Newbie's First Game Post - please critique

Settle a city on the coast in between the game and the iron, settle a couple of other cities to take full advantage of all those floodplains. I'd put a city on the western gold hill.
You are WAY behind on worker production, you need far more workers as you have a terribly underdeveloped nation. Your capitol isn't even connected by road to anything. Neither iron is connected to the majority of your cities, so only one city can produce iron based units. You haven't built any mines, so you're only getting about 1/2 of the shields you should be getting. However you should still easily win this game.
 
First off, you do not need all of those units in your cities. I didn't check your difficulty level, but my formula up til' regent is 2 defenders for towns, 2-3 for cities, and 3-4 for metros. The only anomalies will be when there are border towns that need defense, then maybe 4 or 5 per city. Instead, take all of those units and liquidate Germany. As Gosnork so correctly stated, you need more workers. I generally try for a 1:4 ratio of workers to settlers/cities, so 1 worker for every 4 cities. This is generally during the expansion phase, and later I try for 1:3 or even 1:2. Seeing as your game needs workers, any enemy ones you capture (slaves) you should keep until you have sufficient effective workers (since captured ones are only 50% effective) to meet the 1:4, 1:3, or 1:2 ratio, and then join them to all of your cities, or disband them. You also have a tremendous amount of unconnected cities, or poorly improved countryside. Once you get some workers, go to Menu>Preferences and change the unit action settings to 'advanced'. Then look for "build trade" on your workers and let them go nuts. Also, as soon as you end the war with Germany, try to settle most of the world around you, especially the resource locations. Even during wartime you should have maybe 1 or 2 cities building settlers. It seems as if you're heading for republic, and I know that your core (the center cities) needs but one military unit per city, since there is no military police, and the cities you have to defend are the border ones. The extra defenders can be disbanded to make room for offensive units to go conquer more. This is all if you go into republic. Otherwise, follow my previous advice. Now, before using republic, have you ever done so in the past? If not, then you might want to read up on some strategies for republic, since it's a tough nut to crack, and I was stumped for a long time on it, and even now I have trouble with it still. Ask some other members like Gmaharriet, I know that they know better than me. Do you want a save from one of my games around the same time as you to see what I mean?

Hope this helps, you look like you're made of the right stuff for total Civ3 carnage.
 
I would not recommend 1 worker for each 4 towns, rather at least one for each town. You do not even have the FP build town connected? How did you lose Odessa?

Why did you not found on that river some place? Why so many units? No need for spears at Warlord.

If you had Minsk connected, you could have swords instead of all that junk.

You passed up two lakes?

You are building libs and have only 1 beakers in some places? Running only 20% research and still -6gpt.

Why build court houses at this point in the game, you need settlers and workers.

You should not need temples at warlord, at least not till you have gotten larger cities.

No sense in making a harbor, if you are not going to be working any coastal tiles or make any ships.

No need for walls at warlord, that is for AW or Sid games and maybe a few other situations.

Why did you build a granary in Minsk?

Moscow is allowed to starve while you have two jokers?

I did not look any harder, but you need to start at the 4000bc and take baby steps. Play a game out to 40 turns and post the 4000bc and the 40 turn save, with some log of what you did in each turn.

Then we can go over what you should have done or not done and get on the right track.
 
I think that the situation can still be remedied, though it will be a daunting task.
In the early stages you want a lot of settlers to go claim the world so that you can start improving it all at once with all of your cities making workers, so I would use 1:4, then at the later stages 1:3, 1:2, and maybe even 1:1 and 3:2 near the early-mid industrial ages.
 
I agree with vmxa on everything he suggested. Either start a new game and post after ~40 turns, or restart this one and post it earlier.

Whenever possible, you want your towns established on fresh water, either river or lakes. That will allow them to grow larger without building an aqueduct.

Workers...minimum of 1 per town, and 1.5 or 2 per town is even better. While your capitol city may need to begin by building 2 or 3 explorers (either warriors or scouts), most future towns should build their own worker. If a newly established town will grow in 10 turns, I usually build a warrior (5 turns) and then a worker (5 turns) OR a worker in 10 turns...both if possible, but the worker if I have to make a choice.

Libraries...build them when the city view shows at least 10 net gold per turn. Less gold than that and they are not worth their upkeep.

Gold for doing research and supporting your units comes from your citizens (seen in the city view) working roaded and/or riverbank tiles. That's why it's so important to have enough workers to build roads for your citizens to work.

All towns and resources (both food, lux and strategic) should be connected by roads. If there is any highest priority in the game, I think that would be it.

