News: GOTM 32 First Spoiler

[ainwood]

GOTM 32 First Spoiler

Reading Requirements

1. Defeated already.... or
2. Have survived until at least 0 AD

Posting Restrictions

1. Please don't discuss events post 500 AD.

 

[hellwitch]

Am furious. In the first try Sal declare on me before 2000BC with 2 charriots vs mine only warrior. Game Over.

Moderator Action: Deleted possible spoiler info re. this and another game - AlanH

 

[Erkon]

Same story hear, but it was Alex around 2500 BC. I replayed with same results. It's a very nice map and definitely possible to win, but those random DoW is really annoying The luck part of deity is a bit too important for my taste...

Thanks for the map though!

 

[ssjos]

Settled on forested plainhill to east, built worker fishboat warrior then

Got DoWed by alexander in 2700 BC, 2 chairots and 2 archers. I had 1 warrior in base, one worker and 1 warrior exploring.

game over.

Is there anything you can do to prevent this or is it just bad luck?

 

[JackOfClubs]

With deep misgivings I decided to play this month after all. In 4 out of 6 practice games I died in the BC era. I consider this game won in that I actually outlast the real Julius (44 BC). As of 500 AD, I am still alive:

Spoiler :

4000 BC: Move the warrior SE to the plains hill. He can see that there is nothing in that direction, as I suspected. In fact it is worse than I thought as there are 2 mountains and I only guessed 1 desert. Settle in place and research BW while I build a warrior. Normally I would consider that a waste, but I want to bump up my power rating early. Working the unimproved gold hill will pop the warrior in 8 turns and shave 2 turns off the research to BW. I will switch to the ivory when the border pops. I see what looks like Egyptian borders to the S so Hatty's capital is probably 5S of my start. Not a bad neighbor, temperamentally, but I would rather not have a creative border so close.

3970 BC: Oops. There are pigs E of the desert hill so the plains hill would have been a viable start after all. Well, as I said in the pre-game discussion, I might have tried that if I had a scout but as it is it would have been a gamble. I am not sure that even now I would have done anything different, but that might make a decent 2nd city if I get the chance.

3880 BC: There are flood plains and gold E of the pigs, but also Louis. Grr. Two creative neighbors fairly close. Do I detect a theme? As long as Kathy isn't breathing down my neck, I should be OK, but this is going to make early expansion even more difficult.

3760 BC: The warrior comes in on the same turn as the border pop. Saladin's scout is now visible to the NW. I decide to work the plains hill instead of the elephants to churn out a work boat in 11 turns. This sacrifices a lot of growth but at least I will have a 4F2C tile when building the worker, and it comes on the 19th turn rather than the 23rd so I think I am still ahead of my normal worker-1st approach. The warrior may have been a mistake as my power rating is still pathetic, but it might be enough to ward off attacks by my non-aggressive neighbors.

Louis plants a settler on the plains hill to the SE, getting the pigs, gold and flood plains in his fatX. Nothing much I could have done about that.

3610 BC: Alex is to the NW. Crap. My 1st aggressive opponent, and a psychotic one to boot. Well, it looks like he is between me and Salah, so perhaps they will get in a religious argument and leave me alone. Hatty's second city is in a crappy location. Silver and deer, but lots of ice and tundra too. My 1st warrior is taking the long walk around Louis while my 2nd explores to the W.

3310 BC: The workboat is done and I ... wait a minute! Did I screw something up? This is turn 23 and I expected that boat 4 turns ago. Looking at the city manager, I see that I have been working the ivory after all. Well, I could have shaved a couple of turns off BW the other way, but now I only have 5 turns before a pop (after switching to work the clams) so no big loss. It was a controversial move to begin with. BW due in 2.

3250 BC: BW in and the nearest copper is in the desert tile W of Louis' second city. Damn. Nothing I could have done about it but, just damn.

2500 BC: Saladin beats me to settling the gems to the NW. I now notice that he has another city on my NE border as well, which was camoflaged by the trees in that area. Well, my settler can still get the gold/banana city to the W and the mountains make a nice barrier to Alex if he decides to get fiesty.

2350 BC: Yikes! I almost spoke too soon. Founded Antium on the plain 2E of the gold getting the bananas in the fat cross, eventually. But the new border pushed an exploring party of Alex back through the mountains, which contained a settler! One turn more and I would have been stuck in OCC mode with a useless settler hanging around. I just hope that there is iron nearby or I am totally screwed. My second warrior is still trapped in the SE by Louis and Hatty, neither of whom have had the courtesy to research Writing. Judaism founded by Louis on the previous turn. Buddhism is out there but it must be one of the two unknown AIs.

