News: BOTM 09 First Spoiler

[DynamicSpirit]

BOTM 09 First Spoiler

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in BOTM 09, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You must have reached at least 500 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not discuss anything post 500 AD.
• Please do not discuss any events in locations or reveal any of the map not reachable before caravels.
• Please do not name any civs that are not contactable before caravels.

 

[srad]

Settled on stone, build the second city on the plains hill by the gems (starting position of the settler). The pyramids were build in the first city, in the second city I build the oracle and took Code of Law as free tech.
With Representation and Caste System I got 6 beakers per assigned specialist. This was really important because after this I build city 3 and 4 and than I attacked Cyrus with Cats and Swords and I needed the money for army support and city maintenance.

Research rate was almost all the time 0% but with the specialists the research was pretty fast . Cyrus was kill by 500AD, I razed 2 or 3 cities. After that my plan was to beeline rifling. So far so good by 500AD ...

 

[orb]

Similar to srad..I settled 1E of stone and second city on the plains hill by the gems, early build order (worker, warrior, Great Wall, Settler, Settler, Pyramids.) - The great wall removed the need to have a large military at the start of the game. (At one point my nation comprised 3 cities with only 1 warrior....although I would need to change this as soon as I started to have more contact with the AI's.

Discovered the Persians to the north and the Germans to the south, the Germans appeared to have poor terrain so I assumed they would be the weaker opposition....my plan was to take them out first....then unlucky...Got a random event of "diplomatic faux pas" with the Persians....So maybe I'll need to kick off an away game against them instead.

No sooner had I built my first spear units to defend against the potential Persian invasion when Cyrus DOW'ed on me, kicking off the first War of the game... Had to whip a few units into action to defend the city of Rostov (NW of gems, on hill west of river valley.)

To strengthen my hand I adopted the same religion as the Germans and Arabs (To prevent a second front opening up to my south.)

The war with Persia continued...Rostov fell, was recaptured immediately, fell, was recaptured immediately (again) then successfully held up to 500AD whilst my attacking units were assembled in Moscow for a sneak attack through the forests.

I was bottom of the league, but determined to avoid relegation.

 

[Cromwell]

First Immortal game, Prince is more my speed, only 3rd BtS game. Took the Adventurer bonus. Still alive at 500AD! Settled where the scout started. Built the Great Wall, Stonehenge and the Pyramids. Really, profoundly enjoyed watching the barbarians all head off to Germany instead. Ended up founding 6 cities; Persia beat me to the Pigs, but I got the incense and the clams. Research got down to 10%. Got the Apostolic Palace in 25AD. World in 2 religious blocs, Sumaria - Russia Buddhist, Rome - Persia Hindu. Intermittent battles with Persia over the Pig City: I snuck it off them when they were fighting off an Arabian/German invasion. Russia a popular tourist spot for Roman armies. I'm constantly making bad trades for tech, can't decide if it's a mistake or a necessity at this handicap, but it seems to make me fairly universally beloved.

 

[Levgre]

At 500 AD I had not fought even one war. I started out building one other city, and built Great Wall in the capital, and Pyramids in the city near the stone. Both finished about the same time, around 2000 BC.

After the Great Wall I expanded quickly with settlers and minimal military, to 4 cities. Then after a bit longer I took a barbarian city and settled one more city for a total of 6, at which point there were no good spots left for expansion(only the SE corner wasn't taken). So I wonder spammed in my 1st and 2nd city, which also had the national epic), getting the Great Library not too long after AD started.

I was fortunate to have my scout travel all the way around the map, southward, and getting back to my nation northward. Meeting all the civilizations quickly helped reduce research times somewhat.

I ran a specialist economy, farms in most places, 2 cities with a good amount of cottages, because they didn't have immediate access to fresh water. At one point my slider was at 0%, although most of the time I was running at least 20% science, usually drifting between 30-50%. I also traded techs for lots of gold, so for spurts of time I would run 100% science.

I also got the event that gives +2 health in all cities near the beginning of the game, which was quite beneficial.

