[BTS] News: BOTM 251 Zulu, Immortal - Starts June 15, 2023

Thank you for putting this one together, kcd_swede!


Barbs are enabled and thus I would recommend keeping the Scout close to home for any Unit's 2-square-radius, Barbarian-spawn-busting ability.

What good is it to meet an AI early who might just decide to plot war against us? An AI cannot plot a war on a player that it has not met.

Meeting AIs later also makes diplomacy easier, as there will be less turns where we weren't being nice to an AI if we had not yet met that AI. AIs start counting from the turn that we met them as to whether we've been nice to them, or not. It's harder to be nice in the early game when we have not unlocked Open Borders, a Trade Network for Resource trades, or Tech trades.


Note that we have cheap Granaries and cheap Ikhandas, both of them initially costing us 30 Hammers, each.


Consider a Bronze-Working-beeline. Here's how I would propose doing it:
Complete a Worker, first. Farm the Flood Plains or else Farm an uncovered Food Resource. Only then build the Mine (a Gold Mine or a different Mine if we choose to settle on the Gold).

After the Worker, build 2 Warriors. Anything else can be built (or, more likely, partially built) on our way to City Size 3.

Keep the Scout nearby and use the Scout plus the 2 Warriors to spawn-bust the area, maximizing our chances of being able to peacefully settle 2 additional Cities.

Assume that there won't be any Worker-stealing happening and thus at City Size 3, build a second Worker! You will thank me, later! :)

Aim to have a Worker arrive on a Forest on the turn before completing Research on Bronze Working.

After researching Bronze Working, research Fishing, but put the first 2 Forest Chops into a Settler.

After researching Fishing, the first Work Boat can be quickly Whipped. The second Work Boat can be built more slowly, as we won't have a lot of Happiness to work with from the Difficulty Level plus some early Whipping, even with the +1 Happiness from the Gold Resource if we settle on the same River as the Gold (note that we would also be on the "same" River as the Gold if we chose to settle on top of the Gold ;) ).

Try to settle City 2 near Copper, but lacking Copper, settle strategically.

One approach would be to settle to block off some land if there are AIs nearby. Another approach could be to settle close with some squares overlapping with the capital's big fat cross, to save on Maintenance Costs, to get Trade Routes up earlier, and possibly to share a Crab Resource if there aren't other good Resources nearby and if there isn't a threat of AIs stealing other future City locations.

The Wheel plus Pottery come next, for Trade Routes, for hopefully connecting-up Copper, and for cheap Granaries.


A Flood Plains square can be later Cottaged, if you have such a fetish, while still building an early Farm on top of it, first. Building the second Worker early on gives us extra flexibility with Worker turns. The early +1 Food from the Flood Plains square, again assuming no Agriculture Food Resources being revealed, will be worth the invested Worker turns.


Even without beelining Bronze Working, I'd build Worker-first over Warrior-first no matter what our other opening moves are.

If we choose to go for Fishing first, building a partial Warrior and then a Work Boat will give us quite a slow start. It really hurts not to have any Worker turns for a long period of time. I'd instead suggest finishing the Worker and then building a Work Boat, as the Worker can already start paying for itself quite quickly. With extra Hammers from settling on a Plains Hills square and from any turn where we can earn at least 4 raw Hammers, the Worker will arrive faster than its typical 15 turns. How many turns until the first Work Boat could be completed? Probably more turns than it would take to complete the Worker, and the benefit of the Worker is that it keeps improving the land over time, while the Work Boat's Hammers can only contribute to improving 1 square. Rushing to get a Netted Crab just to have a Food Resource for a citizen to work while building a Worker might help on some maps, but it isn't that great of a play on a map like this one where we have the Expansive Trait (the Crab's Food does not get a Hammer bonus), where we have a City Centre Plains Hills square to shorten the Worker's build time, and where we don't start with Fishing.
Incidentally, CactusPete scored a LOT of gold medals. He once told me his secret was building a second worker early on. Of course that’s finger nails on the blackboard to WastinTime. 😀
 
I also did some testing but location of a strategic resource or presence of more food on nearby tiles changes the results so dramatically so that I got discouraged from testing more before being able to do 1-2 turns of scouting :(. It does seem to be potentially crowded map and that we can be sc****d without copper nearby.
One of the hardest things for me to do is stop after turn 1 or 2 and do some testing. That’s what you’re talking about. 😎

If I were you, I’d focus on grabbing territory asap. With 2x4f2c + gold you can get to IW fast, if needed. Chances are you have copper, horses or iron.
 
One of the hardest things for me to do is stop after turn 1 or 2 and do some testing. That’s what you’re talking about. 😎

If I were you, I’d focus on grabbing territory asap. With 2x4f2c + gold you can get to IW fast, if needed. Chances are you have copper, horses or iron.

Yep :). My best played games are ones when I had to wait for days for delayed Mac save :lol: . Otherwise stopping to sandbox is very hard, initial discovery is always the most exciting parts, before my hopes for doing well are crashed ;).
 
What good is it to meet an AI early who might just decide to plot war against us? An AI cannot plot a war on a player that it has not met.

Meeting AIs later also makes diplomacy easier, as there will be less turns where we weren't being nice to an AI if we had not yet met that AI. AIs start counting from the turn that we met them as to whether we've been nice to them, or not. It's harder to be nice in the early game when we have not unlocked Open Borders, a Trade Network for Resource trades, or Tech trades.