2080 BC: Well, hello there! My prodigal warrior turns up on my SE border. Looking at the area he was last seen, I see that Louis built a city down there to capture the fur, pushing my warrior through 8 tiles of Hatty's land. Talk about the Orient Express! Time to kill the fatted calf, or at least fortify the warrior in Antium. I see lots of Arab soldiers milling about in the N. Hope those are intended for Louis or Alex, not me. Archers due in 2 turns.

1960 BC: Judaism spreads to Antium, furnishing me with some free culture. I don't convert, however, as Alex has adopted Buddhism and Salah is still Hindu. This is good news, of course, because it means they are likely to fight each other sooner rather than later.

1390 BC: Iron in the desert SE of Antium. The hair stands up on the back of my neck when I think how close I was to losing that to Alex! (Who already has 2 surplus copper.)

1210 BC: Bella appears in Alex's land. She founded Buddhism (of course) which means that the two psychos a) have open borders and b) are the same religion. This could be bad. Since I have judaism, I could try to send some missionaries to convert a couple of Alex's cities, but that is a long way off. First I need lots of praetorians, then I can worry about diplomatic dirty tricks.

France and Egypt decide to go to war, surprisingly because they are both Jewish. The next turn, Hatty demands that I close border with Louis, but he is closer to me and has a bigger power graph so nothing doing. I might decide to attack him later, and I hope she is still drawing his forces to the S when I do, but I can't afford to get invovled at this point.

970 BC: The iron mine is finally built and I switch all production to praetorians. The stupid desert tile that the iron is on took 11 turns to build the mine and another 5 for the road. I forgot to take that into account. I probably should have chopped another worker before starting on it, but too late now.

A Persian scout appears in Greece and, not surprisingly, Cyrus is also Buddhist. Meanwhile Judaism has spread to my capital. So that makes 3 strong civs in the Buddhist coalition and 3 mediocre ones in the Jewish coalition, which is at war with itself. There is something vaguely allegorical about all this, but, being a non-spiritual leader, I can't make out what it is.

625 BC: Hatty demands that I convert to Judaism. I have been expecting this, but I hoped it would be Louis that made the demand. Well I really can't afford it right now, but if I don't, Louis is likely to make the demand anyway and it will just waste the good will I could have had with Hatty. If I spend 5 turns as a Jew, then turn it off Louis will have to wait another 5 before he can demand a new conversion. The anger I provoke from the Buddhists will be temporary, and since I've built up some years-o'peace good will, it shouldn't cause any problems.

580 BC: Memphis falls to the French dropping Hatty's power rating. I am almost equal to her now. Salah was actually more upset with my conversion than the Buddhists (surprising because he is usually much cooler about such things than Bella, though she does cancel OB with me on the next turn). But I am still not anyone's worst enemy, so I should survive untill my planned recidivism in 2 turns.

530 BC: As if to prove my point, Saladin declares war ... on Egypt. Actually, looking at the power graph, I might want a piece of that action. Hatty built Heliopolis on her NE shore, which has been putting pressure on Antium's water tiles. Those tiles are not useful to me at the present, but that city is in a nice location and it would be a good addition to my shrunken empire. Unfortunately, since neither Hatty nor I have writing yet, I have no idea what her troop strength is. Might be worth looking into, though as soon as the opportunity presents itelf.

400 BC: I decide to risk it. Thebes has only 3 wounded defenders and I can get there next turn. Louis is besieging the city with 2 units, so he can't take it from me and Salah has a big stack on the way but I will get into attack range first. Heliopolis to the NE only has a couple of archers so I might be able to take that as well.

385 BC: Thebes is mine. Unfortunately, for a capital, it is not a very attractive city. There is rice and spice but not a lot of production or other food. Leaving my archer to defend I move my 2 wounded and 1 healthy praetorian to Heliopolis.

340 BC: Hatty stupidly sends a raiding party to try to take out my iron. I easily kill her archers (losing a warrior promoted to axe in the process, though) and her city is now down to 3 defenders. This will likely allow Salah to take the city with his horses before I get there. Louis demands that I convert to Judaism, so I do.