I didn't get Oracle because it was a pretty big sidetrack early on to get priesthood when I didn't even need Monarchy. I wanted to go for aesthetics/alphabet right away. But the AI ended up not getting the oracle for much longer than I expected(600 BC), so I could've/should've gotten it. But I think it was advantageous to play it safe, because it sucks putting hammers and forests into a wonder just to lose it.

 

[Levgre]

I just looked at my save game from 445 AD.

In my capital I have
Mauselleum (Constructed AD 55)
Great Wall
Parthenon (constructed BC 65)

In second city
Great Library (constructed AD 25)
Pyramids
National Epic

I'm researching paper with 5 turns to go, and I am just about to switch into Bureaucracy and Pacifism.

I have 200k soldiers, the leader is Gigamesh on the opposite side of the map507k. I've been using one city mainly to slave axemen to keep my power relatively high. I have 12 axemen, 3 archers, and 1 catapult. Pretty meager, but not much less than most nations, who have about 300k soldiers each.

My gnp is about 300, with the next highest being about 200.

I have the second highest land area, the world is pretty evenly split amongst everyone though.

I have 2nd production at 100, with the highest being Gilgamesh 115.


I share Hinduism with 4 of the 6 other nations, so everyone pretty much gets along, except for Ceasar who most of us don't like. Wang Kong is Buddhist along with Cesaer, but he is not as unpopular.

 

[kcd_swede]

BOTM09: First spoiler (to 500AD)

Adventurer save (+1 worker + Agri)
Goal: survive and expand and try to stay close enough in tech to pull out a space victory and avoid being a target for invasion.

Settle location: Free worker and Agriculture makes for an easy choice… Moscow is founded between rice and stone. Losing 2 turns to get founded will be easily made up for by having farms on the food tiles.

Immediate actions: farm the rice and corn. Research Wheel and then Masonry to get stone on-line. Timing turns out perfect, since the worker finishes road on stone same turn Masonry is available, and I start building a quarry. Since I already have a worker, I am very slowly building a warrior while my city grows. At size 3, I debate halting warrior production to build settler, but decide that I shouldn’t let the power compared to AI get too low here on Immortal level. Nice to have as escort if needed as well. Start building settler at size 3 (half way to size 4) on about turn 24. After masonry I research BW because to take advantage of some forest tiles, and find metals for settlement.

St. Pete is settled on what I think was the original start location, 1N from the Gems. Had no idea I would find copper there (and in Moscow!). Just looking for a good site for getting fast tech rates. Built a second worker in Moscow and built another warrior in St Pete. Farmed one dye tile and cottaged the other. (After BW I teched AH then pottery. thus gaining all the worker-techs). Then beeline to writing and Alphabet. After warrior, St Pete starts immediately on building the GW. (Probably my best decision the whole game). 10-15 turns later, just 2 turns after I see the first barb soldier, I am immune from barbs! The eventual GSpy was settled in Moscow because I have difficult choosing who to get spy points on at this point, and I figure the extra research and GPP (plus +4 spy ppt) will be more tangible benefit in early game.

I didn’t do a lot of chopping, keeping 6 forest in Moscow BFC for +3 health bonus. I did chop the 2nd settler out so that I could start Pyramids in Moscow earlier. I also chopped 1 to help the Mids, fearing I might lose out on them – I shouldn’t have worried. Immediately revolt to Repr (but not slavery) on completing the Mids. Because of food resources I am quickly at the happy cap and can run max # of sci specialists (2 after library built quickly after writing). Alphabet was then a very slow tech, 24 turns or so, but figured it was my best chance to pick up missing techs in trade, since my scout had made contact with all civs.

Novograd was settled 4S + 2E from St Pete, getting copper in the inner ring for production and enabling Cow in the BFC.

Building axes just because its better to have them and not need them, than need them and not have them.

