Newbie with questions.

[suribure]

So I am new at the game and just started out. So after going through many many maps just to get a better head start for a map that I could use for some training in the basics I finnally got one. Later on I found it was an pretty large Island. Now, I have some problems.

The situation :

0. I am playing Vanilla Civ 3.
1. The Romans were also on the continent, so I traded alphabet with them. However, they were starting to disrespect my borders wanting to put a town in a small itty little bitty space that was still left outside of my borders. ( they had 3 towns at the time.) So I destroyed them and razed their cities, as they were just wrongly places and wrongly build.
2. I have run out of land to build on and have only one connection too another island which has Zulu and the Germans on it.
3. I am in the middle ages now after changing in republic and getting currency the next turn.
4, I used the random setting so it is a mystery to me how big the map is.
5. I am the Russians and because of that with the coming of the new age I got monotheism.

So it has popped up before but my biggest problem is this =

I have nothing left to build in the game at the moment except for wonders and troops of all kinds. However the thing is that I promised myself to listen to the war academy and not go wonder crazy so I am only allowed to build 1/2 wonders in a game until reagent where I might be able to spread it out a bit better? Also all the tiles in my Island are now spoken for because I had a settler and worker pump going on.

So the problem that I am having now is what do I do with all these cities? I mean I cannot set them all to wealth can I? It just feels like a complete waste of turns to do that. But I do not want to build military units anymore as I do not want to go to war straight away. Also one more thing the other Island is cut of from the rest of the world.

So any tips?

 

[The Professor]

First of all, Welcome to the forums!

Second of all, if you don't yet know the map size, or any other civilizations, you should be building boats to go explore. Some of your boats may sink, when trying to cross open water, but that's okay--just build more.

You didn't say what kind of victory condition you were looking for, but if you're going for a military victory, you need to know where other civilizations are, so you can kill them, and if you're looking for a space or diplomatic victory, you need to find the other civ's so you can trade with them. Regardless, you want to know where they are.

 

[Snarkhunter]

Welcome to the fora!

Posting a save for the experts to look at would probably be the best thing at this point. However, a few questions:

1) Is your territory fully improved? Everything mined, irrigated, roaded? (At least the stuff you are working in your cities.) If not, do you have enough workers? rule of thumb is 1.5-2 workers per town, to give you a good workforce. If your workforce is too small, putting cities to building workers will give you something to do for a few turns.

2) Is the population of your cities working the right tiles? Are there any clowns you can put to work or change into more useful specialists?

3) What VC are you going for? If conquest or domination, you need units; if you have enough units, you need to attack something. If stuck on an island, you need boats to convey the invaders to another island. At this point, you only have galleys available most likely, so you will need a lot of them to move your forces; set your coastal towns to building those. (You could wait until caravels & some such. In which case, you want to get to the techs to the right of the tree ASAP & that means optimizing your empire for research. See if you can set some of the population to scientists to help out.)

I understand about wonders, but I find Leo's very useful for conquest/domination; I do a lot of upgrades of artillery alone. So if you haven't built it yet & it looks gettable, I'd go ahead and build it--it's almost the only wonder I ever bother with before the IA any more.

If you really are in a spot where there's nothing you need to build, based on the VC you are trying for, I'd say go for research: adjust the sliders, turn citizens into beakerheads, figure out when to start pre-builds for Copernicus & Newton so you can glom those GW's the first turn they are available to you. Don't forget to check the AI's for tech trades & if you haven't met all of them, get some boats into the water & start exploring. It's worth losing a dozen galleys, just to get one safely across the ocean & meet some AI's you haven't before; that's how you become a tech broker in this game.

Best of luck. The experts can help you even more than I, once you post a save for them.

kk

Edit: Of course, someone beat me to the punch!

 

[vmxa]

Regardless of anything, you need to get boats out and find the rest of the world. You cannot travel safely in sea tile, until Astronomy (that may not be the case in vanilla too long ago to remember). You cannot travel ocean until Nav or Mag (againt not sure about vanilla).

If you have Lighthouse you gain some protection from sinking. Anyway even at the risk of sinking boats, send them out to discover the world and meet others.

If you wish to know who is in the game use F10.

If you want to know the map size you can use Seedbeast, it will give the nations and the map settings, nothing else.

On islands I prefer to pack in towns to get as many as possible, within reason, unless it is a massive island. CxxC and in places like tundra CxC.

It is likely that all the decent islands are occupied by now, so I would prepare to take land from my neighbors. To that end, I would probably get a war going with someone that can reach me now.