310 BC: Yep, Salah takes Heliopolis. I actually got a shot at it, since Louis decided to make peace at the last minute causing Salah to waste a couple of horse archers, but my wounded praetorian died against a wounded archer at 62% odds in my favor. So close. I had hoped that Saladin would raze the city, but it looks like he is going to keep it, making the utility of this whole exercise somewhat questionable. Still, I got my 3rd city out of the deal, so if I don't lose it to French and Arabic culture, I'm still ahead of the game at the cost of only 2 units.
End of session.

85 BC: Unfortunately the common military struggle with Salah and Louis did not last long enough to get any brownie points with them. Isabella has been surreptitiously been sending missionaries to my cities and Antium and Rome now have Buddhism. She comes with a demand, but it is not, as I suspect, to convert but for 60 gp tribute. I can afford that and she upgrades me to Pleased. I try to turn it around but she is not quite pleased enough to give me a free tech. That gives me an idea, however, and I ask Alex for Mysticism and he agrees, shockingly. I could probably get a freebie from Bella as well if I convert to Buddhism. I am rather inclined to join the Western Buddhist Coalition as it is pretty powerful, but the problem is that Salah and Louis are individually the most powerful civs and they are right on my doorstep. In fact, they are both taking territory from my cities. Hopefully Salah will go to war with Louis soon, or, failing that, Alex but he has been trading resources with both of them for many turns so that doesn't look likely. His worst enemies are Bella and Cyrus but they are probably too far away to pick on. Finally, I renegotiate a trade deal where I was giving Bella surplus gold for free, and get 4 more gp for it, which allows me to cut a turn of my Math research.

65 AD: For some strange reason Rome suddenly goes unhappy. I look at the reason and it is just because of overcrowding, but the city has been stagnant for several turns. This is puzzling until I realize that Alex's culture stole my surplus gold and I am trading the other one to Bella. Rats. I cancel the deal, but I really could have used the extra cash. But while I am investigating this unhappiness mystery, I notice that my remaining scientist is pulling down 4 GPP rather than the usual 3. Looking at the breakdown, I see that I am getting a 50% bonus from buildings but I only have a library, barracks and the palace there. Looking around, I discover that Thebes has the Parthenon, which I hadn't noticed. Also a free lighthouse, even though I am just now researching Sailing. Meditation comes in this turn and I immediately start building monasteries in all cities. My borders are being eaten away by foreign culture and I need to start pushing back. On the plus side I stole a farm from Louis that he built near Thebes for no aparent reason. He does not have a city that can work that tile.

260 AD: My first great scientist. Unfortunately, since I have iron working, he wants to bulb Compass so I make him build an academy in Rome instead. This will be a problem until I get to Philosophy.

290 AD: Cyrus circumnavigates. In the same turn Saladin demands that I stop trading with Cyrus. I have several troops in his territory, though so I pass. This hurts my relations with Salah temporarily, but the demerit goes away after a couple of turns which surprises me. Perhaps because, having mapped out his territory, I had stopped trading with Cyrus anyway?

485 AD: Calendar finally in. I decide to forgo Construction because it wouldn't do me much good anyway. Soon I will have to pay attention to victory conditions. Culture seems the only viable option at this point unless a war breaks out so I need to start assuring some friendly neighbors. The diplomatic situation has not changed in several years so I decide to start researching toward Monarchy and Theology to get some favorit civic points. Bella's favorite is Police State and Cyrus likes Representation neither of which will be happening for centuries, but Alex and Louis like HR and Salah likes Theocracy which are both doable. Conveniently those three are my only neighbors so they are the biggest threat anyway.

500 AD: Bella shocks me by offering free Construction without my asking! I am still totally amazed that Alex and Bella are my best friends in a Deity game. This is so not going the way I had expected. Looking at the map, I note something interesting. Cyrus is still Buddhist, but he has founded both Christianity and Islam. Islam is not spreading but all of Cyrus' cities have a cross as does Spain's Madrid. You know that couldn't happen spontaneously, so Cyrus must be actively spreading his religion, presumably because he has the shrine. Now there is no particular reason he should convert while only his own cities have Christianity, but if he is exporting it, there are some good tactical reasons he might want it as his state religion. No one has discovered Liberalism yet so there is a slight possibility that a religious war might break up the Buddhist coalition even as it did the Jewish one. Food for thought anyway.

 

[Skallagrim]

Hey all!

