

Science work this way:

* Your cities produce a number of 'coins' from the tiles you work. You can see that each worked tile produces a number of food, shileds and coins. How many depends on the terrain, improvements on it and your government (as well as some civ traits and wonders).

* The total number of coins is then divided into tax, science and luxury. Say your capital produces 10 coins. If you have science set to 60% and taxes at 40% (on the domestic advisor screen, F1), 6 of the coins will be put on science, and 4 are turned into gold that goes into your treasury.

* If you now have a library in the city, it will increase the science beakers with 50%, from 6 to 9.

* The total number of beakers are added up, and this amount is added to your total research effort. As soon as this number is higher than the number needed to discover the tech, you discover it.

* No tech can be discovered in faster than 4 turns or slower than 40 turns. If you have no beakers, however, you will never discover it.

* The amount of beakers needed to discover a tech depends on the tech (the base number can be seen in the editor, but as a general rule, the more advanced the tech, the more beakers are needed).

* The amount of beakers needed is also affected by how well known a tech is in the world. It requires more beakers to be the first to discover a new tech than to be the last one (the difference can be substantial).

* Depending on the difficulty, the AI needs more (chieftain, warlord), equal (regent) or less (emperor, deity) beakers than the human player to discover a tech.

Hope this helps.

 

[planetfall]

I had a similar problem in eliminating the Germans. Blew away the last city and then 2 turns later they were growing. Here's is what I noticed:
1- a few turns before going to lose last 1-2 cities, the AI tosses off a settler
2- new city is created just outside zoom in map view.
3- if don't watch, soon you have another AI working.

How to verify kill is final kill
1. F8,F8,F8
Every turn check score, if score is higher then somewhere something is still growing. {you do note score from last turn, right?}

2. Check mini map
Look for new spots of light where new city was
planted

3. Scroll from last 2 cities and examine all AI members, especially look for settler pairs, you need to see the settler on the way to a new location. I found while I was focusing on the last 2 cities and removing them, the german AI settler pair was walking across the continent and timed so a new city was planted 2 turns after I thought I had elimined the germans. Tricky, but not AI cheating. Actually they did this twice. When done
to 2 cities sent out 2 pairs one directly east and another directly southwest. After finding the one in the east, I found the second hidding in the jungle to the south.

 

[lawren8]

Originally posted by Zouave

When I see a fleet of AI ocean-going galleys, before magnetism or navigation, and while I have the Lighthouse, heading towards an island of mine with an iron supply it is nonsense. It is one thing for the AI to know about that island (it shouldn't; I swapped no maps), but to then have a fleet of galleys that never sink in the ocean is too much.

I don't think the AI is cheating here, just taking a risk. Remember that galleys have a fairly large chance on not sinking in the ocean

I send my galleys out in the ocean all the time long before magnetism/navigation and long before the AI. I might lose 2-4 to the ocean, but the rewards of finding the other continent far outwiegh the loss of a few galleys.