Build a granary in the 1 or 2 towns that will be producing most of your settlers and/or workers...often your capitol and another core town. Build barracks in the high-shield towns where you plan to build most of your military units...offensive units...NO spears. Most other buildings can wait for awhile.

I'll be looking forward to seeing your next save file. Good luck!!! :)
 
But making that many workers takes time and population early on. That pop could be poured into settlers to go claim the great outdoors, and then have it get fixed up. Later on, of course, having a turdload of workers is smart.

@gmaharriet

What do you mean by 10 net gpt?

BTW Congratulations on your 4000th post!
 
But making that many workers takes time and population early on. That pop could be poured into settlers to go claim the great outdoors, and then have it get fixed up. Later on, of course, having a turdload of workers is smart.
But the workers develop the land to produce more food and shields, which helps produce more settlers. Think irrigation of plains tiles and mining grassland. Of course, nothing speeds settler production like a well-developed settler factory, and that takes worker turns to set up as well as the resources.

@gmaharriet

What do you mean by 10 net gpt?
The amount of available, usable gold. A corrupt town might produce 10 gold, but only 1 net usable to go through a multiplier building like a lib...not enough to help. Also, gold produced by taxmen does not run through libraries.

If you have 10 net gpt and the SCI slider at 100%, a lib will increase the amount devoted to research by 50%...a total of 15gpt (or beakers per turn). However, it's not always possible to run science at 100% and always it costs 1gpt for maintaining the library as an improvement. If you are only getting 4 net gpt and running science at 50%, that's 2+1=3 gpt for science, but then you reduce that by the 1 for maint. You also need to consider the shields and time used to build a library when you might otherwise be building settlers or units.

For in depth information on multiplier buildings, check out Aabraxan's article in the Strategies section. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=242296 He summarized what it took me a couple of years to figure out on my own. :cool:
 
But the workers develop the land to produce more food and shields, which helps produce more settlers. Think irrigation of plains tiles and mining grassland. Of course, nothing speeds settler production like a well-developed settler factory, and that takes worker turns to set up as well as the resources.


The amount of available, usable gold. A corrupt town might produce 10 gold, but only 1 net usable to go through a multiplier building like a lib...not enough to help. Also, gold produced by taxmen does not run through libraries.

If you have 10 net gpt and the SCI slider at 100%, a lib will increase the amount devoted to research by 50%...a total of 15gpt (or beakers per turn). However, it's not always possible to run science at 100% and always it costs 1gpt for maintaining the library as an improvement. If you are only getting 4 net gpt and running science at 50%, that's 2+1=3 gpt for science, but then you reduce that by the 1 for maint. You also need to consider the shields and time used to build a library when you might otherwise be building settlers or units.

For in depth information on multiplier buildings, check out Aabraxan's article in the Strategies section. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=242296 He summarized what it took me a couple of years to figure out on my own. :cool:

1) True, but you need those settlers fast. Real fast. I mean having 8 settlers out before starting any serious working, since then you have a solid base from which to begin. Then you can start making workers to fit your fancy.

2) Good point. The only difference would be if it's a big city in need of more land to cultivate and to grow larger, sort of like the worker ROI you mentioned above.
 
1) True, but you need those settlers fast. Real fast. I mean having 8 settlers out before starting any serious working, since then you have a solid base from which to begin. Then you can start making workers to fit your fancy.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. :D

2) Good point. The only difference would be if it's a big city in need of more land to cultivate and to grow larger, sort of like the worker ROI you mentioned above.
If it's a big core city, it probably has at least 10 net gpt already and is ripe for a library. If it's a distant corrupt city, you're probably better off just building another settler for another tax/sci farm town...the new town will generate more gold/beakers, whereas the lib will cost you maintenance.

If you are very near the end-game and you need just a few add'l tiles quickly for a Domination victory, then cash-rushing temples or libs (whichever is cheaper) may make sense.
 
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. :D


If it's a big core city, it probably has at least 10 net gpt already and is ripe for a library. If it's a distant corrupt city, you're probably better off just building another settler for another tax/sci farm town...the new town will generate more gold/beakers, whereas the lib will cost you maintenance.

If you are very near the end-game and you need just a few add'l tiles quickly for a Domination victory, then cash-rushing temples or libs (whichever is cheaper) may make sense.

1) Yes, we will.

2) Sorry, that's just me, I use communism all the time, so all my cities are pretty similar.
 
I use communism all the time, so all my cities are pretty similar.