Thank you @Dhoomstriker for such detailed analysis. I learned a lot and never considered disadvantages of meeting AIs early (other than chance of losing scout or not scouting my surroundings thorough fully
 
Seems like settling on the PH and building worker first is best. A rather unimaginative opening sequence but sometimes it's better to stay in the box and not wander too far outside of it with your thoughts :lol: . In the starting screenshot it looks like there is more ocean to the south-east so the probability of spotting a juicy corn tile with the scout is not high.
Thinking outside the box is always good, but playing inside the box is often better. :shifty:
 
No time to finish the previous Botm and with immortal level no chance to survive this one. At least you didn't insult us by providing an adventurer save, after all who isn't going to take the challenger and play at deity level, right?
The mapmaker's definition of fun may differ from the players'. I hate maps where I am forced to fight against superior enemies at an early date when they have all the advantages.
Play... you might be surprised. This map is brought to you by the rng, and I just added some tiles to make it possible for me to win. :lol:
 
LowtherCastle said:
Settling near copper or to block off an AI may require some scouting, which conflicts with keeping the scout near home.
My concept is a bit different. If Copper is far away, I will not plan to settle by it and will have to fit in Animal Husbandry, possibly before The Wheel and Pottery.

If we are instead willing to forego comprehensive spawn-busting and will be willing to escort our City #2 Settler with 2 or 3 Warriors to our Far-Away-Copper Location, then sure, we can go right ahead and use the Scout for distant exploration so that we may settle by Copper, even if it is far away. It's simply a different way of playing, that's all. Certainly, you demonstrated your nerves-of-steel for far-away settling in BOTM 252!

Consider that yet a third way of playing would be to go for early Fishing and to temporarily use a second (or a third) Work Boat as an Early Invincible Spawn-Buster until we get a second City in place.


Thus, if I do not reveal Copper nearby, I will not deploy a valuable Spawn-Busting Scout by sending it far away, likely to its death. A well-placed Spawn-Busting Scout, such as to the east of our capital's area that looks to be mostly Coastal, can even avoid any form of combat if it can spawn-bust that area completely after our Cultural Borders expand.

On the higher Difficulty Levels, where there aren't Free Wins or Combat Bonuses against Barbs in the field, early combat with Barbs can be quite risky. Here, players are on Immortal or Deity, and thus it can give more players a fighting chance to play a strong, flexible, yet conservative, opening.


LowtherCastle said:
Better might be to use the warrior(s) to spawnbust the nearby territory.
In my proposal, the 2 Warriors are meant to spawn-bust the nearby west and/or south, opening up multiple possible nearby settling locations with relatively low risk for City #2's Settler to arrive at the desired location. I'd rather not reveal a nice settling location but be denied the possibility of settling there, as happened to me in BOTM 252 with its High-Difficulty-Level Barbs (I played the Deity Saved Game in that game).


In my proposal, even if Barbs descend upon our empire in force, we will have plenty of advance-warning from our multiple spawn-busters before their Units possibly kill off our spawn-busters and reach our Cultural Borders, allowing the early Whipping ability (from unlocking Bronze Working early enough for Whipping Unhappiness to have started to cool off) to save the empire in the worst of conditions. 1 Whipped Population Point = 2 Warriors given even 1 turn to put at least 1 Hammer into the first Warrior to Whip. Even if it comes to defending a City from Barbs with a Warrior, our Warrior will get +25% City Defence bonus against Barbs.


LowtherCastle said:
CactusPete scored a LOT of gold medals. He once told me his secret was building a second worker early on. Of course that’s finger nails on the blackboard to WastinTime.
CactusPete plays XOTM games while WastinTime has a lot of Hall-Of-Fame games in his background. CactusPete just has to "one-up" the human competition on the same map, which could work with such a tactic, as most of us have ingrained the idea of building an immediate Worker #1 but with no real advance plan for the timing of building Worker #2.

For Hall-Of-Fame, WastinTime was playing cooked maps (meaning: generated with the help of the Map Finder tool), often with hand-picked AIs. Even when a Hall-Of-Fame Gauntlet game proposes your AI opponents, you usually have the flexibility to add in additional AIs of your choosing. His competition is mostly about facing off against his pre-selected AIs, as no other player is allowed to play the same map that he played.

It's just a different style of playing, but for XOTM, where we cannot choose the AI opponents (and thus we cannot be guaranteed to include push-over AIs from whom it is not that risky to steal a Worker), I'd put stronger stock in what CactusPete said in regard to self-building an early Worker #2, as he had been playing the same map against the rest of us. (Of course, if everyone starts planning when to build Worker #2, you'll want to start planning ahead to when to build Worker #3, to stay ahead of the rest of us. ;) )

Consider that WastinTime also claimed that he rarely self-techs Construction as AIs will typically trade it to him, while in XOTM games, I find that it's rare to get that Tech in trade, with some maps showcasing all of the AIs having learned Construction and still being unwilling to trade it to us. After having also played many Hall-Of-Fame games with self-cooked maps, I agree with WastinTime that it's pretty easy to get Construction in trade when you can ensure that Mansa or an AI that you can easily get to Friendly Diplomacy Status is in nearly all of your games.


LowtherCastle said:
I understood his message as encouragement to High King to try the game and not worry about how difficult it might be.
I agree with this interpretation and I also support said message. I also wrote up my proposed opening to "level the playing field" a bit more for such players who lack the needed confidence to just try out the game, even if doing so makes the competition stronger.
 
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