This is so that will land units fo rme to kill and attempt to get a leader. I want at least one army to cover my landing party.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

Get a city on the German/Zulu Island if you can without going to war. How far and accessible is the AI island? It's pretty tough to support a distant war until you at least have galleons. Otherwise sit back and trade, do research , build you treasury, and build your units for when you will attack. If you just want something to work on I bet you could fine tune some cities for population or production.

 

[vmxa]

If you sit around till you have galleons, you will be hard pressed to take down an island, unless it is very large. They will have been making units all the this time and have plenty to respond to your landing and they will have gotten ahead of you in tech.

 

[UK_John]

Early in game and I lose a city to a French horsemen unit. His only unit. I attack with two spear units straight away, first one brings the French unit down to red, when my second spear unit moves in the same turn the French unit has full strength! (My town didn't have a barracks), this meant he beat my second spear unit. As the turn came to an end, I saw a foot unit leave the newly taken city.

This is playing the game on the easiest level. So are the French special, or does the AI just cheat - even on the earliest level?

 

[Ataxerxes]

Early in game and I lose a city to a French horsemen unit. His only unit. I attack with two spear units straight away, first one brings the French unit down to red, when my second spear unit moves in the same turn the French unit has full strength! (My town didn't have a barracks), this meant he beat my second spear unit. As the turn came to an end, I saw a foot unit leave the newly taken city.

This is playing the game on the easiest level. So are the French special, or does the AI just cheat - even on the earliest level?

Hard to tell without more details or a save. I do have a couple of thoughts.

Why are you attacking with spears? They are defensive units, 1-2-1. I'd attack with a horseman or an archer. (I assume you have no swords). If you're attacking another city, the spears should be defending the square you have attackers on. They're not attackers in their own right.

Also, you only see one unit in a city, no matter how many units are in that city. Therefore, it's entirely possible he had two horsemen and a foot unit in that city, or even more units. The French aren't special, although I think they're a pretty good civ. There are a few cheats, mainly in trading with the AI, but this isn't one of them.

 

[CommandoBob]

The situation :

0. I am playing Vanilla Civ 3.

Which version of vanilla? The last patch was to version 1.29f. If you are playing with anything earler than 1.2 (?), those saves cannot be opened by later versions of the game.

I started out with PTW and missed the first versions of vanilla, so I cannot tell what all changes were made. PTW added some new units and civs, and then Conquests made some big changes for SGLs and Armies, plus adding more civs and Great Wonders.

 

[UK_John]

Hard to tell without more details or a save. I do have a couple of thoughts.

Why are you attacking with spears? They are defensive units, 1-2-1. I'd attack with a horseman or an archer. (I assume you have no swords). If you're attacking another city, the spears should be defending the square you have attackers on. They're not attackers in their own right.

Also, you only see one unit in a city, no matter how many units are in that city. Therefore, it's entirely possible he had two horsemen and a foot unit in that city, or even more units. The French aren't special, although I think they're a pretty good civ. There are a few cheats, mainly in trading with the AI, but this isn't one of them.

The point wasn't that the Horseman beat a Warrior and Spearman to take the city, it was about how on trying to re-take the city I got the horseman down to red and he went back up to full green before the next spearman attacked. As you quite rightly say this was early on in game and I had no swordsman yet. But what units were involved are neither here nor there. It's about that French unit going from red to green in the same move, as though it was two units when it wasn't. And given horsemen use 2 moves, that foot units would have travelled at a different speed and I would have seen it if it had been approaching the city with the Horseman.

 

[suribure]

Thanks for all your replies. Next time I will include save as well. The thing was I read some of the post and took the advice and worked it. I am only on chieftain so it was not so hard to take Germany and Zulu out with the 20 swordsman that I had. I mean they thought they could defend their cities with simple warriors and spearmen. So after Zulu and Germany were out I started to focus full force on technology and trading. I soon found the other races. But in chieftain it seems they are really behind in tech. I mean I was already in the third age while they were just going slowly in the second one. So now I am in the third age and doing pretty well I think. Soon, I will be able to replace the men that guard my cities with infantry.

 

[CommandoBob]

It's about that French unit going from red to green in the same move, as though it was two units when it wasn't. And given horsemen use 2 moves, that foot units would have travelled at a different speed and I would have seen it if it had been approaching the city with the Horseman.

No, Ataxerxes had it right. For what you describe, there were two Frenchies in the city, which is not unusual. Normally the AI will garrison cities with two to three units, more if it is the capital. However, the game will only show you one defender at a time. If you want to know how many units are in a city before you attack, you must pay some cash and investigate a city, using the espionage screen. Or use catapults to wear down each defender.

Foot units do not reveal only other foot units and horse units do not reveal only other horse units. Any unit can push back the fog and reveal any kind of military unit. However, you can only identify what is in a stack of units if they are outside of a city.