By the time you can switch to communism in the Industrial Age, you would no doubt have 10gpt net in most of your cities. If you don't, perhaps because they are new and as yet only pop 1 or 2, a lib still won't do any good until it grows sufficiently...no matter what government you're in.

The only exception I'd make early on would be if I were going for a 100k cultural victory.
 
You are doing fine Croton. You just need to find a little rythmn with your production order, and recognize hot spots for founding cities. Don't take some of the harsh criticism to heart. I'm sure that you could, in fact, do the exact opposite of every suggestion made, and still achieve a victory. Play to your own style.

I would not recommend 1 worker for each 4 towns, rather at least one for each town.

I would go with 2 workers per town minimum. But I love workers.

Why did you not found on that river some place? Why so many units? No need for spears at Warlord.

Some explanation:

Tiles worked that are touching rivers produce +1 gold. Cities on rivers can grow to size 12 without an aquadeuct.

On any level I normally have 2 spear per city, and often have 3 after monarchy. This can prevent several potential headaches.

You passed up two lakes?

Lakes, like rivers, allow cities to grow to size 12 without an aquaduct if the city is next to the lake.

You are building libs and have only 1 beakers in some places? Running only 20% research and still -6gpt.

Don't worry yourself with specialists. Don't even use them for now.

Building libraries is a good idea, just don't have every city doing it at once. Build up your army too. Libraries will increase your income eventually.

Why build court houses at this point in the game, you need settlers and workers.

Courthouses are usually a very late-game build, and the easier the level, the later in the game. If you find yourself building a courthouse, try building a unit/worker/settler instead.

You should not need temples at warlord, at least not till you have gotten larger cities.

Couldn't disagree more. I build temples right away. Depending on the circumstances, at city creation I either build a worker, temple, or barracks. My cities all get 2 spear, barracks, and a temple, check check check, and put out 2 workers in that sequence somewhere too, provided that the city growth is not dismal.

No sense in making a harbor, if you are not going to be working any coastal tiles or make any ships.

Harbors are good for trade, not just production and ships. You might want to give every coastal city a harbor.

No need for walls at warlord, that is for AW or Sid games and maybe a few other situations.

Walls can be very useful. Build a city near the enemy, in the hills, give it barracks, a temple, walls, and a few spear. Its great for keeping your offensive units healthy, and controlling valuable terrain. If the city is on a river, forget the wall though.

But a wall is not for every city, just strategically or tactically placed ones.

Why did you build a granary in Minsk?

Why *not* build a granary in Minsk? Granaries double growth rate. I don't build them on Warlord because I build the pyramids, but its not a terrible idea.

Moscow is allowed to starve while you have two jokers?

This is going to happen nearly every game. Usually after you conquer a big city. Get some defenders in there, rush a temple. Having two entertainers and allowing a city to starve are two no-no's, but sometimes it can't be helped.

so VMXA - I should just abandon my game?
And did I mention I am new at this?

:) I wouldn't abandon the game. I'm sure you can pull out a win!

I remember a game I played some years ago, in which I was proud to have built my first horseman, only to have a tank go cruising by shortly thereafter.
:eek:

In the early stages you want a lot of settlers to go claim the world so that you can start improving it all at once

This is the most important rule of Civ. Expand expand expand!!! Settler are your most important unit. I don't even send my settlers out with guards until one has been attacked. Every city that is size 3 or 4 is building a settler, and I build temples/barracks/workers/spear in between. I will have a city or two working on certain wonders, and a city or two starting work on my military. The rest are working on expansion/infrastructure.

Build along rivers and near cattle. Best spot is on a river, near cattle, with some hills in the fat X. If you are struggling, restart any game where your start is not on grassland with cattle and river close by. Don't be afraid to explore though, before founding your first city. The start site may be better than it looks. I will take up to 5 turns before founding.

The early turns are the most important turns, and expansion is of the utmost importance. It takes a good rythmn though, to know when to build what, and I think most experienced players have that rythmn so ingrained they forget what it is like to not have it. Its a game... have fun with it, and the rythmn will come naturally.

Just as a brief guide:

I am playing a game on Warlord. I chose the Mayans because their civ traits allow for super fast expansion (industrial !!!).

I have several cities built. My capital is size 6 and producing a settler every 4-6 turns. I have one city building workers every 3-4 turns, one building the pyramids, and another building archers in case of/in preparation for war.

A Mayan settler is crossing the grasslands in a very wide valley between two mountain ranges. I had previously founded a city near some gems that were 24 tiles from the city closest to the gems, and now I am building a 'chain' of cities to that far away city.

