WOTM 22 Final Spoiler
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News: WOTM 22 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted or Abandoned
- Thread starter leif erikson
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Monnet
Chieftain
I don't usually post in spoiler threads as I'm only a mid-level player and very rarely have any useful insights, but I finished WOTM22 last night (quite late 
) and I feel I need to make an entry because
1. it was quite an exhilarating experience, specially towards the end
2. this was a very clever map, with all sorts of twists and turns, and
3. I snatched a victory from the jaws of defeat and not the other way around, which is usually the case.
I went for a spaceship victory, probably the most obvious choice with this map, but I loved the way in which the semi-isolated start gave a chance to get going before aggresive neighbours could spoil the fun, and how the tension increased as time went by, resulting in a frantic last hundred turns trying to build the blasted spaceship while all hell broke loose around me. In the end, I launched just a couple of turns before Brennus had finished his, and a couple of turns after Montezuma (top civ) and his vassals Ramesses and Elisabeth declared all-out war on me. I was doomed (as so often), but there was a way out for me this time: up to the stars.
Notes (mostly to myself):
- If you plan to conquer a juicy barbarian city two islands away, make sure that you put a city on the (sheep) island in between. Otherwise some (japanese) people will settle there an cut off your shipping line until Astronomy or an unnecessary war.
- Don't be so mean diplomatically and gift things from time to time, otherwise everybody hates you in the end.
- Don't assume that, just because you cover a fair amont of land, there will be aluminium / uranium / oil somewhere. Was I glad I got that barbarian city when the 'modern' resources showed up? Not having oil meant no upgrades for my frigates or my cavalry. Tokugawa plundered all my sea resources and all my big coastal cities went down 8-10 in population. It was heartbreaking, even though I was winning the war on land, and made my research and GP production plummet, hence the tense finale.
Before this game, I was seriously considering giving xOTM a rest, after some very frustrating experiences and the impression that I was not really improving, just hitting my head against the wall. I also find the whole thing a bit 'procedural', a bit like 'winning by numbers', especially when looking at the top players and their performances. This is not meant as criticism, just an observation from a time-poor mid-level player who just wants a bit of epicness in his games. It seemed like it was no fun anymore for me. This game, however, WAS a lot of fun, so many thanks to Leif. I look forward to more challenges from him.
) and I feel I need to make an entry because1. it was quite an exhilarating experience, specially towards the end
2. this was a very clever map, with all sorts of twists and turns, and
3. I snatched a victory from the jaws of defeat and not the other way around, which is usually the case.
I went for a spaceship victory, probably the most obvious choice with this map, but I loved the way in which the semi-isolated start gave a chance to get going before aggresive neighbours could spoil the fun, and how the tension increased as time went by, resulting in a frantic last hundred turns trying to build the blasted spaceship while all hell broke loose around me. In the end, I launched just a couple of turns before Brennus had finished his, and a couple of turns after Montezuma (top civ) and his vassals Ramesses and Elisabeth declared all-out war on me. I was doomed (as so often), but there was a way out for me this time: up to the stars.
Notes (mostly to myself):
- If you plan to conquer a juicy barbarian city two islands away, make sure that you put a city on the (sheep) island in between. Otherwise some (japanese) people will settle there an cut off your shipping line until Astronomy or an unnecessary war.
- Don't be so mean diplomatically and gift things from time to time, otherwise everybody hates you in the end.
- Don't assume that, just because you cover a fair amont of land, there will be aluminium / uranium / oil somewhere. Was I glad I got that barbarian city when the 'modern' resources showed up? Not having oil meant no upgrades for my frigates or my cavalry. Tokugawa plundered all my sea resources and all my big coastal cities went down 8-10 in population. It was heartbreaking, even though I was winning the war on land, and made my research and GP production plummet, hence the tense finale.
Before this game, I was seriously considering giving xOTM a rest, after some very frustrating experiences and the impression that I was not really improving, just hitting my head against the wall. I also find the whole thing a bit 'procedural', a bit like 'winning by numbers', especially when looking at the top players and their performances. This is not meant as criticism, just an observation from a time-poor mid-level player who just wants a bit of epicness in his games. It seemed like it was no fun anymore for me. This game, however, WAS a lot of fun, so many thanks to Leif. I look forward to more challenges from him.
Adama
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2007
- Messages
- 137
As a mid-level wannabe myself
, I appreciate the posts from civ'ers closer to my level since sometimes those contain the clues to improvement at my level. 