I did not trade alphabet away until two other civs had already gotten it. Since alphabet was the only tech I could give for IW, that meant I went a long time not knowing where any iron was. I had settled Rostov 3N+2W from Moscow because of the cow and a big blue circle (made me hope iron was nearby too… 2 turns before I finally broke down and gave Gilga (the tech leader). Saw barb city (Apache) 3 NE from Rostov, and built enough axes to take out its 4 archers once it gets to size 2. Alpha for IW and I now see the only reachable iron is either 4E + 2S of Novograd, or in the far north. After taking Apache, no losses, lots of good fortune there, I also see that Cyrus is headed to the N iron with a settler, and Bismark headed to the south iron with a settler. Bismarck’s city is sure to be a better one, so he is kind enough to settle there for me. But the dirtbag settletd ON the iron. So I built a settler to be able to raze and re-settle 1 SW of the iron, which gives the city cow and incense in the BFC in addition to the iron. I got horse in Apache, but I think I only built one chariot. HBR wasn’t on my priority list. So the war with Bismark was done with a highly-promoted axe stack. But his iron city didn’t put up any resistance (one horse archer vs 6 axe + 1 spear), so I set my sites on Cologne, guarded by 1 sword and 1 axe. Cologne gets razed – I already have 6 cities (after settling iron), running 40% research and losing 4 gpt (treasury at 85 gold), and simply can’t afford it. Besides, it isn’t a very good city.

But now I either must sue for peace or find some way to break down high cultural defenses. So it is peace (until catapults come on-line – first three under construction… the year is about 200BC). I’ve already decided to run the table with Bismark, taking first his horse city (Munich) on the coast. I’ve DOW’d Rome several times on the request of others, but am safely too far away to be affected. He gives nice goodies to get peace, too.  Cyrus dislikes me more than anyone else, but he is at only -2 at this point so he shouldn’t attack.

Well… things always take longer than you think. Bismark becomes the first to get Machinery and his crossbows would be too much for my axes/swords/cats.

So in the meantime, I built the GLib by teching Lit right after Alpha and building it the hard way (no marble). I had gotten 2 GE’s along the way, too, which built the Parthenon and the Swed Paya (wonders I left alone and didn’t plan to build… but heck why not if its free? St Pete built the Oracle which was supposed to sling me to CS, but even though I timed it for after CoL, I forgot Math and had to take MetalCasting instead. But with cheap forges, that’s a fair consolation. Revolted to Castes. Had to tech Math and then currency looked more urgent, so then finally teched CS and revolted to Bureau, and Free Relig.


But in year 500AD, Berlin has fallen. Bismark has Hamburg (a city I want to keep) and tundra Burgundian (one I could raze… or keep), and probably 2 more I can’t see which aren’t worth anything. So shear numbers will be his doom soon. I have gotten my first Maces into action, though most of the killing was done by axes/swords/cats. I have LB’s to hold all my gains.

Cyrus hates me (-5, worst enemy) and has an enormous stack of Immortals with a few axe and cats and swords, that could EASILY overrun St Pete (1 warrior) or any of the other border cities (Rostov + Apache, 2 axe in one, 1axe 1 spear in the other). My armies are far in the south.

Game status: Only warred with Bismark. Wars have gone well with few losses and lots of promotions. St Petes has barracks, military adviser and Heroic Epic and can turn out Mace in 4-5 turns each. Which it is doing to stop Cyrus from any ideas before Bismark is dead.

I remain the tech leader, but the lead is slowly eroding. I am 3rd in score 1036 (behind Saldin 1130 and Wang 1065) and 5th in power (ahead of Bismarck and probably Rome). Basically this game has the same feel as every other XOTM at Emperor or higher level… I am holding on near the leaders and accomplishing most of the things I set out to do, but see that the AI edge will soon push them insurmountably ahead if I don’t come up with a good plan. For now it is to mop up Bismark (normally, I’d have taken him as vassal about now, so maybe complete conquest is the difference that will set this game apart from all those other failures?). Then keep on teching military to keep my qualitative edge, and prepare for probably inevitable war with Cyrus. However, my immediate tech aim is to be first to Liberalism since Cats/LB’s/Maces will be sufficient for the time that takes (I am 12 turns from Philosophy, 33 turns for education, and 30 turns for Liberalism at present rates, but those will speed up once the war is done). I might detour for Printing if I lead the race enough. My economy is presently at only 10% Research and the army of specialists in Moscow are pulling me along. After the war I should be back up to 40% or so and speed up. We’ll see about that in the next spoiler!