My settler is 4-7 tiles away from the nearest city. Personally, I prefer 7, but usually terrain dictates the distance. My settler decides to ... settle, and like a cat, looks around for the best spot.

River? Nope. Dang it.
Cattle? Yep.
The cattle is surrounded by all grassland. The settler heads for an adjancent tile without the shield bonus, and plops down. Paradize is founded!!

Now, what to build?

First choice: worker. But... how long will it take to build the worker and how long 'til the city grows?
- If the city can build the worker without any turns wasted, build the worker first -
> I admit, on warlord I sometimes break this rule and will waste a turn or two of prodcution if I really want that worker!

If turns would be wasted, build either Barracks or Temple. Choose the Barracks unless you need to expand your border fast. Once the Barracks is built... what size is your city?

If size 1 or 2, now build the worker. If size 3 or 4, build a settler. Once that is done, build a spearman if you have a Barracks. Build a Barracks if you don't have one.

You just completed your settler. You have a Barracks and Spearman. A worker is building mines and roads around the city. What to build next? Another worker, if no turns will be wasted, or another Spearman if a worker would waste turns.

Worker done. City size? Size 1 or 2, build a second Spearman. 3+, build a settler. After this, size 1 or 2, build a Temple. 3+, another settler.

You get the idea. Once the city has 2 workers, 2 spearmen, Barracks, and Temple, after building a settler build what you think the kingdom needs, maybe an archer, or a spearman to fortify in a slow-producing city or on a resource.

All those bonus workers that the worker city is producing are for connecting cities with roads, working the wonder producing cities, irrigating over long distances and working cities that grow very slowly, and helping with mines on hills/mountains. Connecting cities with roads is a priority for these bonus workers!

Now, you just discovered Monarchy, have 20-30 cities, and two armies of around 12 archers and 3 spearmen each, and your workers have just about made roads connecting you to your closest neighbor. Go to war?

Go to war only if there is no more available quality land to expand on or they have iron and you don't. I've started wars simply to control a strip of hills and grassland that had room for two cities. Hills = Military Factories. Another good reason to start a war is if you find yourself in competition with another country. Find a third party weaker than you that is on one of your borders, and conquer him. Soon you will be mightier than that competitor.

And, when expanding, assuming you start on grasslands, follow the natural drift of the land... try to build as many cities as you can among the grass and hills. Don't ignore the coast, because you might want a navy. Send out settlers to scoop up luxuries and strategic resources even if will take 20+ turns to walk there.

One thing the ai is fond of is building cities in locations that box you in. Out-box-in the enemy! If you encounter a country near your borders, start moving your settlers in that direction to take as much land as you can. Its a race!

Hope you find something useful in there.
 
so VMXA - I should just abandon my game?
And did I mention I am new at this?

Mark

Yes I knew that. I am sorry I was a bit terse, but it was late. You are playing Warlord, so you can come back to win. So the thing is would it be more useful to
put in that effort or to start over and get a better understanding of the game.

That is not a call I can make, but I can help you with the learning process, if you want.

I listed those item so you can look at them and see if what I said makes any sense and if you need some clarification on any. Not an attempt to make you look bad or anything, merely a coarse attempt a enlightenment.
 
Let me weight in and risk a thread jack here on the settler worker issue. First you are not going to have that many games where you can get 8 settlers planted at the start.

If you are playing Demi or better on std maps, you do not have enough land and time. If you play on huge maps, I am not interested in commenting on general strategy as it does not apply to those maps.

Let me also mention that communism is not a good plan in all but a few conditions, unless you are religious, you just cannot justify another switch.

You have to learn a tech you do not need to research and that is not a good plan in the main. You have to revolt, this at a point when you are at your strongest.

Last why on earth do I want a bunch of medium cities, that I now have to spend resources to build up?

I do not see any reason why making workers should imped by expansion. In fact it should improve it. I will not be popping workers out of my settler towns and my workers can get roads up to the next location, which is getting increasingly farther away.
 
Those 8 settlers are probably just a result of my big map preference. I don't know about random really, so vmxa is probably right.
About communism: Eventually, the amount of cities you have is simply going to outweigh the resources needed from the core to support them. Then communism makes all of the cities share the burden, and that gives a bunch of cash, which can be used for various ends. Like you said, the anarchy sucks, so why not switch asap when it's less essential to stay "archic" then wait until you really have to?
 
Don't know what you mean by needed support for the extra cities. They do not need anything, they just produce beakers and nothing else.
 
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