While I enjoy greatly the strategies of the top players (perhaps the best reason to play xOTM's and read the spoilers), lame write-ups like mine
hopefully encourage new players and beginners to take part. [After reading my write-ups, they are thinking to themselves, "HeQ, I'm a lot better than that yo-yo. 
I should have played this xOTM."]Like some other endeavors (take the game of serious Chess for example), unfortunately some parts of the game can be 'procedural' {i.e., like some opening theory or endgame theory in chess}. However, it is the exciting combinations that occur throughout an xOTM, the unforseen interchanges, the multitude of decisions and ability to manage top-down or at a micro level, that offers something for everyone.
For those who love the micro, the numbers and want to improve at the procedural nuances, as well as overall strategy, what better way to learn than hearing how the experienced players did it? (reading the S-GOTM games are the best of the x-OTM series for that education). But, for the rest of us, just getting a general comparison of how we did vis-a-vis others nearer our individual level is FUN.
SO, thanks to all of those who put even a 'blurb' in the write-ups- there's probably someone out there who benefits ! [i.e., usually it's at least me.
]Adama
Monnet, Thanks for the write up and congratulations on your victory! 
Your write up is very important because it shows that victory can be snatched from the jaws of defeat if you keep at it.
What I have learned, since joining the staff, is that there are a lot of us around, mid-level players trying to find the time to improve. I have not participated in spoiler threads because, like you, I did not think I had much to offer since my games were seldom stellar. I am learning that participation in spoilers are an opportunity to present your game and invite others to discuss what you have done and ways you could improve. It is really the purpose of these threads, to learn. One of our goals is to encourage more participation in these threads and we are discussing ways to do that now.
I like your list of things that you learned.
And thank you for the feedback on the map layout. I am learning and my goal is to provide games that challenge and teach something to our community. My continuing challenge will be to top whatever I have done before.
btw, the sign up thread for Succession Game of the Month 9 is in progress in the Succession Game of the Month sub-forum. Just click here. I have learned a great deal about this game from participating there.
EDIT:
Your write up is very important because it shows that victory can be snatched from the jaws of defeat if you keep at it.
What I have learned, since joining the staff, is that there are a lot of us around, mid-level players trying to find the time to improve. I have not participated in spoiler threads because, like you, I did not think I had much to offer since my games were seldom stellar. I am learning that participation in spoilers are an opportunity to present your game and invite others to discuss what you have done and ways you could improve. It is really the purpose of these threads, to learn. One of our goals is to encourage more participation in these threads and we are discussing ways to do that now.
I like your list of things that you learned.
And thank you for the feedback on the map layout. I am learning and my goal is to provide games that challenge and teach something to our community. My continuing challenge will be to top whatever I have done before.
btw, the sign up thread for Succession Game of the Month 9 is in progress in the Succession Game of the Month sub-forum. Just click here. I have learned a great deal about this game from participating there.
EDIT:
Somehow, I think you said it better than I could have.As a mid-level wannabe myself
SO, thanks to all of those who put even a 'blurb' in the write-ups- there's probably someone out there who benefits ! [i.e., usually it's least me.
Adama
Adama
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2007
- Messages
- 137
After a slow start, I still hoped I could win this game. Monarch is a level I aspire to get more comfortable with, so any win would be nice. 
On the way to war with Tofu I discovered a couple of Barb cities, so I just warred with the Barb State for experience. I finally got to Tofu and vassalized the Japanese Empire in 1616 AD. Monty came straight for my capital, but I held my ground and destroyed his attacking forces.
I had decided that I wasnt up to an intercontinental war and an amphibious landing domination/conquest. SO, I solidified and headed to space. Brennus had the Cuban island south of me, and he DOWd me once or twice, so I had my own version of the Cuban missile crisis (only without missiles though ). Monty DOWd a couple more times. Used the upgraded amphib Beserkers (couldve used Marines I guess) to take a couple of the cities on the close islands. Finally, went to space in 1995 AD. I certainly wasnt a threat to the leaders award board, but I was happy to chalk up a Monarch victory.
Lessons:
1. I need to study isolated starts (or semi-isolated) and determine a better strategy. I got off to a very slow start.
2. Intercontinental war using transports is still over-whelming to me (on levels above Nobel or Prince- where I don't have a strong military tech advantage). I think this mainly has to do with the number of enemy units I expect to encounter on the other side.
3. Finally, I need to work on my opening--as one example, I lost a ton of worker turns in the early going due mainly to my own mismanagement.
