[BTS] News: BOTM 262: Saladin, Prince - starts November 15

[kcd_swede]

BOTM 262: Saladin of Arabia.

[img=right]https://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/botm262civ.jpg[/img]

You will play on Prince difficulty level, with a rocky fractal map and medium sea level. Goody huts closer than 8 tiles from your starting position have been removed.

Game settings:
Playing as: Saladin of Arabia
Rivals: 6 AIs
Difficulty: Prince
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Normal
Options: No vassal states
Victory Conditions: All enabled

Map settings:
Map: Fractal, Rocky, Medium sea level
World Wrap: Cylindrical
Mapsize: Standard
Climate: Rocky
Sea level: Medium
Map latitudes: -90°S to 90°N


Saladin is Protective and Spiritual, and you start with Mysticism and The Wheel.

The Protective trait gives free City Garrison I and Drill I promotion for archery and gunpowder units and double production speed of Castle and Walls

The Spiritual trait gives no anarchy and double production speed of Temple and Cristo Redentor

Unique unit: Camel Archer (replaces Knight)
The camel archer is slightly more likely to survive combat than the knight, since it has a 15% withdrawal chance. But its real strength is that it requires no resources to build (the knight requires both iron and horses). The camel archer does require you to have researched archery, which isn't necessary for the horse archer - but that probably won't be an issue by the time you have the other pre-requisites of guilds and horseback-riding!

Unique Building: Madrassa (replaces Library)
The madrassa gives extra culture: +4/turn instead of the +2/turn of the library. And where the library lets you turn two citizens into scientists, the madrassa lets you run two scientists AND two priests! Hope your city has lots of food!

Starting screenshot

This is the start of the game (click for a bigger image):



Adventurer Class bonuses:
No adventurer class

Challenger Class Equalizers:
Play the game at Immortal difficulty level if you need a bigger challenge. Opponents start with Prince level units, however.

To Enter the Competition:

This competition will open at 00:01 am on 15 Nov 2023, server local time (UTC-6:00). From that date and time, you'll be able to get your chosen starting save >>>here<<<.

Submit the save after your victory (or defeat) here, by 15 Dec 2023.

Here is a link to a list of the differences between Vanilla, Warlords and BtS.

Software Versions

Windows: This game MUST be played in Beyond the Sword (NOT Civ4 Vanilla or Warlords), patched to version 3.19, and with the BUFFY mod version 3.19.005 installed. You can download the BUFFY mod here. Players using Windows Vista or Windows 7 are encouraged to read the notes on Vista fixes here.


Macintosh: This game MUST be played in Beyond the Sword (NOT Civ4 Vanilla or Warlords), patched to version 3.19, and with the Mac BUFFY mod version 3.19.003 installed. You can download the Mac BUFFY mod here.

While playing...

Remember - for your entry to be accepted, it MUST be your first attempt to play this game, and you MUST NOT replay any turns. If you make a mistake while playing, you have to live with it, learn from it, and carry on the game without replaying.

We will open 'spoiler' threads during the month for players to discuss what happens in their games. Do not discuss any details of your game outside those threads.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Yay for Prince of Camels! But how will these poor animals do in such a rocky terrain

In terms of settling, probably SIP, but first warrior 1SE to peek

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

So many hills, is that a good or a bad thing?

 

[Fine_Distinction]

So many hills, is that a good or a bad thing?

Depends but based on description, I was expecting mountains, so could be worse ...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

With a rocky climate, I'd expect the map to be full of hills, so I suspect the start is quite typical. Production generally won't be an issue, but getting enough food might be harder. SIP looks like an excellent production site, but not so good for long term commerce, which is what I'd really want the capital for. Moving 1W brings more riverside tiles and I suspect a higher probability of food on an unseen tile, but I'm not sure if it's worth losing a turn and a forest for that.

