News: BOTM 18 - Starts 16 May

[cas]

@ beestar

On a typical Oasis map, all horses are in the northern greenbelt...or on the edge of it. All iron is in the desert...sometimes you might get lucky on the edge of desert. Copper is split up all over. Modern resources (oil/aluminum) are in the desert. Coal is split up all over.

So being in the bottom right corner the only strategic resources you had a shot at were copper and coal.

I've generated quite a few oasis maps and that is my experience. I don't say it is 100% guarantee, but every map I've generated followed those rules. BOTM maps may be edited though.

cas

 

[beestar]

Good to know - being ignorant of that cost me a lot in that game!

Knowing about that distribution of resources, it might be a good idea to - if possible - expand N/S rather than E/W ...

 

[Olmo2]

I started a few games with vixafox's test map (Thanks!).
Did not try the 'get out of the desert' strategy, but settled more or less in place.
My conclusion from these test games:
- Beeline archery is a must (or at least have it until 2000 BC)
- The Great Wall is a must (tried to build it in the 2nd city founded north of the capital). Otherwise your improvements get destroyed and you do not have enough units to defend them all.
- Settling on the gold seemed a bit better than settling 1W. The capital defense is easier and the barbs are less attracted by the gold.
- Hooking up copper helps alot to defend your 2 cities while GW is built. In one game the AI took my 2nd city while the GW was built there. When I had enough units to take it back, another AI had already conquered it.
- After GW is built pay attention to not expand to quickly. I did this competing with the fast expanding AI, settling some of the better desert spots and one coast city with horses in the north. But after that my economy crashed and I hopelessly fell behind in techs. One reason was that I mostly relied on farms instead of cottages to allow frequent whipping.

Maybe the idea of settling 2 north is not bad. This also gets you closer to the northern green belt.

 

[titanvol]

I started a few games with vixafox's test map (Thanks!).
Did not try the 'get out of the desert' strategy, but settled more or less in place.
My conclusion from these test games:
- Beeline archery is a must (or at least have it until 2000 BC)
- The Great Wall is a must (tried to build it in the 2nd city founded north of the capital). Otherwise your improvements get destroyed and you do not have enough units to defend them all.
- Settling on the gold seemed a bit better than settling 1W. The capital defense is easier and the barbs are less attracted by the gold.
- Hooking up copper helps alot to defend your 2 cities while GW is built. In one game the AI took my 2nd city while the GW was built there. When I had enough units to take it back, another AI had already conquered it.
- After GW is built pay attention to not expand to quickly. I did this competing with the fast expanding AI, settling some of the better desert spots and one coast city with horses in the north. But after that my economy crashed and I hopelessly fell behind in techs. One reason was that I mostly relied on farms instead of cottages to allow frequent whipping.

Maybe the idea of settling 2 north is not bad. This also gets you closer to the northern green belt.

I sort of disagree with this, i think beelining bw is the way to go for axes & slavery, then there comes the question of will we have copper, yes we will, here's why:

Spoiler :

Though the mapmakers often seem evil like in GOTM 42, they sometimes also give some hints via the map. In GOTM42 there were animals all around (pig, sheep, cow) leaning the player towards AH which also gave horses for chariots which because of the raging barbs seemed to be the determining factor in surviving that game. What do we have in this game -> gold leaning the player towards mining then bw. just my $.02

While axes are 10 shields more than the archers you get slavery at the same time so you can put out 2 axes faster than 2 archers until you also research mining / bw after researching hunting / archery for archers. bw has to come 1st, IMHO.

I absolutely will not settle the gold, im thinking about either the jungle or 1N of the gold, the jungle worked great in my test because of where the copper showed up (thanx vixafox for the map) I then fortified a couple of axes on the gold & defied barb archers crossing the river to dislodge me, which they could not. Of course this was only one test game . . .

 

[Gwyddelig]

I sort of disagree with this, i think beelining bw is the way to go for axes & slavery, then there comes the question of will we have copper, yes we will, here's why:

Spoiler :

Though the mapmakers often seem evil like in GOTM 42, they sometimes also give some hints via the map. In GOTM42 there were animals all around (pig, sheep, cow) leaning the player towards AH which also gave horses for chariots which because of the raging barbs seemed to be the determining factor in surviving that game. What do we have in this game -> gold leaning the player towards mining then bw. just my $.02

While axes are 10 shields more than the archers you get slavery at the same time so you can put out 2 axes faster than 2 archers until you also research mining / bw after researching hunting / archery for archers. bw has to come 1st, IMHO.

