News: BOTM 14 Pregame Discussion

[DynamicSpirit]

BOTM 14: Babylon

Game Details:

Game settings:
Civilization: Babylon (Leader: Hammurabi; Traits: Aggressive and Organized)
Rivals: 6 AIs
Difficulty: Monarch
Map: Archipelago (snaky continents)
Mapsize: Standard
Climate: Tropical
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Epic
Options: None.
World wrap: Cylindrical
Victory Conditions: all enabled.

Hammurabi:
Hammurabi is Aggressive and Organized, and the Babylonians start with the wheel and agriculture. Aggressive gives a free combat I promotion to melee and gunpowder units, and double production speed of barracks and drydock. Organized gives you -50% civ upkeep costs, and double production speed of courthouses, lighthouses and factories.

Unique unit: Bowman (replaces archer)
Like the archer, the bowman has a base strength of 3, with +50% city defence, +25% hills defence and 1 first strike. In addition, the bowman gets +50% versus melee units.

Unique building: Garden(replaces colosseum)
Like the colosseum, the Garden gives +1 happy face, with an additional +1 happy face with every 20% culture rate. The extra bonus of the garden is it gives +2 health.

Starting screenshot)
This is the start of the game (click for a bigger image):



Challenger Class Equalisers:

1. No warrior. Gone walkies. Probably in the sea and drowned.
2. No techs. Boring. But true.

Adventurer Class bonuses:

1. Worker You start a worker, sharing a tile with the warrior.

To Enter the Competition:

This competition will open on 15 January 2009. From that date, you'll be able to get the starting saves here. Use the same URL to submit your completed entry, which you must do by 15 February 2009.

Civ version

This game MUST be played in Beyond the Sword (NOT Warlords or vanilla Civ), patched to version 3.17. It must also be played with the HOF mod version 3.17.001. Note that for game security reasons this HOF mod version requires you to be logged in with an account that has admin privileges when you are playing for your game to be a valid entry to the GOTM competition. You'll see a warning dialog if you attempt to start a session without appropriate privileges.

While playing...

Remember - for your entry to be accepted, it MUST be your first attempt to play this game, and you MUST NOT replay any turns. If you make a mistake while playing, you have to live with it, learn from it, and carry on the game without replaying.

We will open 'spoiler' threads during the month for players to discuss what happens in their games. Do not discuss any details of your game outside those threads.

 

[PutCashIn]

Sometimes 5 days can seem like forever

 

[PaulisKhan]

Decisions decisions!
Space race for me.

I'm torn.

a) Move settler inland to maximise bureaucracy potential. Warrior location makes a good early GP farm for those crucal first GS, and will later develop into an excellent Moai city.

or

b) Settle in place to guarantee getting GLH, on a map in which it is potentially the most powerful wonder in the game.

any thoughts on the matter appreciated.

No warrior. Gone walkies. Probably in the sea and drowned.

-mental note- mandatory amphibious promotion for all units.

 

[oyzar]

Seems like GLH is the way to go, you can always move palace later on. You get cheap lighthouses which is nice, although not gamebreaking.

 

[srad]

Is a CS slingshot possible, assuming I will settle in place?

 

[PaulisKhan]

Is a CS slingshot possible, assuming I will settle in place?

Tough without gems to fuel early research on Monarch. I'm a big fan of the CS slingshot myself but unless I can reliably do it on a bunch of consecutive test maps I doubt I'll risk it here.

 

[srad]

Decisions decisions!
Space race for me.

I'm torn.

a) Move settler inland to maximise bureaucracy potential. Warrior location makes a good early GP farm for those crucal first GS, and will later develop into an excellent Moai city.

or

b) Settle in place to guarantee getting GLH, on a map in which it is potentially the most powerful wonder in the game.

any thoughts on the matter appreciated.

Almost certainly I'll also go for fastest space. And I'm thinking about the same problem. At the moment I tend to settle in place and go for the GLH. If there is stone somewhere I would probably go for the Pyramids (or both wonder?).

Think I will not try the CS slingshot, maybe grap COL or Metal Casting.

 

[Adonias]

MC is great for financial CIVs on this type of map, Colussus does wonders. Forges are handy for the happyness, but if that's all you're going for why not pop monarchy with the oracle. COL is nice for courthouses, which are cheap.