Thanks to Leif (and all the staff) for a great game, map, and learning experience.
Happy & Fun Civving to all,
Adama
On the way to war with Tofu I discovered a couple of Barb cities, so I just warred with the Barb State for experience. I finally got to Tofu and vassalized the Japanese Empire in 1616 AD. Monty came straight for my capital, but I held my ground and destroyed his attacking forces.
I had decided that I wasnt up to an intercontinental war and an amphibious landing domination/conquest. SO, I solidified and headed to space. Brennus had the Cuban island south of me, and he DOWd me once or twice, so I had my own version of the Cuban missile crisis (only without missiles though ). Monty DOWd a couple more times. Used the upgraded amphib Beserkers (couldve used Marines I guess) to take a couple of the cities on the close islands. Finally, went to space in 1995 AD. I certainly wasnt a threat to the leaders award board, but I was happy to chalk up a Monarch victory.
Lessons:
1. I need to study isolated starts (or semi-isolated) and determine a better strategy. I got off to a very slow start.
2. Intercontinental war using transports is still over-whelming to me (on levels above Nobel or Prince- where I don't have a strong military tech advantage). I think this mainly has to do with the number of enemy units I expect to encounter on the other side.
3. Finally, I need to work on my opening--as one example, I lost a ton of worker turns in the early going due mainly to my own mismanagement.
Thanks to Leif (and all the staff) for a great game, map, and learning experience.
Happy & Fun Civving to all,
Adama
Entry class: Contender
Game status: Spaceship Victory for Viking
Game date: 1926AD
Turns played: 536
Base score: 3547
Final score: 12087
Slow and low-scoring space race victory. Made a number of errors based on differences in tech tree and game mechanics from Beyond the Sword which I usually play.
Found Toku early and far away, and had the whole continent mapped early as well. Knowing Toku won't even open borders let alone trade, I played as if in an isolated start, grabbing Collosus and GLH, and generally aiming for Astronomy asap. Was able to settle peacefully enough land to win space race. However, wasted time/resources killing off Toku and Brennus anyhow, just for fun. I don't recall any of the specific challenges posed by the map, but I do have vague recollection that valuable resources for both isolation and for space were either lacking or in crummy locations. I did not adjust effectively, and thus my results were less than satisfactory. But I had fun!
...and yes, memory is the second thing to go (the first being hair).
Game status: Spaceship Victory for Viking
Game date: 1926AD
Turns played: 536
Base score: 3547
Final score: 12087
Slow and low-scoring space race victory. Made a number of errors based on differences in tech tree and game mechanics from Beyond the Sword which I usually play.
Found Toku early and far away, and had the whole continent mapped early as well. Knowing Toku won't even open borders let alone trade, I played as if in an isolated start, grabbing Collosus and GLH, and generally aiming for Astronomy asap. Was able to settle peacefully enough land to win space race. However, wasted time/resources killing off Toku and Brennus anyhow, just for fun. I don't recall any of the specific challenges posed by the map, but I do have vague recollection that valuable resources for both isolation and for space were either lacking or in crummy locations. I did not adjust effectively, and thus my results were less than satisfactory. But I had fun!
...and yes, memory is the second thing to go (the first being hair).
Congrats on your win.
What else is a good Viking supposed to do for fun?
Thank God it is only hair!...and yes, memory is the second thing to go (the first being hair).
orb
Warlord
Diplomatic win, 1856.
Really enjoyed this game because for once I seemed to be playing with a strategy in mind instead of my usual stumbling around in the dark looking for how to win.
From the first post - I was trying for early Astronomy and Berserker use to get a military victory....You can see my surprise then when this game turned into a Diplomatic victory. (Only my second diplomatic victory in the XOTM games...the first was BOTM11..(Warlord level with lots of Vassals voting for me.) so I feel this is a "better" win.
So what happened?
From the first post I had discovered the Celts and Romans in the far SE and the Japanese on my continent and was considering how to take out the Japanese. - I was also teching on the lower path to get Caravels and discover the rest of the world. - I had a galley fleet ready to transport troops along the coast to Japan
I had been delighted to see lots of Celtic and Roman cities including their capital cities on the coast so my Berserkers could have an away day outing visiting these interesting places.
But then a couple of things happened in this game which turned my game around from military to diplo.
First of all...I founded confusianism which quickly spread to the Celts/ Romans and Japs making them all Pleased/ Friendly with me....(I was wondering if I should attack the "pleased" Japanese or leave them be....I decided that since I had a huge tech lead on them I would leave them until a later point in the game when I could take them out.