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[mabraham]

Save: Contender (since I'm normally an Emperor player)
Strategy: Stay fairly small relying on tech trading and diplomacy to stay out of wars until a decisive opportunity presents itself, planning a space victory. Settle in place for a hybrid production/commerce capital, settle second city between stone and the rice for a GP farm, get GW and Pyramids. Build a third city somewhere on a river according to demand at the time. Maybe a fourth city if it looks needed. Spam wonders, plan to be at or near the tech lead, acceding to tech demands to keep people happy. Leverage the industrious trait by building wonders and accepting the cash bonus rather than push hard to get non-critical wonders. Use any GW-generated great spy to steal techs from whichever neighbour looks best. Late-game plan switch to State Property for the space race.

How did it go?

Pretty well so far. At 500AD I was about the tech leader, with GW, Pyramids, Great Library, Chichen, Hanging Gardens, with Uni of Sankore on the way. Cyrus, Saladin, Gilgamesh and I are the Hindu block. Bismark, Wang Kon and Julius are (respectively) hold-outs for Judaism, Confucianism and Buddhism. There was a long Rome-Sumeria war which suited me nicely. Bismarck got my great spy and I can see he's building me the AP soon. Have stolen 3-4 techs from Bismarck, with about 2 more available later. I suspect I stole these too quickly (i.e. didn't get full trading value from them before stealing another one), but never mind. He built a city one south of the horse, which was nice and close to my capital to reduce my espionage cost. He's busy back-filling for a while, which suits me. I will spam out some castles for the espionage bonus soon.

Bismarck and I are at the bottom of the power graph. I've finally built a crap fourth city down south to get iron-cow-incense so I can spam some crossbows and pikes to keep the vultures off my twitching carcass. I settled my third city SE of the capital on the river, planning a watermill HE city here.

I'm toast if I get DoWed in the next little while, but I really can't see that happening. In the medium term I plan to wipe out much of Bismarck (who has the Christian and Jewish holy cities as well as most of the wonders that I don't have). The no-vassal thing will mean I will try for a total KO in one war. I suspect I won't manage that before riflemen - but my economy won't cope with 10 cities before then anyway!

 

[blastoidstalker]

contender save

The game started as planned. I was very happy to find the copper in the GP fat cross. I built the Pyramids and great wall early like many others. My third city was placed near the horses on the coast to the southwest of the starting location. I start two worker steal wars with Bismark, taking workers and pillaging his copper and gold, with the rest of his tiles forest, he can do very little besides founding a couple of satellite cities. Once my core is established I axe rush Bismarck and take his 4 cities the last two following the coast towards Saliden. With the worker steal Bismark was the weakest civ in the game and could not produce many troops. Bismark left the forests around Berlin untouched (because I took most of his workers) it became my planned spot for the forbidden palace. Near the end of the war Cyrus declares on me and tries to take the GP farm, but with some whipping and my new war elephant I hold him off. I build the Great library sometime around here and declare war on Cyrus sometime shortly before 500 AD with the advent of maces.

Things look good at this point, I have around 8 cities and am in the top 3 in score and behind only Wan Kon in tech. Cyrus is near the bottom with the Romans, wo he should make a manageable next target. more with the next spoiler.

 

[Mundungu]

First game at that level ever (until now max win was at Monarch) and I was very surprised by the good start I got, although the location certainly helped.

To have played the test games helped a lot also.

