News: TSG138 Announcement!

[Hammer Rabbi]

Civilization 5 - Game of the Month Training Series Game 138
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Welcome to the 138th game in the GOTM V Training Series! This Series will allow new and old GOTM fans to try out these features from Civ5's expansions and DLCs in a friendly environment. Participants are encouraged to post questions, stories, advice, tricks and failures in the dedicated game threads (described below). Each game will specify the Civ you will play and the Victory Condition to strive for. You can read more about the GOTM and Training Series concept in this thread.

Must Read!

We would like to ask you to abide by our most sacred rule: Don’t replay any turns! If you make a mistake, accept it and try to recover. To ensure fair play and prevent results exclusions, please set your Autosaves to 1 turn. In the event of a computer crash while playing, just reload to the previous save and play it as closely to how you played it the first time. Please let Leif, Knowtalent or me know (either in the forums or through Private Message) if you experienced a crash and how many turns you replayed.

Civ V BNW - TSG138 Details:

Player (You): - Darius I - Persia
Victory Condition: Domination/Science but all other VCs are enabled.
Difficulty: Deity
Civs/City-States (including player): 8/16
Map Type/Size: Pangea
Game pace: Standard

Game options:
Start - Renaissance Era
Enabled - Max Turns: 200, Promotion Saving, Quick Combat, Quick Movement
(Regardless of starting options, you may turn on/off Quick Combat/Quick Movement using the game options menu at any time during gameplay.)
Game Version: This game was created in Civ5 Brave New World version 1.0.3.279.
Game Requirements: Wonders of the Ancient World DLC, Gods and Kings expansion, Brave New World Expansion.

Persian Unique Attributes:

Spoiler :

UA: Achaemenid Legacy - Golden Ages last 50% longer. During a Golden Age, units receive +1 Movement and a +10% Combat Strength bonus.

UB: Satrap's Court - City must have a Market. Trade routes other players make to a city with a Satraps Court will generate an extra 1 Gold for the city owner and the trade route owner gains an additional 1 Gold for the trade route.

UU: Immortal - Ancient Era Unit which specializes in defeating Mounted Units. This Unit has a higher Combat Strength and heals more quickly than the Spearman, which it replaces.

This is where you will start:

Information about threads associated with each individual TSG -- Must Read if you are new to our Game of the Month!

Spoiler :

Please note: If you wish to make a video of your game, please do not post any links to it until after the game submission date has passed. This is because of the potential spoilers that are created by posting before the end date. Thank you for your cooperation.

TSG Announcement thread (this one): This thread is used to announce the game and clarify the settings and rules (don’t be afraid to ask questions). It’s also used to discuss the game before you start, and post problems with opening the save. Please don’t post any game-related info once you open and play the save. Instead use the next thread.

Opening Actions thread: This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. We encourage players to use the spoiler tags for screenshot. During the time the game is active, please do not post any information concerning the game outside of the spoiler threads including screen shots, videos, or recorded/live-cast Let's Plays on other websites.

After Actions thread: In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game. Some players like to replay the game, and although we will not record the results from a replay, you can still post your new experiences. The game will not be closed as such, but after one month, the results will be compiled, and will not necessarily be updated with reports coming in after the finish date.

Results and Congratulations thread: We will create a separate thread with the results at the end of the one month submission period (sorted by date and score). We will issue medals to the top 3 winners (based on earliest date finished). There are no long-term records kept for these results, they are just given out to top finishers to reward their efforts.

File Upload System
We have a game file upload system you can find here. Please use it to upload your completed first attempt by saving the game on the turn after your victory or defeat. (by using the "lemme play one more turn" feature) Please note: you must submit your game on the turn following Victory. If you continue to play, the game overwrites the data and your submission could be rejected by the submission system.

This game runs for a month and ends August 1st, 2016.

The save will be available for download on July 1st, 2016, midnight Central Standard time (UTC -6:00) in the US.

The Save can be found here.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Hey all, just a quick note. This one has a few strange settings I wanted to highlight for those who may just jump into this. For one, this is Deity with a Max Turns setting. There are two VCs, Domination and Science. But Max Turns of 200 means you must win before 200 turns are over or be ranked by Score. Losses will still be ranked for score so if you lose you can still submit without worrying over the embarrassment of loss.

For perks, you start in the Renaissance Era with a few more units like the pic shows. You also get Promotion Saving as a setting. There aren't any ruins this late in the game either (game time is considered t185, you have until t385) but you will start with the ability to choose 4 Social Policies.

I encourage players to do some practice games with these settings. They are strange and could use some experience to help strategize.

Thanks and I hope this isn't too weird,
HR

edit: Results will be ranked by Domination, Science, and Score.