Unfortunately, I can't see anywhere the warrior could move to that would help decide. Moving him East or SE reveals the most nearby tiles but it's unlikely I'd want to settle in that direction. Moving the warrior 1SW reveals one tile which looks like it's probably uninteresting forest anyway. Moving NW might reveal seafood that's too far away to be of immediate interest. So I think whatever the warrior does, for me it'll be a toss-up between SIP and settle 1W.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

So you value riverside more than potential food? I was thinking moving *towards* our best food (pig) while staying riverside (1E) makes a lot of sense, but first I was planning to scout with warrior. The SIP and 1E have also advantage of worker starting to work on pig same turn.

 

[Smiregal]

@Fine_Distinction: What do you mean by "advantage of worker starting to work on pig same turn"? If one moves 1E you lose a Turn so it cant be the same Turn and it is a hilled pig so you lose a turn moving on it. Also there is no way to get to AH before you finish the worker, if you start building it as soon as you settle. Ok maybe by working the rivergrassland tile. Not sure if thats worth it.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

@Fine_Distinction: What do you mean by "advantage of worker starting to work on pig same turn"? If one moves 1E you lose a Turn so it cant be the same Turn and it is a hilled pig so you lose a turn moving on it. Also there is no way to get to AH before you finish the worker, if you start building it as soon as you settle. Ok maybe by working the rivergrassland tile. Not sure if thats worth it.

You are right, I am playing the Asoka BOTM now with the fast worker, so then moving E or W would both lose 1T on settling but at least access to pigs would be easier. But you are right that with normal worker and pig on a hill it is the same, and the main issue here are our abysmal starting techs - I was assuming we will have at least Hunting or Agri, but no .

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

I'm looking for some advice on leveraging the Protective trait... Castles worth it or more of a distraction? And what about the priests from the UB... worth it or distraction?

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I'm looking for some advice on leveraging the Protective trait... Castles worth it or more of a distraction? And what about the priests from the UB... worth it or distraction?

Not an expert, but online now

* Protective - Drill line of promotions for crossbows, otherwise Pro is considered a very weak treat
* Walls = normally useless (you should not plan to defend your cities) except for a very sophisticated trick with whipping and unhooking stone
* Castles - also not typically used, but have a potentially interesting +25% espionage bonus (for espionage/culture victory) and an extra trade route
* Madrasa - potentially very useful, if you have +8 extra food, you can have a Great Person in 9 turns! and 50/50 chance of a Great Scientist, which a lot of people aim at early on. Great Prophets are less great (pun intended), but also have their uses: you can try to bulb Theology for a quick AP victory, they can also build shrines (if you have a holy city, +1 city of the religion/turn) or be settled (+2, +5), which is normally not that tempting, but that early can actually help a lot.

 

[Smiregal]

@Jimmy Thunder: Yea everything what Fine_Distiction said. On higher Difficulties or in always war Protective could be helpful when you are attacked. On Prince you are doing something wrong if an AI is attacking you. The Madrasa on the other hand can be useful with its +4 Culture you can takeover keytiles from an ai. I would not go for a 50/50 chance but one could argue that adding on or to Priests to get a great Person earlyer can be worth it. Espcialy if you founded a religion for the shrine or if you want to go for an early AP (Religious Victory) by bulbing theology. But since this is Fractal it is possible that you cant reach some AIs before Optics. And for Culture Victories the Theo bulb could be handy. The UU however if you manage to get it early (this start is not optimal in this regard) can be quiet good on Prince and noble.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

So you value riverside more than potential food? I was thinking moving *towards* our best food (pig) while staying riverside (1E) makes a lot of sense, but first I was planning to scout with warrior. The SIP and 1E have also advantage of worker starting to work on pig same turn.

No, I value foor more than riverside. But moving 1W keeps the pigs and cows, so doesn't lose any of the food we can see, and gives the possibility of more food in the unseen tiles. Even if there is no more food, it looks like you get more grassland and fewer hills. Moving 1E loses riverside tiles but I don't think it's any more likely to give extra food than moving 1W; In my experience, the map generator very rarely puts multiple land food next to each other, so I'm assuming none of the tiles next to the pig are likely to have food - so it's only the tiles further East that might have something. I think on that basis, settling 1W easily beats settling 1E. And 1W would easily beat SIP if it wasn't for the lost turn. I feel that lost turn makes it it a toss-up between SIP and 1W.