Anyhow I settled in place, tried to get a few key wonders, and wanted to found at least one religion to make friends and for the income ...

at 430 AD I had founded judaism with the temple of salomon, got GL, Oracle and SH in capital, Colossus in my only coastal city for the cultural value (border with Germany): GW, Pyramids, Parthenon, Epic in the city next to the stone.

Total 5 cities, middle of the field, still ok on the technology level thanks to great spy and beelining key technologies.

but basically, even if I was happy with my start, it showed that i could have done better, and soon to be overtaken by the others by far.

Currently at war with Saladin, I did not play the politics very well with too few friends and too many ennemies.

Trying to beeline to some key technology to beef up my military and take on the germans or other neighbours...

I edited this mail, because I played the first game very fast, and replayed it later to see if I could do better, and at the first post looked at the wrong save.

 

[kcd_swede]

I've finally built a crap fourth city down south to get iron-cow-incense so I can spam some crossbows and pikes to keep the vultures off my twitching carcass.

That sounds like where I put Yaroslavl. I wouldn't call it a crap city, I'd call it a resource city. With my only iron (500AD) its probably my strategically most important city. Sure its kind of lame in the short-term, but I have big plans for all those forests in the later stages of the game.

 

[Dill]

Damned Barbarians! They all came in a rush and 5 of them were on my borders in one turn! Too much for a few warriors to handle...

38mins!

One of these days I'll get to post a competitive score... maybe...

 

[Warden USA]

Well, This went according to plan. By the year 500 I was whipping defenders in my capital to stop The Germans from taking my last city....At least I made it to 500AD

 

[Markus5]

Settled in place. Second city to the east. Build Great Wall and Pyramids. Third city was founded by the horses on the coast. Barb cities started popping up, but the barbs didn't seem to bother anyone at all. Certainly, the Germans did OK. Even at the bottom of the rankings, they put together a stack of 4 swords, 2 axes and a spear. They attacked me first, taking my third city. After peace, they systematically took out all the barb cities near their territory. At 500ad, I have 5 cities, 4 or which are well-placed. But, I'm way behind because of the very early war with Germany. There doesn't look like much hope.

 

[MarkM]

Wow, as the resident BTS "cowherder," it blows my mind that (so far at least) it sounds like I am the most aggressive, declaring wars on both Bismarck and Cyrus in the first two thousand years. Probably has a lot to do with fact that I followed my plan to settle in place and research BW first. Although I did not do it because I wanted or planned to be a warmonger, but it was fate that somehow I finished BW and the gem mine the very same turn (forcing a conscious decision: chop settler like I had been planning to, or mine the copper? My strategic plans literally did a 180 on that turn) I haven't been able to play for almost two weeks now due to holidays and other RL stuff so my memory is a little fuzzy, but I think I built 5-6 straight axemen (or more?) after the initial worker & the copper mine was done, chopping continuously, and then went after Cyrus before I even had finished off Bismarck(which did not work out as well as it could of, or as quickly as it could of, due to a couple boneheaded moves, but I still got most of the job done). I think it was partially due to that this was another epic game and I knew I would be busy for a while so I feared if I were not aggressive I would never finish in time, so I kinda went for it.

I am looking forward to finally getting back to this game this coming weekend, I can't remember all the details but it sounds like I'm in pretty good shape relatively speaking. Hope I can still finish it.

p.s. in case it wasn't clear, my second city was named Berlin

 

[blastoidstalker]

Wow, as the resident BTS "cowherder," it blows my mind that (so far at least) it sounds like I am the most aggressive, declaring wars on both Bismarck and Cyrus in the first two thousand years.

I went with early axe rushing as well but not quite so extreme. I declared twice on Bismark in the first 1600 years but they were raids more than wars, Ijust took his worker and leveled his improvements, got peace then waited ten turns then did it again. after this I had my real war. Berlin was city #4 for me and hamburg (I think that is the name) to the east of berlin in a nice spot was #5. While we were fighting Bismark had the brigh idea of founding another city and attacking a barb city on the coast to the west. I took thesae as well. near the end of this cyrus declared was on me twice, this added up to 5 wars before 500 AD, but only two of them (1 with bismark, 1 with cyrus had signifagnt action.