 

[Zeppa]

I like the creative settings you created for TSG 138. Also thank you for posting this a few days earlier than normal so we can play test games. Looks to be much fun!

 

[MPoxon]

I thought you might give us a nice easy one after the Russian TSG136 with all the warmongering civs

Diety, late start and a turn limit! Just the late start screwed me a several others over a few months back, this looks hardcore!

Challenge accepted though Rabbi lets see what can be done.

 

[zxcvbob]

Hey, no immortals!

 

[KingDante]

Sad no Petra capital

 

[x2Madda]

Sad no Petra capital

Pretty sure you still can.

 

[Sclb]

You can only build Medieval era wonders or later for a Renaissance start, so no Petra.

 

[vadalaz]

Going to try to get a high score game here.

 

[beetle]

Thanks for eating up a 3 day holiday week ended!

 

[zxcvbob]

Thanks for eating up a 3 day holiday week ended!

It won't take that long. I rage-quit my practice game after 18 turns; it was impossible. *Gandhi* forward settled me and was massing an huge army on my borders. Not even gonna try this one.

See y'all in a couple of weeks!

 

[beetle]

I will hold out for a coastal cap. Can’t really guess from the OP where I put the expo.

My test games went fast, lost by SV with both of them. Tried Rationalism first, then Commerce, skipping tradition. That went poorly. So SPs as usual. The other thing I learned is that religious buildings are hard to make work. They start at 300 faith and quickly go to 400 faith. If I found, I will be skipping them.

 

[fishbackpack]

Played a few practice starts, and these settings are really fun and they switch things up a *ton* from a normal science game.

Special Considerations I've found in this Renn. Era start:
* No idea what policy tree to bark up. Of course Rationalism is vital, but happiness is a huge uphill battle when you need to expand so quickly. I feel compelled to pop Rationalism + grab Secularism (+2 beakers/specialist), then climb up tradition for Monarchy. At the same time, as an Order player, I could just push hard to Electricity with Oxford and capping off Rationalism (if needed) and take Socialist Realism for a nice chunk of happiness that doesn't come at the price of beakers.

(Another good reason for pushing straight to Order would be grabbing Resettlement before establishing the bulk of your cities. Cities would start with 5 :c5pop:, taking the edge off of the penalty you take for grabbing the necessary NW's before going big for those late game beakers and hammers.)

* Coastal cities with fish resources are WONDERFUL when you have a free lighthouse. Exploration and Maritime Infrastructure could also be really neat boons, as your civ might not even need roads?? Dariush is a pretty dope $$ civ because of the +2 on banks, and having insane coastal routes could bring that to another level.

* Fighting Deity computers in Ideology has always been painful, and I haven't played my practices long enough to know if this is exacerbated or alleviated by a late start. They whomp me on wonders, but they don't get to whomp me for quite as long on the early-game wonders, nor do they get quite as many turns for getting great works. Wondering if there might be a strat to rush UN to declare a World Ideology before everyone makes their choice and hates it?

* I've touched on this in the others, but settlers are a pain. They take double time to build and cost 750 ! And your enemies are expanding quickly, so if you don't take the initiative, you're just gonna get space'd out. Settling on luxes is vital, as always, but the pace of expansion is so fast that it's easy to goof up and end up with negative .

* Similar to settlers, starting with basically zero science makes the whole thing one more complicated. It's a terrible triangle of beakers vs cities vs population. Building settlers kills growth and happiness, forcing you to give up even more beakers that are needed for science to build happiness buildings. Focusing on population lets your curve pick up later, but you miss out on getting to ideology quickly. Focusing on beakers is important, but those specialists from the university eat up population that is necessary for building settlers Of course this is all true in an Ancient Era game, but who gets to Renn Era with 2 population in their cities??? lmao.

Anyway, looking forward to testing these things a few more times and then opening the game >

 

[beetle]

Played a few practice starts, and these settings are really fun and they switch things up a *ton* from a normal science game.

I agree the settings are a fun change of pace. My practice games made think I should play the science game exactly as normal though! Running Rationalism early didn’t pay off at all, it might have been the happiness problem you note, but also my science did not seem very good all either. Maybe because the early cities are small as compared to be where you would be with a normal game at Renaissance?

...then climb up tradition for Monarchy.

I am pretty sure that if you want to bother with Tradition then you really want to open and run it straight through. The opportunity cost of delaying the Aqueducts is even more harsh than it is with a normal game.

Another good reason for pushing straight to Order would be grabbing Resettlement before establishing the bulk of your cities. Cities would start with 5 :c5pop:, taking the edge off of the penalty you take for grabbing the necessary NW's before going big for those late game beakers and hammers.