You can always post a save of the game before and after your attack to prove your point.

 

[suribure]

Ok, I am back I finished my first game, By winning the space race. I have a question thought about something else. This morning (it is afternoon now.) I build a great library, well I focused on getting it while neglected other tech. So I was once again on an Island all alone this time, so I had not met anymore.

So how does the great library exactly work, as it seems I got no techs at all when it finished. Does this mean it works when you meet at least 2 civs or more?

 

[Nergal]

Great Library only works if you know 2 or more Civs with a tech you dont have. Its not really worthwhile until Regent or higher when the AI can get a lead on you in Techs.

On the French city question it looks like the French rushed a unit in the city, and there is an AI fiddle where they can do things in between turns so you dont get to see it. If you want a real AI cheat, I killed the Maya in a game, ie took their lat town, they respawned building another town which then spat out a spear thrower spearman and a settler the next turn and had 2 spearmen in their town. 5 units including a settler from a size 1 town!!!! Luckily my AC army sorted out the explorers and 5 Ac took the town without losses.

 

[Aabraxan]

I think Nergal's hit the nail on the head on both the GLib and the French situation. The rule on the GLib is that it gives you "any tech known to two or more AI civs that you know" up until it goes obsolete. Note that you can get techs well beyond Education, as long as you get them on or before the IBT on which you learn Education.

And yeah, there are some oddities in the turn order that lets the AI rush things when it seems like they shouldn't. I don't understand it well enough to explain it, but I'm guessing that: (1) there was more than 1 horseman in the town; and (2) the AI rushed the warrior.

Nergal, in the game you mention: (a) did you have respawn on? and (b) what level was it? As you know, I'm playing a game with respawn on, and I'm wondering if you played at a high enough level that the AI might respawn with an extra settler.

 

[Nergal]

Hi Aabrax .. it was only at Regent. I had AC running around everywhere cos of barbs and the new Mayan city literally just appeared. The spear chucker got 2 squares from the city when I saw him and the spear/settler must have been a turn behind him. He must have respawned with a settler, I cant see any way that he could have rushed more than a spearman and that would be a stretch. I dont really know the technicalities of respawn but the spot they appeared at was 50% tundra, no lux or resources nearby so I dont think the AI would have sent a stack of troops to settle it. It was a good 15 tiles from their original territory too.

On the French town it is conceivable that a horseman snuck in the city from the fog of war.

 

[Aabraxan]

Well, hmm. AI doesn't get freebie units at Regent, so that doesn't explain it. I don't really know the technicalities of respawn, either, but I think it's possible that the AI respawned where it did, just because it was the only available spot.

 

[Nergal]

Thats what makes me think it was a respawn rather than a settlement. I'm not sure if I have a save of around that time to look at but the terrain wasnt special, BG but no wheat or cows so growth couldnt have been phenomenal. Its sort of possible it was just lost in FoW until I killed the other city which was definitely showing a capital flag.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

Like you said, the library will give you techs that 2 or more other civs you have met know.
I had a game where I was on a continent with 1 other civ and was falling further and further behind on tech. After losing a flotilla of curraughs I finally made it to the other continent and in a turn zoomed to tech parity. Note, the library becomes obsolete when you know education so you can "slingshot" far up on the tech tree if you meeet other Ai's late or take the Library in war when you're way behind in tech.

Suribure, if you're playing on Chieftan, you might want to forgo the Library as at that level you have a great advantage in researching techs yourself. It is also a bit of a crutch and if you build it every game, can limit your development of skill in researching and tech trading. See the article in the War Academy on the forums on wonder addiction.
By the way, welcome to the forums!

Edit-whoops-cross posting! Sorry to be redundant.

 

[suribure]

Like you said, the library will give you techs that 2 or more other civs you have met know.
I had a game where I was on a continent with 1 other civ and was falling further and further behind on tech. After losing a flotilla of curraughs I finally made it to the other continent and in a turn zoomed to tech parity. Note, the library becomes obsolete when you know education so you can "slingshot" far up on the tech tree if you meeet other Ai's late or take the Library in war when you're way behind in tech.

Suribure, if you're playing on Chieftan, you might want to forgo the Library as at that level you have a great advantage in researching techs yourself. It is also a bit of a crutch and if you build it every game, can limit your development of skill in researching and tech trading. See the article in the War Academy on the forums on wonder addiction.
By the way, welcome to the forums!

Edit-whoops-cross posting! Sorry to be redundant.

Hey no problem.

I just was wondering how the GL worked that was all. Not going to build it, I was just wondering because of SirP his wonderful Sid setting game.