News: GOTM39 Pre-game Discussion

[jesusin]

GOTM 39: Germany

[img=right]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/gotm39civ.jpg[/img]

This month you will lead Germany to victory (hopefully). The map has been heavily edited so you'd better expect the unexpected...

It's a Noble game on a Mysterious, Unspecified, Freezing Cold map, at Epic speed.

Game settings:

Civilization: Germany (Leader: Frederick; Traits: Creative, Philosophical)
Rivals: 6 AIs
Difficulty: Noble
Map: Mystery!
Mapsize: Standard
Climate: Cold... very cold... freezing cold!
Sea Level: Medium
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Epic
Options: Standard
Victory Conditions: all enabled

Frederick:

Frederick is Creative and Philosophical ; starting with Hunting and Mining. As you are Creative, you get 2 free culture per turn and you also get double speed Theatre and Colosseum. As a philosophical leader you get +100% GPPpt and double speed University.

Unique unit: Panzer(replaces Tank)

It has the same stats, but it has +50% against armored units.

Starting screenshot

This is the start of the game (click for a bigger image):




Adventurer Class bonuses:

1. Cleared up: The jungle in the starting screenshot has been removed.
2. Warrior: You have a Warrior in the same tile as the Scout.

Challenger Class Equalisers:

1. Scout? No!: Your Scout has disappeared.
2. Hunt? No!: You start without the knowledge of Hunting.

To Enter the Competition:

This competition will open on 1 February 2009. From that date, you'll be able to get your chosen starting save here.
Submit the save after your victory (or defeat) here, by 1 March 2009.

Software Versions

Windows: This game MUST be played in Civilization 4 (NOT Warlords or BTS), patched to version 1.74, and with the HOF mod version 1.74.003 installed. You can download the HOF mod here. Players using Windows Vista are encouraged to read the notes on Vista fixes here.

Macintosh: This game MUST be played in Civilization 4 (NOT Warlords), patched to version 1.74, and with the Mac HOF mod version 1.74.002 installed. You can download the HOF mod here.

While playing...

Remember - for your entry to be accepted, it MUST be your first attempt to play this game, and you MUST NOT replay any turns. If you make a mistake while playing, you have to live with it, learn from it, and carry on the game without replaying.

We will open 'spoiler' threads during the month for players to discuss what happens in their games. Do not discuss any details of the game outside those threads while it is in progress. Please use the Saves Available thread or Private Messages for any technical queries, eg. if you have trouble opening the game. Do NOT post in the Pre-game Discussion thread or in the Saves Available thread once you have successfully opened the starting save.

 

[Conquistador 63]

This game looks awesome, can't wait for it to be available! Maybe it is a (modified) Fantasy Realm mapscript? I don't know if I am spoiling part of the fun (or just being deluded), but is that a barb city border east of the mountain range? Good thing there is ice to the NE, making E impassable.

Anyways, this time I'll try to achieve a fast Domination game - even if I am lousy at it. Scout moves 1W just in case, but I bet I'll settle in place, worker 1st, tech BW/AH/IW. But if there is indeed a barb city (3SE?), settling 1S would allow culture-flipping it on the 3rd border expansion...Would it compensate for losing the hill pigs?

 

[Markus5]

Indeed, this does look fun. I've never seen a barb city flip. Does it happen?
I will probably follow C_63's initial strategy. But, I'm a sucker for space race games.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Hmmm, intriguing. I like mystery maps . I wonder what 'very cold' is going to mean in practice. Ice and tundra scattered around randomly everywhere, making good city sites impossible to find? Or merely much bigger polar regions than normal? The proximity of the ice to the jungle suggests the former to me.

At any rate I'm going exploring. I see no reason to change my usual habit of going for space, so with that gameplan I really don't fancy a capital with 4 mountains and two glaciers in the fat cross. And gems that you can't use until iron working don't really tempt me either - those may as well get earmarked for a 2nd or 3rd city.