But in both cases I think it's worth more getting sailing over sea, for the trade routes, GLH for more traderoutes and put the shields in settlers to maximize the GLH.


How does the other continent penalty work btw? If culture boundaries meet, is it then another continent?

PS.
I'm a true random event fan
Latest game I got the "find the holy mountain" one... I think this is one of the most elaborate chalenge (at least it has the longest description): Either get every single mountain in your culture until you hit jackpot, or build 22 buildings of your state religion to help you find the holy mountain. Then get a settler halfway across the world... still in the fase of completing it...

Oh, and you fail if you change state religion... how's that for a condition

 

[Adama]

Most of you are not old enough to remember Hammy. I don't think the picture of Hamburger does him justice. Most of you know him because of his 280+ dictums (such as the one commonly quoted as "an eye for an eye"). First thats not exactly the way he said it, and secondly, did you know his brother-in-law was an eye-patch manufacturer?

He had tough feet, (he was always walking around barefooted), he was more frail than the picture represents (even though his commissioned busts show him more robust), he was religious to the point of being weird, and he ate a strict diet (which meant you couldn't stand within three feet of him because of his terrible breath). Okay, most of you saw this coming, but you just couldn't bring yourself to get out of the way, but I'd say Hammurabi was ... {drum roll please...}

a "Super Calloused Fragile Mystic Hexed By Halitosis" ....


Oh well ... an oldie but a goodie... like me. Good luck to everyone!

Adama

 

[srad]

Under "normal" circumstances, when do you build the first settler? As soon as possible or like me at pop 4 or 5 of the capital?
Didn't thought about this a long time but this question rose up. Normally my build order is something like this: worker - warrior - barracks - warrior -...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Most of you are not old enough to remember Hammy.

Wot, and you are? Gosh, you must be old!

 

[Monnet]

Looking forward to this one! I like being on an island, preferably on my own; it gives me a chance to last a a bit longer on the high difficulty levels.

I am thinking about settling on one of the tiles with a resource in it (not the fish ), and I imagine that I will only get the yield it gives without improvement, but I would be grateful if anybody could confirm this and try to dissuade me if it is a dumb idea. I normally settle in place, but I'm feeling adventurous this time.

BTW, I tried to find the answer in forums, but I couldn't. Thanks in advance.

 

[adrianj]

Looking forward to this one! I like being on an island, preferably on my own; it gives me a chance to last a a bit longer on the high difficulty levels.

I am thinking about settling on one of the tiles with a resource in it (not the fish ), and I imagine that I will only get the yield it gives without improvement, but I would be grateful if anybody could confirm this and try to dissuade me if it is a dumb idea. I normally settle in place, but I'm feeling adventurous this time.

BTW, I tried to find the answer in forums, but I couldn't. Thanks in advance.

If you settle directly on a resource you don't get any extra benefit at all. It doesn't even yield as much as the same tile without the improvement.
Eg, plains hill + sheep = 1 , 2
With pasture = 3 , 2 , 1
With city = 2 , 2 , 1 = just like every plains hill city.

As far as I know, the only useful time to settle directly on a resource is if you immediately want the benefit of something like copper or horses. Which probably only applies if you're planning some sort of rush.

I always find the best way to answer a lot of questions is to use the World Builder tool. Fire up a custom game and edit things to check whatever it is you want to know.

Under "normal" circumstances, when do you build the first settler? As soon as possible or like me at pop 4 or 5 of the capital?
Didn't thought about this a long time but this question rose up. Normally my build order is something like this: worker - warrior - barracks - warrior -...

Depends on what you consider "normal". If you're planning an axe rush and you need another city to grab some copper you might build a settler much earlier.
If you already have some good improved resources you might have great settler production at size 2 or 3 already.
I personally wouldn't build a barracks quite so early. I'd like to have a few more warriors out to explore earlier. But barracks does make a nice placeholder while you grow your city.

I've read a few times on these forums the danger of playing to a strict pattern. For example - you don't necessarily always build a worker first, you might start with a work boat to get nearby seafood, or a warrior to explore. Or just anything other than a worker to let the city grow if for example the surrounding tiles are already pretty good, or you won't have useful worker techs already, eg, surrounded by forest and you won't have BW immediately, or you're after an early religion.

