News: GOTM 16 Pre-Game Discussion

[ainwood]

GOTM 16: Montezuma

[img=right]http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/leaders/leaders0017.jpg[/img]

This month, the difficulty comes back down to earth, and we have what should be a fun, quick game.

This game MUST be played in patch version 1.61. We will NOT accept any games played under any other patch versions, and you can't play it in warlords!

Further, it MUST be played using HOF mod version 1.61.010.




Game settings:
Civilization: Aztec (Leader: Montezuma ; Traits: Aggressive, Spiritual)
Rivals: 4
Difficulty: Prince
Map: Pangea
Mapsize: Small
Climate: cold
Water level: Low
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Normal
Options: Aggressive AI, Raging Barbs
Victory Conditions: all enabled

Montezuma:
Montezuma is Aggressive and Spiritual; starting with Hunting and Mysticism. Aggressive allows a free combat 1 promotion for melee & gunpowder units, and double production speed of barracks and drydocks. Spiritual allows no anarchy when changing civics, as well as double production speed of temples.

Unique unit: Jaguar:
The Jaguar replaces the standard swordsman. The strength is reduced by 1 to 5, and the cost is reduced by 5 hammers from 40 to 35. In addition to the 10% attack bonus for cities, the Jaguar receives an additional 25% defensive bonus for jungle. Critically, unlike the swordsman, it is a resourceless unit - you don't need to have secured iron.

The starting screenshot is here (click for a bigger version!)


Adventurer Class bonuses:

1. Start knowledge of mining.
2. Start with a worker.

Challenger Class Equalisers:

1. All other civilizations begin with an archer.
2. All other civilizations start with a bonus tech.

 

[jesusin]

A quick conquest should be easy. I will try a minimalistic approach, completely focusing on conquest.

The initial scout movement should be crucial to decide where to settle. I think I will move it SW-NW, but N-NW looks promising too.

 

[The Mad Swede]

This map looks perfect for Jaguar rushing everyone. Gotta watch out for those barbs though. I have been wanting to try fast conquest for a while now so this should be fun.

 

[BLubmuz]

This one looks fun, pity for the normal speed, but the small map and the low difficulty can help.
Raging barbs... at this level they're a problem, but not a nightmare.
Aggressive AI... less than us, a lot less.

A practice game can help, and i need some of those settings for my Quattromaster, then it's perfect.

 

[Vynd]

The starting spot looks like it would be a really nice city, but the hill over by the flood plain might be even better...

Will anyone not try for Conquest with these settings? Should I deliberately pursue a Cultural victory or something so I'll have some shot at an award? Hmm...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I actually was thinking a few days ago of going for conquest, but now I've seen what the game is I'll probably go for culture or spacerace instead. (a) because of the perception that almost everyone else will do conquest, and (b) because on this map if I go for conquest the game will probably be over in about 2 hours and then I'll have nothing to do for two weeks

 

[Markus5]

It might be fun to try a cultural victory. The aggressive trait and UU will make expansion and defense much easier. I think I'll need to play a few test games with these settings.

 

[wwassme]

What does the "Aggressive AI" setting do? How much more aggressive than normal are they?

 

[Khalid]

The initial scout movement should be crucial to decide where to settle. I think I will move it SW-NW, but N-NW looks promising too.

I think that the scouting wont help you. If you move SW-NW you will see the two forest, which are visible now and nothing more.

The N-NW might reveal something, but I just think there forest/jungle all around, expecially in this tropical climate.

The whole game just looks like a run for conquest. It was my idea also. Now, after the second thought I might choose some other to increase the chance od award.

To ainwood: Thank you. You must be a seer. I am moving to a new flat this month, so this fast and small map fits perfectly.

 

[Antoninus]

If you settle in place, you can't use that floodplain in the lower southwest. What about moving the settler one south? You'd still have the two resources, plus you'd add the floodplain?

On the other hand, you'd lose two hills in the north, so you would gain growth but lose production.

Never mind. Maybe I just talked myself out of my own idea.

 

[Mad Professor]

If you settle in place, you can't use that floodplain in the lower southwest. What about moving the settler one south? You'd still have the two resources, plus you'd add the floodplain?

On the other hand, you'd lose two hills in the north, so you would gain growth but lose production.

Never mind. Maybe I just talked myself out of my own idea.

Yes - I'm thinking that the flood plain (and possible other flood plains nearby can be used by a second city...