I absolutely will not settle the gold, im thinking about either the jungle or 1N of the gold, the jungle worked great in my test because of where the copper showed up (thanx vixafox for the map) I then fortified a couple of axes on the gold & defied barb archers crossing the river to dislodge me, which they could not. Of course this was only one test game . . .

There is a choice to be made here: Archers or (potentially) Axes & spears. The thing is, for any sort of production at all you need mining and that's a third of the way to bronzeworking. You also need bronzeworking for whipping. In one of my test games, archers were my choice but I didn't beeline them as such going mining>hunting>archery>bronzeworking. This actually worked reasonably well. Of course mining>BW might be a better idea and archers will necessarily be defensive except against warriors. Active defence is a must for keeping your tiles unpillaged If you have bronze. I think I'm going to take a gamble in the BOTM and go for BW. The hastily scramble for archery when any copper is well outside my boundaries...

Be advised as well, in my test games the AI spread like rabbits

 

[kcd_swede]

I sort of disagree with this, i think beelining bw is the way to go for axes & slavery, then there comes the question of will we have copper, yes we will, here's why:

Spoiler :

Though the mapmakers often seem evil like in GOTM 42, they sometimes also give some hints via the map. In GOTM42 there were animals all around (pig, sheep, cow) leaning the player towards AH which also gave horses for chariots which because of the raging barbs seemed to be the determining factor in surviving that game. What do we have in this game -> gold leaning the player towards mining then bw. just my $.02

.

I agree with your reasoning.

Just want to point out that in my experience, there won't be much time to hook up copper before barbs come streaming in. (Therefore, one should settle on top of the copper just to stay on the safe side... and to do that, eliminate jungle, gold, and flood plain tiles from settling consideration).

But one other thing: The first wave of barbs will be warriors, so even without copper BW gives you the opportunity to whip enough of them (x=double digits) to survive and then fogbust, especially with all that food lying around.

And if the gamemaker is intentionally misleading us... well... hunting/archery is doable before economic collapse.

 

[titanvol]

I agree with your reasoning.

Just want to point out that in my experience, there won't be much time to hook up copper before barbs come streaming in. (Therefore, one should settle on top of the copper just to stay on the safe side... and to do that, eliminate jungle, gold, and flood plain tiles from settling consideration).

But one other thing: The first wave of barbs will be warriors, so even without copper BW gives you the opportunity to whip enough of them (x=double digits) to survive and then fogbust, especially with all that food lying around.

And if the gamemaker is intentionally misleading us... well... hunting/archery is doable before economic collapse.

barbs started about 2000 BC in the tests, plenty of time to hook up copper if it was in BFC, the real problem is the first wave of archers comes right after the first wave of warriors. I hope to not settle on the copper either. I am thinking to make up for my GOTM42 loss I will handle this round of raging barbs better and the end result will have a small impact on my game so that when it comes spoiler time I wont be saying, "Because of the barbs . . ." but rather the barb situation will be a nuisance that I will handle well and will have had a minor impact on my overall game. Of course, this is very wishful thinking as I am still smarting from my GOTM42 loss and I am still in denial. I am hoping for copper in the desert so that I dont have to defend it, my axes can attack on flat land, copper on hill means I have to defend gold, copper, and capitol what worked really well in the test was a combination of defending & attacking. A defend only strategy keeps worker locked up in capitol. What I really wanna know is where our stone for the GW is going to be.

 

[wwassme]

What I really wanna know is where our stone for the GW is going to be.

Perhaps on the other side of the jungle? There has to be some reason that jungle was placed there to block our view. Jungle in the desert is not a natural occurrence. That's why I'm thinking of taking the settler 1NE to see what's back there and then probably going to the hill 2N to settle, unless I change my mind after what I see.

 

[Markus5]

Perhaps on the other side of the jungle? There has to be some reason that jungle was placed there to block our view. Jungle in the desert is not a natural occurrence.

Jungle is pretty common in the desert in oasis maps. I'm guessing that the jungle isn't part of the map builder's plan, but was put there by the initial map script.

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of the map builder?

However, I'm guessing that copper, stone and one food resource (corn in a desert tile?) will be 'close'. Please?