That is very creative! Maybe this would work with Polynesia on a Terra map? I am skeptical, that is long time to wait before setting up! Game is promotion saving, not policy saving. How many turns before you might have Resettlement?

Coastal cities with fish resources are WONDERFUL when you have a free lighthouse. Exploration and Maritime Infrastructure could also be really neat boons, as your civ might not even need roads?

Okay, now I want to play these settings on a small continents with Dido!

I've touched on this in the others, but settlers are a pain. They take double time to build and cost 750 !

I did not notice that! Everything else builds faster, but settlers are slower? In my test games, I did workshop then setter with the two starting cities. So that was four cities, enough to max out the buff from Tradition, and reasonably fast. I did not even bother with the food caravans.

 

[fishbackpack]

Hey Beetle, thanks for chatting about this

Interesting to start workshop. I had very good success this last practice with this build:

policy trees: exploration x2 to maritime infrastructure (which is amazingly helpful to push the pace of building cargo ships right off the bat), rationalism x2 to +2 /specialist. I got the right hand of rationalism until I opened Order, and then I poured my policies into that to stave off the happiness penalty of having low tourism :'(

build targets, broadly speaking: scouts+trieme to chair first diplomacy session while waiting for a few pop growth, cargo ships for food, coliseum + circus maximus, settler and 3-city NC. I grabbed a few guilds once my populations were high enough, and then I pushed hard for science in my science city (whichever could find a mountain; nothing to worry about in the setup we were given here!) while I got a fourth city set up with library&university to build Oxford to rush Radio. Ideally, this could time correctly for Order as World Ideology, but I haven't landed that quiiite yet, nor am I sure that I could even get that passed...

With all of that, I outpaced AI population (thanks ships!), but I ended up taking Revolutionary Wave penalties on happiness for low tourism. I will try one more time to see if I can't time the World Ideology, because I definitely remember hitting it right on time, but maybe I blacked out and forgot to propose it?? It's also pretty tough to hoard enough CS for it to pass, what with Deity AI getting 200+ gpt. Still, happiness was not a huge problem when I got Circus Maximus right out of the gate; I was successful in trading for luxes to keep above the water with populations of 20, 18, 12, and 10. Thank you Satrap's Court

I'd like to try getting that ironworks earlier, like I assume you're suggesting vis a vis the workshops. That could be a huge boon to the science hub for building science National Wonders, settlers, and all that fun stuff that gets relegated to the busiest city.

One more practice and I think I'm gonna have a pretty good run on the real one!

 

[beetle]

policy trees: exploration x2 to maritime infrastructure (which is amazingly helpful to push the pace of building cargo ships right off the bat), rationalism x2 to +2 /specialist. I got the right hand of rationalism until I opened Order, and then I poured my policies into that to stave off the happiness penalty of having low tourism

That sounds very reasonable to me.

One more practice and I think I'm gonna have a pretty good run on the real one!

Please try a four-city game running through Tradition ASAP, see if seems as strong as your Exploration+Rationalism play, and report back here!

That is four free amphitheaters and quick-enough aqueducts. You will still have time enough for a couple Rationalism policies before Ideology. Less fun, but I think it might be about optimal.

 

[Knowtalent]

Once you open the save you should not be posting in the announcement thread, please carry the conversation in the opening actions thread.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[fishbackpack]

Please try a four-city game running through Tradition ASAP, see if seems as strong as your Exploration+Rationalism play, and report back here!

I have trouble thinking it could be! Rationalism with +2 and +10% probably doubles my beakers by the end. The late-era start means that I peaked at about 600/turn, which was all I needed for a smooth and comfortable win at roughly the same time as other civs were making their first spaceship parts. I went wild on specialists, too, so I might expect half the policies without that.

This last game, I also started with food-heavy cities, and I used the cargo ships for hammers, and the +3 hammers from coastal were massive. If I had been stuck in tradition, I would have been completely sunk on hammers.

I had also never really used exploration, but I am a huge fan now. +1 mov and +1 vision makes a huge difference in exploration and protection, and +3 hammers are brilliant for new cities I build up the aqueducts that I miss from Tradition quickly enough.

I was only able to get 6 policies pre-ideology on the late start Amphitheaters on the tradition tree could help, but it might be tough to get enough to get the rationalism choices.


All in all, I might try to run the GOTM again with tradition after I try it with the exploration/rationalism, just to see that I wasn't nutty!

 

[fishbackpack]

Once you open the save you should not be posting in the announcement thread, please carry the conversation in the opening actions thread.

I appreciate the concern, but we're both discussing practice games with the late-era settings.

 

[leif erikson]

Sent a Private Message to explain. In future, please send a private message to staff to question a post by staff. We do not wish to turn the thread into anything other than a discussion of the game at hand. Thanks.