 

[ShannonCT]

If you settle directly on a resource you don't get any extra benefit at all. It doesn't even yield as much as the same tile without the improvement.

Not always true. You can get 1 extra food on the city tile for settling on grassland with banana, sugar, corn, rice, sheep, pig, or cow. You get 1 extra hammer for settling on plains with stone, marble, copper, iron, elephant, or horse.

 

[haphazard1]

I like the starting position -- plains hill for an extra hammer, fresh water, decent food, decent hammers, and a couple happy resources down the line. It isn't a mega-capital but it isn't bad, and we can always move the capital later if a really outstanding site is found. Not sure how likely that is with snaky continents, but we will see.

Strong early push for the Great Lighthouse is a must, and an Oracle -> MC grab for the Colossus will be very beneficial as well. How close the neighbors are will drive a lot of decisions, but Aggressive and Organized make a military victory the obvious path. Probably means we have no nearby copper, horses, or iron -- conquer with bowmen!

 

[ChrisShaffer]

If you settle directly on a resource you don't get any extra benefit at all. It doesn't even yield as much as the same tile without the improvement.

Actually, you do get a bonus:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3376024&postcount=5

• Commerce Resources: When Dye, Gold, Gems, Incense, Fur, Silk, Silver, Spice, and Wine are next to a river, you will receive Two Extra Commerce when you settle on top of them.
• Food Resources: When Bananas, Rice, Sugar, Sheep, Corn, Cows, and Pigs are on Grassland Tiles Only (no hills) you are able to produce One Extra Food when you settle on top of them.
• Production Resources: When Coal, Copper, Iron, Marble, Oil, Stone, Aluminum, Horses, and Ivory are on Plains Tiles Only (not hills) you are able to produce One Extra Hammer when you settle on top of them.
• Now if these same resources are on a Plains/Hill tile you can produce Two Extra Hammers.

 

[kcd_swede]

I always find the best way to answer a lot of questions is to use the World Builder tool. Fire up a custom game and edit things to check whatever it is you want to know.

As every good researcher knows... a day in the lab can easily save you an hour in the library.

 

[kcd_swede]

Babylon starts with Agriculture and Wheel, I believe. I'm thinking that Fishing>Sailing should be early on the tech list (duh). Settling in place is reasonably OK, but with epic speed I think one can afford to move settler east a couple or twenty spaces to see if the grass really is greener on the other side. Where I settle would determine build order (and perhaps tech order). In place I would go AH and worker, and then fishing>sailing while building wb, and then mining/BW. But what I would look for in my wandering is a farmable food resource I can get in BFC from a coastal capitol.

I learned from the All War BOTM a hard lesson: if you make an incorrect assumption about the layout, you could really set yourself up for unecessary difficulties.

Imagine a snaky continent with a close neighbor blocking you from the bulk of the land. In such a situation, having some good land behind you to settle would be quite advantageous. Everything you leave behind the settler on this continent is yours eventually, but other good sites you might not reach in time.

Since the warrior is not positioned to help defog tiles prior to settling, I think a little settler wandering is a priority for me. I may decide to go back to the start position, but if so it will be a decision based on more knowledge than I have now. I do want sea access in the capitol in any archipelago map, but maybe I am an east coast kind of guy...

 

[Adonias]

I do tend to agree with kcd_swede. I've played a couple of test games with a farmable food resource, and it really speeds up early growth. Getting out settlers and workers early and fast is a big plus... searching for such a city is worth a couple of turns

 

[jesusin]

Under "normal" circumstances, when do you build the first settler? As soon as possible or like me at pop 4 or 5 of the capital?
Didn't thought about this a long time but this question rose up. Normally my build order is something like this: worker - warrior - barracks - warrior -...

Checking my BOTM and GOTM saves, I almost always go Worker-Warrior-Settler.

However, when I look at my HOF games, it usually is Worker-3or4*Warrior-Settler.

Why? Because you want to build your settler while working all the superb tiles (and there are many more of those on HOF games, where I choose incredibly good starting positions). Growing once more to be able to work an additional 2f1h tile is not worth it.