News: BOTM 12 Pre-game Discussion

[PaulisKhan]

I just ran another full space race test game and improved my finish date to 1912 but I'm still a long way from the best HoF dates.

I'm not sure what I can do to improve it and unfortunately the HoF doesn't have many normal speed scores submitted for Noble difficulty for me to compare with.

What sort of date should I be looking for to be competitive with on these settings?
Knowing how far off I am will go a long way to helping me figure out where I'm going wrong.

Any advice before I start for real would be appreicated =)

 

[godotnut]

Diplo is done by the books, all the diplo turns and twists have been tested there ages ago, provided with numbers, and BtS didn't bring much - unlike Space Ship. However, this is my personal opinion, and I've played SS just once in BtS, so loads of learning for me

Even more learning for me, as I quit playing Civ for many months and since returning, have only completed a few games, including only two games in BTS, both of which were dismal cultural games. All of my opinions should be taken with a heaping grain of salt and a realization that I'm still really a Vanilla/Warlords player learning the ropes of BTS.

 

[godotnut]

Take care of the new rules against self-voting!

Shows how new I am to BTS. I didn't know this at all. So I assume this means there is no self-voting whatsoever, and only opposing teams and vassals can vote you in? Is there anything else I should know about diplo in BTS?

 

[karmina]

So I assume this means there is no self-voting whatsoever, and only opposing teams and vassals can vote you in? Is there anything else I should know about diplo in BTS?

It just means that there will be no election if you own the number of votes which are required to win (iirc 75% for AP, 60% pop for UN).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

1 SE. Hills early for hammers, Cottage rivers later (plus a coastal lake) for bureaucracy after settling nearby land.

I'll probably take challenger again.

 

[WithTea]

Looks like I'll be following the consensus and moving one space SE. However, I'll be doing it for an unmentioned reason. Everyone else focuses on early which is well and good but long term I hate to miss out on the levee potential.

 

[Skurn]

Settling SE looks good to me too.
Being coastal will bring more commerce which will get enhanced under bureaucracy.

On the other hand, moving the settler 2 SE might be interesting too; losing rice to gain a seafood would be a good tradeoff IMO, and if nothing shows up, you will only lose 1 turn..

 

[dannybe]

This map should be perfect for spreading a religion. It's very shape would mean most if not all of the other civs could be quickly reached along the inside coast either by foot or by sea. An early religion (which shouldn't be too difficult) a galley & a few missionaries and your religion could be spread very quickly. Maybe an AP victory or, at the vey least a good source of income. Does an AP victory seem realistic?

 

[nokem]

I seem to remember reading about new anti-AP victory logic in the latest patch. If you spread the AP religion to a civ they will prioritise spreading it internally to maximise their blocking vote. Can anyone confirm this? Seems to me it makes the AP attractive just for coins and hammers even if you don't pursue a religious victory.

 

[dalamb]

Where is is the worker for the adventurer save?

I'd still like to know this, in hopes that a future posting of my initial thoughts about the Adventurer save might get responses from somebody before I start the game (and thus can no longer post here).

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The adventurer worker is on the same tile as the settler

 

[dalamb]

The adventurer worker is on the same tile as the settler

Thanks! Looks like one useful thing the worker can do is go either 2SE or W-NW to check out a bit more of the coast before the settler decides what to do. I think I'd go 2SE because, if there's ocean food there, it might be a better spot (beside river, still coastal, still has cows, has at least one more hill, though it burns a forest to use it). It would also allow a second city at 2N or N-NW to use both the rice and the wine (as well as claiming a bit of territory further from the coast).

I suppose one might explore with the settler for a turn or two and move IT 2SE with the worker going the other way, to get maximal first-turn information on the starting area (warrior: NE in all cases, I think).

 

[Bisque]

based on info above in this thread this sounds like it should be a good CE map. but I usually play CE with financial civs, and I suck at SE. so, any quick thoughts on how to play CE with a non financial civ ?