Its been a real long time since I have tried a GOTM now... but this month's deity challenge lured me to try it . I played this with my brother, justjohn.

I haven't taken notes, so I keep it short.

Spoiler :

Settled on plainhill 2xEast, grow size 2, then build workboat, worker, grow 3, then settler. Worker went straight for gold, then build road to next city. Tech goal: Alfabet (via Pottery).

The warrior first checked out second city possibilities, then tried to find all contacts. Witch he falled in I might add. He took the worst possible route, and when we researched alfabet, we were still lacking 2 civiliztions (Isabell and Cyrus). Normally the computer contect you very fast on deity, but we were squeezed in very fast by Saladin and Alex, so they couldnt reach us.

After alfabet, we tried to snatch Music, but failed, then went for Philosophy, but failed again. Tech route was now Civil Service -> Paper -> Education -> Liberalism. At 500AD we have about 14 turn to Liberalism, but Louis had Education 2 turns before us, and Saladin the turn after.

We built a total of 3 cities at 500AD, ALL in a distance of 3 from our capital (no room). The 2 first as fast as we could, Antrum first east, Cumae west.

Antrum has HUGE culture problem with both french (Paris with among others Great Library and Sistine Chapel + Orleans) and saladins (both his 2nd and 3rd city was straight north of us, Medina with Pyramids, Notre Dame, Chichen Itza, hindu holy city and its shrine). Unfortunately we realised way to late (350AD) we could even squeeze in a third city (S,S,SE) cuz of a culture bomb much earlier.

Our first GP was 50-50% scientist(hoped for)/artist(we used them cuz we had needed culture badly in Antrum) and became a artist. Culture bomb in Antrum! Didnt do much.

Capital actually built Colossus (sometime AD). We got 2 religion spreads (hindu + confu). Thats all I think.

Goal now is Diplomatic Victory (never tried that), 2 is friendly at the moment (Sala and Louis) at +11.

Btw. we have had a lot of problem with "We fear you are becoming too advanced!", esp. with Alex and Cyrus. First screenshot shows one occation with Louis.

 

[JerichoHill]

My first attempt ended in conquested failure. Yikes

I corrected my mistakes on my (unsubmittable) replay. Rather than DOW Alex, DOW Louis instead. I was able to stay in a near constant state of war with him, so that he didn't tech ahead. 10 Prats later and I owned all of France... turn 91, 1270BC

I suppose key in my game was that I settled my second city after I discovered Iron there. Beat Alex to that spot by 1 turn. Lucky!

Egypt's culture was killing New France, and I had about 12 Prats, so I consolidated and DOW'ed her. She was easy. Hatty, who did nothing in my game but found religions, died in 415bc (turn 139)

After that, I consolidated my forces in the North, and began building courthouses and finished cottage spamming. I had kept my tech rate up at 60% but at a bad burn rate of -20. I had to do something to get this up, so I held off attacking a bit. I have about 15 Prats, about 8 of which are Level 5 units.

That's where I am at zero AD. Sally and Alex are neutral to me.

 

[Bugg123]

Having run a few testgames, I realize I just don't have what it takes to get anywhere on normal deity playing romans (I'd get randomly DOW'ed and slaughtered way before I discovered anything as useful as fire), so after a bit of soulsearching:

First spoiler - Adventurer save - still alive at 500AD

With my adventurer bonus, I moved troops around a bit, also moved worker to PH 2E, saw pigs, and settled 2E on turn 2.
Built WB (3520BC) -> Settler(2980 BC) -> Library, and archer (2nd settlement)/chariots (when lib finished), researched AH(3490BC) -> Wri(3040BC) -> Wheel -> Alpha (1990 BC)

Founded Anthium between gold and Ivory (and as it turned out 1N of Iron). After that I ran out of room, and had to expand through other means

Traded my way to BW/IW, but the only AI with any tech progress beyond that was Louis (the 3 Gold + 3FP (+Bronze) site gave his research a "slight" boost)

Got first to Drama and Philo (and construction and a lot of other stuff too later), so by 500AD, I guess I'm still tech-lead and with Liberalism a few turns off I'm gonna get there first as well.

Exploring Saladin's land, I noticed he only had Iron, and for a long time he had no access to IW. After getting IW myself I started pumping Praets to go with a few chariots and figured I'd take som Arab cities first.