 

[Harbourboy]

Contender

Settled in place.

I went the axe rush route and lost my whole stack in one attack on a barbarian city which contained some nuclear powered invincible archer defenders. If I'd attacked Cyrus instead, I'd be doing really well, but as it is, I am now miles behind. Stupid game.

I did build Pyramids though, which was quite exciting, so at least I have some research from specialists when I'm losing money at 0% science.

Survival is the only goal now.

 

[Cabledawg]

Contender save

This game felt like an Emperor game or possibly lower. I figured that since the adventurer save got Agriculture and a worker, that there had to be a food resource within the BFC, so I settled in place and was dissapointed. My research path up to 500AD.....

Bronze
Agriculture
Wheel
Masonry
Myst
Poly
Priest
Writing
Animal Hus
Mathmatics....from Oracle
Alpha
Iron Working
Mono
Pottery
Fish
Sail
Med
Aest
Theology
Construction
Lit
Calender
Currency
Monarch
HB
COL
Metal Casting
Music
CS
Paper

2nd city founded East by the stone and quickly built the Great Wall and Stonehenge while the capitol built the Oracle. I took Mathmatics from the Oracle because I wanted the extra chopping power....and the Hanging Gardens. 3rd City founded south by the copper and cows.

Completed Pyramids in 1205BC and Temple of Artemis soon after due to getting a Great Engineer. Hanging Gardens completed in 775BC.

525BC....I declare on Bizzy razing Munich which was badly placed. Julius declares on me. I thought it was a phony war till I saw units on my border. I made peace with Bizzy in 440BC and took care of Julius stack......made peace with him soon after.

Popped a prophet in 440BC....Christianity hadnt been founded, so I bulbed Theology. 185BC.....popped a Great Engy and built the Great Library.

110BC...Declare on Bizzy and raze Essen as its in the same spot Munich was in when I razed it last time we were at war....1 off the coast. I had a settler waiting and founded Rostov. 20BC...captured Berlin.....5BC...razed Dortmund. 85AD...captured Hamburg. 160AD....captured Cologne....made peace and hes down to 2 cities.....which I cant reach....somehow he got 2 cities up north on the other side of Cyrus. How did that happen this early in the game. I was planning my next war with Salladin and taking his juicy holy city of Mecca.

Cryrus didnt like me much after declaring twice on his friend and was building up along my border. The next spoiler will tell how we fared with him and Sally.

My tech rate was decent. By 500AD, I was just starting Education and felt real confident about Liberalism. My plan at the 500AD point was Conquest with a backup Spaceship.

 

[mabraham]

That sounds like where I put Yaroslavl. I wouldn't call it a crap city, I'd call it a resource city. With my only iron (500AD) its probably my strategically most important city. Sure its kind of lame in the short-term, but I have big plans for all those forests in the later stages of the game.

Yes, indeed, its purpose is strategic, rather than tactical. Fortunately it had some food, some hammers and some grassland, so it can get cottaged and be a useful contributor. Or National Park it :smile:

 

[oncable]

Contender.
So many trees! So much chopping!
Settled in place and built second city by stone. Stole worker early on from Cyrus then kept a warrior on each side of Persepolis to prevent growth until axes could get there. First 2 axman gained some valuable experience killin barbs. The dumb ai sent out another worker right next to my warrior so stole that one too. Sent 3 axmen, lost one, no Cyrus.

Built Stonehenge, Great Wall to keep the pesky barbs away so I could concentrate on ax rush of Germany. Built (chopped) Oracle in Persepolis. Need tons more workers for all the chopping. Guess I'll have to borrow them from Germany. Stole a couple then serious ax rush with trebs. By 500 AD no Germany and the Temple of Artemis has a new owner. Also have Pyramids, Hang Gardens and Oracle.

Need more workers, looks like they'll be Arab. Pilgrimage to Mecca shortly. Just need a few more trebs and maces.