But which way...? Scout W or SW perhaps. Followed by settler N-NW, would seem to expose maximum tiles. But those hills to the west are going to restrict visibility almost whatever I do on the 1st turn.

 

[bestje]

Indeed, this does look fun. I've never seen a barb city flip. Does it happen?
I will probably follow C_63's initial strategy. But, I'm a sucker for space race games.

i'd imagine a barb city will flip fairly easily, they never seem to expand their cultural borders.

thats a very interesting looking start. i've never seen ice and jungle that close together before.

 

[haphazard1]

This looks interesting -- mystery map time!

We will have to discover just what "cold...very cold" means. DynamicSpirit is right that having that ice so close to jungle is rather unusual, although given the adventurer bonus I am not sure that jungle is natural and not just a created impediment to our progress.

Seeing what appears to be pack ice along that coast makes me wonder -- could "very cold" mean a continents/hemispheres set up, with the oceans frozen over except for narrow (even single-tile width) passages? Could make for some interesting naval play, and a need to settle cities at certain sites to get the only "open" coastal passages.

The other two obvious factors are the poor (relative to a non-mystery map, anyway!) starting location, and the apparent barb city. This is noble difficulty, so taking a couple turns to explore and wander before founding should not be a significant problem. We do not have Mysticism, so even at noble going for an early religion would not seem likely to pay off. So why not take a turn or three and see if there is better land?

And as for the barbs...meh. It is noble, so they should not be too threatening. It may be a while before they can be eliminated, especially if there are no horses or copper available early. (Or more likely, available at the barb city!) We do start with Hunting, so grabbing Archery early and swarming the barb city with archers vs. warriors should be possible.

Conquistador 63 mentioned culture flipping the barbs -- an interesting idea. But likely to be quite slow, unless you can found a religion to speed border expansion. And I assume that barbs get the usual "garrison units reduce flip chances" effect, so it seems likely that a flip would be a long time coming.

Looking forward to this one.

 

[KingMorgan]

Interesting, roll on Febuary!

 

[Adama]

Who knows? Our starting location might be the only "green" on the entire planet... sort of a lost world in the artic setting...

Looks like a lot of fun... best of all for us newbs, (Qunitessential Noob here), it's Noble. I think I can, I think I can, I think I can ...

By the way, if that IS a Barb city, if I just wander my Settler over there and surrender, do I automatically get on the winners' medal board with the ambulance? I'm just saying... Ha!

Good luck everyone!
Adama

 

[Htadus]

Mystary map.....hummmmm

I guess I can play a mystary winning condition game and won't tell me or myself how I intend to win this game. Very cool. Definately won't settle on the spot and will run a away.

 

[Markus5]

Who knows? Our starting location might be the only "green" on the entire planet... sort of a lost world in the artic setting...

Every civ's starting location has its patch of green. The game carves that out when it creates the map and places the initial units. But, beyond the patch of green we (and the other civs) are sitting on, it might be your arctic lost world. A nice challenge, perhaps. Or, we're in the ice and all the other civs are in their lush Edens.

 

[kcd_swede]

It looks like impassable tiles are all over the place. That makes me wary of choosing a VC before I have explored some. Which means that I won't be settling on the first turn.

Ideally, I'd like to go for a culture victory since I haven't tried that in a while and we have a Phi leader. I think I should be able to best my personal record with this being Noble level. Requiring IW to get the gems kind of sets that back a little, but not insurmountable.

I figure turn 1 I will move scout SW (or 1N-1SW?) and Settler will go 1N and re-evaluate where second move should go. Right now looks like W or SW, since that half-fogged river PH looks interesting (I think its a hill), even though it requires giving up the pigs. If there is something else to compensate that's the spot I'd like. If not, maybe I end up 1NW of start position to get 1gem and pigs, and lose some of the volcanos and ice pack. OTOH, my guess is that the best land is probably to the south, based on river and forests visible.