Ofcourse, I took too much time setting this up, so that by the time I got to his first city (North of my 2nd Settlement, by gems and rice) he had just gotten IW and was building troops. Some unfavourable RNG later my hopes of an early campaign into Arabia were severely set back.

And so the first military campaign ended with the capture of Damascus (Jewish Holy city) @ 625BC. I had hoped for a few more cities, but alas, that wasn't possible.

By this time I had researched Construction and started pumping out some cats and WE to go with my praets. The french land looked a lot more juicy than the arab lands to the north.

At 340BC I had a small, and a larger stack ready to take on france. The ministack took out a settlement NE of Rome (Rheims, basically just by the rice) while my main army moved towards 3G3FP+B site (also known as Orleans)
Rheims was razed by 280BC and my army joined forces at the Orleans Siege. Orleans fell a few turns later (205BC), and the army rolled on towards Paris. Paris fell in 85BC and peace followed soon after when Lyons (by banana and Bronze to the north) for some reason had the main forces of Louis garrisoned (more than enough LB's on a hill for me to take on). Thanks to Louis general "buildiness" I was now the proud owner of The Oracle, Stonehenge, Pyramids and GLib

At the same time Saladin had been at war with Hatty. He signed for peace at the same time I made peace with Louis.

At this point I still don't know what type of vistory condition I should (pretend to) go for. Diplomatically I'm not doing so well. Saladin is up to pleased with me after my initial war, Alex next door (who took out isabella) is more of a concern, but serves as a nice buffer to Cyrus (power leader). Cyrus + Alex are at war and I've declined to take part leading to negative diplo relations with both.
So I just don't know... given my tech lead, my good tech pace and fairly decent production I could go for space, but at the same time the same factors could get me a good enough army to take out the competition. Since I suck at both, I figure I'll just see what I can do.
I guess I sort of also have enough religions/production to go for culture, but it's getting a bit late for that at this point + I allways end up in that direction and feel like trying something else.

At 500AD I'm still not ready to get Louis kicked out of my territory (I'm going for chemistry for that, and hope to finish up the french while getting cannons built later). I'm probably going for some type of military victory, will probably end up having to race for space and will most likely get DOWed by someone with more of an army than I can handle (I'm currently at about half power to alex, cyrus and saladin), trailing in score by about 30-60%.

Fingers crossed

 

[Orry]

I was playing the Adventurer save, I settled in place, managed to find a nice spot for my next city next to those gems to the north, but was beaten to it by Saladin. I managed to pop out one more city to the west but that was it before 500AD. I was preparing for a strike against Saladin to take what I believed was rightfully mine, and hopefully get the holy city he had right next to my borders, however I took far too long preparing my praetorians and it never happened. A few turns before the cutoff for this thread I joined a war against Louis involving Saladin, Alexander and Hatshepsut, in the hope of stealing a few cities while the big guys aren't looking. As for a planned victory condition, I'll consider it a victory if I survive to the finish.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I quit in 1090bc with an empty capital and Hatty about to eat me up. This map layout was intriguing, but evil when you get right down to it. Alex in one armpit, Louis breathing up your other. Hatty and her war chariots crawling up your legs. Only Sal isn't a seroius threat, but he's got a ton of room. Furthermore, you have all these guys having commerce resources galore and metals too. Evil. I don't believe ainwood expects anyone to win. I think he was trying to teach me a lesson for wanting a standard Diety game. Perhaps what he missed from that thread was that I said a contender version that was without Adventurer-type bonuses, but still winnable. I doubt it's news to anyone here that there are plenty of out-of-the-box deity games that "no one" can win. EDIT: Okay, I see how placing that iron just south of the obvious settling location, so the iron would be in teh inner cross, makes this game winnable. Just have to really bee-line the settler. ainwood.

That said, I think it might be possible to win this game, on the first try, if you follow the strategy klarius is likely to follow. You might start like Munro said in the Pre-Game. Bee-line Htg>AH>...>Alpha>...>Construction, trade for IW asap. Meanwhile you build 2 settlers, one for the ivory and one settles the far north iron immediately. Then, if you're lucky enough to still be at peace, which usually means one of your neighbors DoWed someone else instead, the key is to foment world war, for example, DoW Izzy and then set Alex on her. That way you get Alex and Louis warring in the other direction. Then you decide whether to grab Alex's iron and take out Sal, who is still weak, or grab Louis' gold-rich lands.