 

[cas]

I agree there is a high chance of copper on the plains tile. But I'm going to have a good laugh if there isn't. The same laugh if my settler gets eaten by an anmial on turn6 trying to flee the forsaken desert.



cas

 

[Welnic]

That jungle tile is grassland underneath. I think I'm going to go Mining-BW. If there isn't usable copper then the hammers are going to be so poor that whipping is going to be key even if I have to crank out archers. I'm leaning toward settling on the hill 2N, depending on what the warrior on hill turns up.

 

[Trystero]

I am thinking of moving from Noble to Prince, and I have been wanting to move outside my comfort zone, so I think I will try the Adventurer Class as my introduction to GOTM. I've never played Oasis maps or with raging barbs, so this will definitely be outside my comfort zone.

I have one question: I tried a couple of test games (just played the start, really) with these settings, and the RNG always places the start in the more fertile areas near the Northern or Southern edge of the map. Is the starting position shown here unusual? (That is, will I always get starts at the poles rather than the equator in Oasis games if I don't use WB?).

 

[cas]

@ Trystero

Yes, a normal generated oasis map will always place you in one of the two greenbelts (north or south). Game of the Month maps are usually edited. Desert start with raging barbs fits the storyline of the map creator (Niklas).

Quote from the opening page (first post):
"Suleiman is the rightful heir to the world, but has been tricked by his evil step-mother and her sons into exile in the desert , among the bandits and raiders that live there. Instead his eight step-brothers have divided the world between them. But Suleiman is plotting revenge, and needs your help."

cas

 

[Trystero]

@ cas:

Ah. Thanks. I guess I will use this as an opportunity to learn how to use WB as well. Thanks again!

Edit: Actually, after playing around with a test, I think the raging barbs are going to be more of an adjustment than the desert start.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If I try my usual warriors only fogbust (which works easily through immortal and often on deity on normal speed games) with raging barbs, it will really be tested. Hopefully we can abuse the spawn locations enough that they'll head for AI borders rather than our units or cities. Since it's a crowded map I'd not rule that out.

 

[Gwyddelig]

That jungle tile is grassland underneath. I think I'm going to go Mining-BW. If there isn't usable copper then the hammers are going to be so poor that whipping is going to be key even if I have to crank out archers. I'm leaning toward settling on the hill 2N, depending on what the warrior on hill turns up.

The problem is is, even with "The Whip", there's going to be masses of angry, beardy types turning up well before you have more than 1-2 archers. In my experience at least. YMMV.

 

[Trystero]

If I try my usual warriors only fogbust (which works easily through immortal and often on deity on normal speed games) with raging barbs, it will really be tested. Hopefully we can abuse the spawn locations enough that they'll head for AI borders rather than our units or cities. Since it's a crowded map I'd not rule that out.

I think the problem will be, as you said, the crowding on this map. In my prince test games, where I didn't move the start out of the greenbelts, I had a constant stream of encroaching barbs. I didn't try the fogbust trick from your deity games, though.

While they weren't fatal in my tests, raging barbs certainly nullified the Imperialistic trait by hampering early REX. OTOH, maybe being banished to the desert will mean fewer close neighbors, if the AI civ spawns remain in the green belts. Of course with a lot of surrounding un-busted fog, there could be a lot more barbs spawning. I'm not familiar enough with this map type to know what to expect.

 

[orb]

@beestar.

I found the same thing in the corner of one of my test games....I researched Mining/ Masonry deliberately to build GW as a priority. - I found Barb archers were just arriving on my doorstep by the time I could whip the wall....except waited for ivory/cats before DOWing. - (In my test game) my elephants are currently stomping all over my neighbours to try and take control of iron and horses. Makes for a fun game. - I'm going to try this when the save file opens.

 

[Fluxx]

Hmmm a question with which I got some problems.

I load the HOF mod, then when I try to load the testgame save it says: cannot load version 301, expected version 300 or lower...

Any idea what this is?

this is my version

Spoiler :

this is with the mod

 

[Ronnie1]

Hmmm a question with which I got some problems.

I load the HOF mod, then when I try to load the testgame save it says: cannot load version 301, expected version 300 or lower...

Any idea what this is?

this is my version

Spoiler :

this is with the mod

I believe you need the patch to version 3.17 and the HoF Mod version 3.17 to match.