Right now I see no way for barbs to get to us (or vice versa), though there probably is some distant access if there is an end to the mountain range in the south. I think its probably safe to go for AH>BW and hope for something better than archers. If no horses or copper, then must choose archery or take chance on IW (which needs to be early anyhow for gems).

Lots of decisions to make based on what the map reveals. That is what is cool about a mystery map. Ice-locked continents are not cool, though. That would be coooold.

 

[azzaman333]

Mere speculation, but I think flipping the barb city will be very important.

 

[toller pretzl]

Has anyone ever, positively, flipped a barb city ?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I'm pretty sure I recall flipping them once or twice.

It'd be rather rare since it's unusual for me to settle very close to a barb city, yet not have enough troops to deal with the city the conventional way

 

[Adama]

Mere speculation, but I think flipping the barb city will be very important.

Hmmm.... Interesting thought crossed my mind ... not that it fits at all into a normal Noble level game... {more of a 'what if' scenario} but what if we were ice/mountain locked onto a reasonably small land mass, and the only way to expand is to flip the barb city and start developing there ... no other access to the real world? Sort of a parallax or a 'door' into another world?

Ah, but I'm doing a great bit of speculating on the premise of a Barb city that probably doesn't even exist. Too many Sci Fi 'parallel universe' motiffs, perhaps, or maybe just thinking outside the beauxx.... bocks... Bachs... er, um, that's 'box' in our regular universe.

Yeah, I know that's not very helpful to the pregame discussion, but hey, it's more helpful than what I am usually able to post...

Qunitessential Noob
Adama

 

[kcd_swede]

Mere speculation, but I think flipping the barb city will be very important.

Do you really think the map-maker wants to FORCE us to pursue a strategy of maxing culture? I'm sure he could figure out how to ensure that would be the ONLY viable means to break out of a goegraphy-induced isolation, if he wanted.

However, I doubt he would. While it would be an appropriate challenge for the high level players here, it would probably frustrate many more who thought Noble was a managable level. (Unless they read this thread and are on the look-out for this trap).

One thing I've felt in other games is that culture does not expand over mountains as easily as over normal terrain when there is another civ's culture on the other side. Not sure about that but had a few examples where it sure seemed that way. So I doubt being 1 space closer speeds up a culture flip of the barb city by much, is what I'm saying.

As for flipping a barb city, I think I have a vague memory of having done it before. Pretty sure, but not 100%. It's been a while and it wasn't that significant of an event. Maybe I just dreamed it.

 

[azzaman333]

It is a heavily edited map, which could mean anything. Now, I doubt it'll be anywhere near as bad as this game from back in the days where I was playing Civ3 xOTMs, but just because it says Noble or Warlord, doesn't mean it's going to be nice to the player. It might just mean that the low difficult is needed to keep people with a chance of winning.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Hmmm.... Interesting thought crossed my mind ... not that it fits at all into a normal Noble level game... {more of a 'what if' scenario} but what if we were ice/mountain locked onto a reasonably small land mass, and the only way to expand is to flip the barb city and start developing there ... no other access to the real world? Sort of a parallax or a 'door' into another world?

I would find it highly implausible that jesusin would give us a map that gives us no choice of early-game strategy - especially if the required strategy is dependent on the vaguaries of the RNG (as culture flipping to some extent is).

 

[Conquistador 63]

While I agree on the first part of DS's last statement, I disagree on the last part. According to a very detailed article on the Strategy forums (and IIRC, to my own game experience), barb cities will always immediately revolt/flip under cultural pressure - there shouldn't be any RNG uncertainty involved with it.

That said, I almost feel guilty to have raised the barb borders issue into the pre-game discussion, maybe I am spoiling part of jesusin's surprises. But since this is just a friendly competition, why not share what I think could be useful to the rest of the community?

 

[bestje]

the borders are fairly clear in the screenshot, I don't think you have spoiled a surprise!