 

[Powerfaker]

When grassland is sparse I would rather not settle on it. I also don't think we can conclude there's more grassland in the west than in the east (or vice versa) from what we can see. So I might pick the hill 1E, depends a little on what the warrior can uncover (doesn't look like much, hill + forest + ...), but actually lean more to picking a hill south (1SW for a bit more river) => abandon the cow, hope for a nicer food resource instead. Sure the cow is a power tile, just not for growth, so it's not that big of a gamble (?).

It's probably a good idea to go agri-AH and farm a grassland while waiting for pastures..

 

[Fine_Distinction]

No, I value foor more than riverside. But moving 1W keeps the pigs and cows, so doesn't lose any of the food we can see, and gives the possibility of more food in the unseen tiles. Even if there is no more food, it looks like you get more grassland and fewer hills. Moving 1E loses riverside tiles but I don't think it's any more likely to give extra food than moving 1W; In my experience, the map generator very rarely puts multiple land food next to each other, so I'm assuming none of the tiles next to the pig are likely to have food - so it's only the tiles further East that might have something. I think on that basis, settling 1W easily beats settling 1E. And 1W would easily beat SIP if it wasn't for the lost turn. I feel that lost turn makes it it a toss-up between SIP and 1W.

Ah, makes sense - I was doing a crude calc more tiles to reveal = higher chance of food, but good point, thank you for the info!

 

[Smiregal]

When grassland is sparse I would rather not settle on it. I also don't think we can conclude there's more grassland in the west than in the east (or vice versa) from what we can see. So I might pick the hill 1E, depends a little on what the warrior can uncover (doesn't look like much, hill + forest + ...), but actually lean more to picking a hill south (1SW for a bit more river) => abandon the cow, hope for a nicer food resource instead. Sure the cow is a power tile, just not for growth, so it's not that big of a gamble (?).

It's probably a good idea to go agri-AH and farm a grassland while waiting for pastures..

I aggree with all you said especially the Agri tec first. I also thougt about moving of the grassland because of the scacity. The only thing I am not sure about is abandoning the cow. I it is like you said a Powertile you have for certain. The pig, cow, and riverfarm have decent growth at the begining. My arguments against it are first that if you dont find anything you will baldy miss it and you are wagering somthing you have for certain against somthing you might have. Second is that if there is no seafood up north the cow will mostlikely not come into play for a long time.
Everything I said are of course mute points if you end up finding agri recources (maybe irrigated) in the south. If Im inclined to move I would go 1E.

 

[Frederiksberg]

A challenging setup except for the prince level. Protective is not a very useful trait on the lower difficulty levels and castles go obsolete almost before you are done building them. Starting techs are also bad. I'm tempted to do a walkabout with the settler.

 

[ariosto]

I will check NW with warrior. If there is fish I will probably settle N-NW on the plains hill. Otherwise I'll SIP.
How many turns does Agri-AH take on Prince? Working riverside grassland might be an okay idea. This start is tricky.

Castles worth it or more of a distraction?

It is a distraction. Might be worth it for the Espionage Economy, but the Espionage Economy itself doesn't make sense on Prince.
I think PRO exists mostly to annoy the human player in case nearby AIs have it.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Spoilers?

 

[kcd_swede]

Thanks for the reminder... spoiler threads are up!

 

[antimony]

I will check NW with warrior. If there is fish I will probably settle N-NW on the plains hill. Otherwise I'll SIP.
How many turns does Agri-AH take on Prince? Working riverside grassland might be an okay idea. This start is tricky.

I'm playing Immortal which has Agri on turn 10 and AH on turn 24, enough time for worker to build a river farm (3F 1C is not bad before our pastures are up) and a road. On Prince you would probably still build the farm.