 

[Mad Professor]

What does the "Aggressive AI" setting do? How much more aggressive than normal are they?

The AI are less happy at the same number. For example, on normal setting, the AI might be 0 cautioius when you first meet. Under these settings they are more likely to be 0 annoyed when you first meet. Later on, where +2 might have been pleased for a particular AI, on these settings +2 will be cautious. You just have to achieve higher plusses (or lower minuses) to get a certain attitude.

 

[Mad Professor]

The starting spot looks like it would be a really nice city, but the hill over by the flood plain might be even better...

Will anyone not try for Conquest with these settings? Should I deliberately pursue a Cultural victory or something so I'll have some shot at an award? Hmm...

<chuckle> Conquest is a rare enough victory type for me that I'll take the oppertunity to go for it this time! When I do play that way it's with Keshiks as Mongolia, so this will be way out of my normal playing style to go for conquest

 

[slowrider]

Ran some test games to get an idea of when the AI pops wonders with the challanger settings. For 10 games I got the following average and (minimum/maximum) turns for the AI to finish the early to mid religions/wonders.

Buddism 11 (8-14)
Hindu 20 (10-41)
Judism 55 (35-69)
Confu 114 (90-137)
Christ 124 (82-156)
Tao 158 (125-186)
Islam 196 (184-205)

Stonehen 92 (69-133)
Oracle 100 (82-121)
Pyramids 121 (100-150)
Parth 137 (119-161)
Gr Light 145 (130-166)
Great Lib 180 (148-195)
Hang Gard 185 (138-200)
Colossus 188 (132-202)

A few observations from clicking through the games:

Obviously it's a small map and everyone gets to know each other very quickly. You won't have any advantage for being "better connected" so it will probably be more imporant than usual to keep Alphabet to yourself for as long as possible.

With all of the jungle it will be a while before roads make connections for resource trading and for foreign trade routes. If this is a priority it will be much faster to connect via Sailing along with open borders and make sure you explore and reveal a coastline connection.

I didn't find there to be jungle everywhere on this kind of map but there is at least one large jungle area. There will be civs located in more forested regions and that will be much to their advantage in the early going. It looks like we could be pinned between a massive jungle to the north and ocean to the south. If that's the case it's not a great place to be.

The barb situation seems highly dependent on proximety to jungle and whether or not you are buffered by other civs. On the maps where you're alone next to a large jungle (which could be the case here) you're going to get a steady stream. I don't usually do archers but may this time.

The Pryamids were built several times (out of 10 runs) at or around turn 100 but this was only if the civ had access to stone. Otherwise it was closer to 150. The map may be small enough to explore in time to know what you're up against. If you can build them soon enough the chances of getting the Great Library (via a GE) seems very high. The GL was much more consistantly built toward the later end of the range (I think because the AI is rather slow to tech Literature).

 

[Jove]

I might like to play for other than conquest too... maybe space.

Starting 1 tile south might be good for a long game. Could get a lot of early GP's with a 3-food tile capitol, and it would be a better cash-cow in the long run. We'd gain the hill we're on for giving up the forest hill, and it frees up the north for settling. Looks workable.

 

[=FC=Gorgon]

I've never actually attempted a conquest before. I generally prefer the other victory types, but this does seem like it was tailor made for a conquest victory. Might as well be my first attempt.

Out of curiousity, when attempting a conquest win, do most people do the CS slingshot? Or in this case, are you better off getting the techs for the Jaguar UU and just cranking out the armies ASAP?

G

 

[Affirmative]

I think I'll probably move my scout 1 E 1 NE. If there's a food resource in sight I'll probably put my settler on the forest plain hill NE-E. Probably not as good as 1 S or 1 E immediately, but with the amount of jungle around, it'll probably be nice to have at least two solid cities without having to do some serious bushwhacking.

 

[Thrallia]

Gorgon: Most of the fastest conquest players do not even reach CS in tech before they are finished.

If you are considering a quick conquest, wonders are pretty much out of the question. In WOTM5, I spent 35 turns building 4 early wonders, then went entirely military for the rest of the game, if I hadn't done that, I could have cut at least 75 turns off my time. The earlier you start, the faster you'll finish.

 

[The Lance]

I"m thinking of heading SE to settle. Then beelining for the great wall, let the AI deal with the barbs

 

[Jastrow]

I"m thinking of heading SE to settle. Then beelining for the great wall, let the AI deal with the barbs

Hmmmm.... This game is for vanila.... No GW...