If you weren't lucky enough to send your warrior west first and north around Sal to defog the iron, you'd have to send your first chariot out defogging.

I'm still trying to win it without 'cheating' by using map knowledge. I've tried about 7 times already. No go.

I corrected my mistakes on my (unsubmittable) replay. Rather than DOW Alex, DOW Louis instead. I was able to stay in a near constant state of war with him, so that he didn't tech ahead. 10 Prats later and I owned all of France... turn 91, 1270BC

I suppose key in my game was that I settled my second city after I discovered Iron there. Beat Alex to that spot by 1 turn. Lucky!

You see, to me this isn't really correcting mistakes. This is taking advantage of your pre-knowledge of the map.

I have tried re-playing a number of times, but fairly not giving myself the advantage of the near-by iron. (Interesting though, when I was first playing, I saw that desert tile and thought there might be iron there...). I have not won yet. One time I managed to conquer Louis by around 0 ad, but I others already has maces and lbms.

Imo, to fairly replay this game, you have to play it using your original strategy or at most, using a strategy that you would use, not knowing anything about the map. In my game, I bee-lined IW and had it on T62, but ALex had already settled the iron spot. So it goes. So the only honest option I have is to build a settler and grab the iron to the far north after getting OBs with Sal. Another option might be to try to get a city up next to Louis' copper, the way Skalligrim did it, and try to get something going with axes, thoug I won't try that, because I never would have thought of that in teh real game.

I wasn't going to go for any peaceful victory. I wanted to conquer or dominate. I'd like to know how anyone succeds with that without taking advantage of map knowledge.

 

[JerichoHill]

Imo, to fairly replay this game, you have to play it using your original strategy or at most, using a strategy that you would use, not knowing anything about the map. In my game, I bee-lined IW and had it on T62, but ALex had already settled the iron spot. So it goes. So the only honest option I have is to build a settler and grab the iron to the far north after getting OBs with Sal. Another option might be to try to get a city up next to Louis' copper, the way Skalligrim did it, and try to get something going with axes, thoug I won't try that, because I never would have thought of that in teh real game.

I wasn't going to go for any peaceful victory. I wanted to conquer or dominate. I'd like to know how anyone succeds with that without taking advantage of map knowledge.

In my first game I did settle with westward where there was Iron, beating Alex to that spot by 1 turn (His settler and escort were right there when I settled. I actually wasn't trying to settle FOR IRON, but just to get a usable second city (The banana, phant, and gold was what attracted me, and that there was no other place to settle). I was LUCKY there was Iron there. The only thing I changed from the initial setup was who I DOW'ed. For my first game, I thought long and hard and debated between Alex and Louis, but I chose Alex initially, which I believe to have been the wrong choice. Otherwise, everything stayed the same from the start to the turn I DOW'ed. For that reason, I think DOW'ing on the other proposed AI is a fair replaying of the game

 

[LowtherCastle]

I've replayed the game and win but this is another story.

How, please?

It's a very nice map and definitely possible to win

So how would you win, I'm curious?

I don't think the problem is random DoWs, btw. I think that's more controllable than people think. In the majority of my pre-tests and replays I don't get DoWed so early.

 

[LowtherCastle]

In my first game I did settle with westward where there was Iron, beating Alex to that spot by 1 turn (His settler and escort were right there when I settled. I actually wasn't trying to settle FOR IRON, but just to get a usable second city (The banana, phant, and gold was what attracted me. I was LUCKY there was Iron there. The only thing I changed from the initial setup was who I DOW'ed. For my first game, I thought long and hard and debated between Alex and Louis, but I chose Alex initially, which I believe to have been the wrong choice. Otherwise, everything stayed the same from the start to the turn I DOW'ed. For that reason, I think DOW'ing on the other proposed AI is a fair replaying of the game

Okay. Fair enough. I suppose that would make this map winnable. On what turn did you settle that city in your first game?

 

[JerichoHill]

Okay. Fair enough. I suppose that would make this map winnable. On what turn did you settle that city in your first game?

This is the order from the first game (my submitted loss). My restart began right around where I choose to DOW Alex.

Rome built a Workboat, Barracks, and then a Settler, which finished turn 39
I founded Antium (the second city which had gold, iron, banana, and elephants) on turn 43. That was the turn I started researching Iron Working.