I fired up a game for practice using america on donut map with no jungle... and I'm up to 500 AD and only able to run 60% science, whereas with a financial civ I run 80/90 the whole game. yet I really need to plunk down 2 more cities, I only have 8, and I cant really afford them.

of course everyone is probably playing by now, so I am probably too late.

cheers!

 

[WithTea]

Just one thought. Without financial or organized, my preference, a smaller civ would keep costs down. Other than that, not a clue.

 

[Bisque]

well after 3 practice games on same map/civ etc, I conclude I simply lack the skills to win with with America on Noble. so. I'm gonna give this game a go and suck it up.

i'll be playing now, so wont be able to post, but if anyone who hasn't started yet can send any nuggets of wisdom, I'd love to hear it.

I'll submit my game if I am not too embarrassed and can resist the urge to give up.

 

[Htadus]

well after 3 practice games on same map/civ etc, I conclude I simply lack the skills to win with with America on Noble. so. I'm gonna give this game a go and suck it up.

i'll be playing now, so wont be able to post, but if anyone who hasn't started yet can send any nuggets of wisdom, I'd love to hear it.

I'll submit my game if I am not too embarrassed and can resist the urge to give up.

Simplest advice I can give is to set up about 4-5 cities by 1000BC and get about 3 of them to focus on cottages. And use the other 1 or 2 cities to build units and workers. If you are expecting to run into cash problem, build a wonder you DO NOT want to complete and some thing that AI will early such as the GW and Stonehenge. When these get built elsewhere, you will get gold from the hammers.

I usually get to Lit for the Great Library (to build it) and then either go for CS (if I did not get it from the Oracle) and currency. After that beeline to Education.

By about 500 AD I try to have about 8 Cities and build the Oxford in the Cap as soon as possible. Oh yeah...the non-science cities can help by building commerce. Oh yeah do not forget to set up a GP farm that can speed up the path to Ed and if possible to build the Myds.

Good luck.

 

[HolyHandGrenade]

I seem to remember reading about new anti-AP victory logic in the latest patch. If you spread the AP religion to a civ they will prioritise spreading it internally to maximise their blocking vote. Can anyone confirm this? Seems to me it makes the AP attractive just for coins and hammers even if you don't pursue a religious victory.

Do you have the source of this? I played many religious games in 3.17 and never recognized such a behaviour. You still could use the trick with spreading a false religion to a big opponent city and the next turn spreading your planned AP-religion to a tiny city. The AI will then adopt the 1st religion and very rarely switch to your AP-religion without a need (perhaps if the 2nd religion is the preferred one of this civ)

 

[nokem]

I can't find the post in question. I remember it was a walkthrough (or maybe a BOTM spoiler) shortly after the patch that reported seeing an AI actively spreading the AP religion although it wasn't their state religion. The poster speculated this was part of the effort to make religious victory more difficult. I don't understand the mechanics of AP voting myself so I'm not sure if this makes sense or not.

(I've started the game now so I won't post further in this thread)

 

[Lexad]

In Nederlands BOTM I spread Christianity (AP religion) to Musa's one city (he himself was the founder of Judaism, and J was our state religion), and he happily distributed it to all his cities. Also saw another instance of such behavoir from Liz - it was 3rd religion in her cities. I'm not sure whether it is the voting strat or the cultural victory strat, though.

 

[HolyHandGrenade]

In Nederlands BOTM I spread Christianity (AP religion) to Musa's one city (he himself was the founder of Judaism, and J was our state religion), and he happily distributed it to all his cities. Also saw another instance of such behavoir from Liz - it was 3rd religion in her cities. I'm not sure whether it is the voting strat or the cultural victory strat, though.

I should add, that in most of my religious wins I only have one or two cities. And when spreading the AP-religion I am normally in "no/free religion" mode. It is right that some religion-lovers spread several religions to all of their cities, but mostly to either get friends or enemies. The worst thing normally happens is that Christianity loving civs do everything to get it and spread it.