I believing DOWing Louis before he founded a third city close to Saladin was key. I managed to snag a worker with a warrior and, at the same time, defeat a scout. (scout and worker were on the same plot). That gave me the victory over the AI I needed to get peace if I needed too. I used my first prats to raid other workers and gain XP fighting archers. Louis didn't get IW, and didn't improve his bronze, because I kept taking his workers. Once i had 10 Prats, I attacked Orleans and took it with 0 casulaties. Paris took 1 casualty. Rheims took 0. I had several level 4 Prats (C1, CR3) at this time.

It became clear that I had to dow someone, again, so rather than attack the hindi block to my north, I attacked Hatty, who was pleased with me. Her culture was encroaching on Orleans. Orleans I think was VERY KEY, because of its 3 gold mines and 3 floodplains. That definitely boosted my research.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Rome built a Workboat, Barracks, and then a Settler, which finished turn 39
I founded Antium (the second city which had gold, iron, banana, and elephants) on turn 43. That was the turn I started researching Iron Working.

I believing DOWing Louis before he founded a third city close to Saladin was key. I managed to snag a worker with a warrior and, at the same time, defeat a scout. (scout and worker were on the same plot). That gave me the victory over the AI I needed to get peace if I needed too.

I see. That explains my problem. I was wasn't getting my settler till T45, after building wkr>wb>settler. Every time Alex would settle on T46... Thanks.

 

[warning:crazy]

Conquered by Louis and Sal combo in 1142 AD. I was way happy with that, as i have never even won on warlord. Spain went down in the BCs before I even met them, and Egypt was eliminated right around 500 AD. My biggest problem was not having nearly enough military units. Once they decided to come after me I was toast.

 

[JackOfClubs]

I believing DOWing Louis before he founded a third city close to Saladin was key. I managed to snag a worker with a warrior and, at the same time, defeat a scout. (scout and worker were on the same plot). That gave me the victory over the AI I needed to get peace if I needed too. I used my first prats to raid other workers and gain XP fighting archers. Louis didn't get IW, and didn't improve his bronze, because I kept taking his workers. Once i had 10 Prats, I attacked Orleans and took it with 0 casulaties. Paris took 1 casualty. Rheims took 0. I had several level 4 Prats (C1, CR3) at this time.

Well played. In retrospect I wish I had done something similar. I don't know why, but I am always more timid at GOTM than in my private games. I have yet to master this technique of declaring war before I have a full army capable of taking out a city. It always works whenever I have the courage to try it, but I always neglect to try it in competition games for some reason.

 

[Erkon]

...So how would you win, I'm curious?

I don't think the problem is random DoWs, btw. I think that's more controllable than people think. In the majority of my pre-tests and replays I don't get DoWed so early.

In my first three tries, Alex DoW'ed me. Game over. Fourth time, I didn't search west with my warrior, and when Alex met me, I had the warrior in Rome. Don't know if that affects his DoW eagerness, but he attacked Isa instead of me. I have no idea how to prevent early DoW other than keeping the warrior at home, which is not really a game winning strategy, is it?

I am replaying the exact strategy: Worker, Workboat, Barracks, Library, Units.
Research: Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, Writing, Alpha, Drama, CoL
Settle 2E. No stinkeen settler! While you build one settler, the AI builds six! My strategy is to capture cities instead. Don't know if that will work, but I am now building chariots (traded me early techs + BW + IW from alpha) and math from Drama. I will DoW Saladin and see where that leads me. At least I'm in tech lead (see attached screenshot)

What I meant with possible to win is the high production and high research capital 2E of starting point.

 

[JerichoHill]

For my overarching strategy, I used Sulla's Guide to Diety Victory with the Romans (in the Strategy Articles section), changing it up a little bit since we had the fish.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

Well, you will all be disgusted to hear that I am one of the lucky ones this month.

I was lucky to settle in the right spot (eastern forested plains hill)
I was lucky that the nearby warmongers did not DoW me first.

I survived the early BC years since Alex declared on Izzy and Louis declared on Hatty. Neither did any real damamge except for pillage parties, but at least it meant that I had a chance to make this game work.

I was 100% sure that iron would be in the fat cross of the starting settler spot, so was wildy surprised and frustrated when the only nearby iron I could see after teching to Alphabet was the desert tile about to be engulfed by Egyptian and Greek culture and one tile out of reach of my second city's fat cross.

Lots of luck involved, but I got off to a good start. I'll post a pre 500AD spoiler once I've had a chance to look at the game log.