Then the second game changing moment. - My caravels discovered the large southern continent with the Aztecs, English and Egyptians. - The English and Egyptians were ahead of me in tech
.....I decided I needed to do something to rein them in to prevent them from getting too far ahead....So my galley fleet was upgraded to Galleons when the appropriate tech became available and I started building a force to attack the English.
BUT....
The Aztec's then invited me to go to war against the Egyptians...OK I thought this also fits with my general plan, and 2 against 1 is good for me....and it keeps me on the good side of Monte (if there is such a thing).....My Berserker filled galleons set sail for Alexandria.
Mean time the rest of the world still didn't have contact with the Southern continent (I had deliberately not traded the necessary tech so that I could control the sea.) - I got one of my smaller cities to produce Confusian missionaries which added more and more of my religion to the friendly AI states.
The War with Egypt went well. - The Egyptian cities fell to the combined Aztec/Viking alliance. - Then the Egyptians vassalised to Monte. - War over....I wasn't too happy about the Egyptians vassalising as this meant Monte was even bigger and had a fast teching vassal to extort tech from....but it did mean the English were in trouble (sooner or later).
Do I attack England, capture cities on the southern continent and put my self in the firing line against Monte...(Doesn't sound like a good idea)...or do I build up my friendly confusian empire and vote myself to victory?...(I'll take option 2)
Sure enough it didn't take long for the Aztecs to go at it again against England. - This time I didn't join the war as I was now focussed on a diplo win. (If I could keep the Celts, Romans and Japanese happy + expand my own share of the vote I would have enough to win.)...I focussed all my research on getting to Mass Media and the UN building whilst settling the smaller islands (Hadn't planned for a GT Engineer which would have been a nice addition)
While the Aztec's were chewing on the English I completed the UN building and the voting started. - This is where I was most concerned in the game...how to manipulate the vote to my favour? The Romans and Celts had dropped confusianism so were no longer caring for their brothers of the faith.(Brennus had been +7 for this alone) - The Japanese were upset that I had a defensive pact with Rome.
And at this point I was horrified to see Aztec Infantry (which were better than my Viking Riflemen) - Had to hurry it up before Monte looked to my shores for expansion.
In the end I signed defensive pacts with Japan and the Celts, switched to the same civics as Rome, and bribed Brennus with tech to take up the faith again...Job done on the 3rd round of voting.
I'm sure I had a pretty basic approach throughout...but for me this result was a real achievement. - I'm delighted to have had such an interesting game. - Thanks to Leif for organising.
Really enjoyed this game because for once I seemed to be playing with a strategy in mind instead of my usual stumbling around in the dark looking for how to win.
From the first post - I was trying for early Astronomy and Berserker use to get a military victory....You can see my surprise then when this game turned into a Diplomatic victory. (Only my second diplomatic victory in the XOTM games...the first was BOTM11..(Warlord level with lots of Vassals voting for me.) so I feel this is a "better" win.
So what happened?
From the first post I had discovered the Celts and Romans in the far SE and the Japanese on my continent and was considering how to take out the Japanese. - I was also teching on the lower path to get Caravels and discover the rest of the world. - I had a galley fleet ready to transport troops along the coast to Japan
I had been delighted to see lots of Celtic and Roman cities including their capital cities on the coast so my Berserkers could have an away day outing visiting these interesting places.
But then a couple of things happened in this game which turned my game around from military to diplo.
First of all...I founded confusianism which quickly spread to the Celts/ Romans and Japs making them all Pleased/ Friendly with me....(I was wondering if I should attack the "pleased" Japanese or leave them be....I decided that since I had a huge tech lead on them I would leave them until a later point in the game when I could take them out.
Then the second game changing moment. - My caravels discovered the large southern continent with the Aztecs, English and Egyptians. - The English and Egyptians were ahead of me in tech
.....I decided I needed to do something to rein them in to prevent them from getting too far ahead....So my galley fleet was upgraded to Galleons when the appropriate tech became available and I started building a force to attack the English.BUT....
The Aztec's then invited me to go to war against the Egyptians...OK I thought this also fits with my general plan, and 2 against 1 is good for me....and it keeps me on the good side of Monte (if there is such a thing).....My Berserker filled galleons set sail for Alexandria.
Mean time the rest of the world still didn't have contact with the Southern continent (I had deliberately not traded the necessary tech so that I could control the sea.) - I got one of my smaller cities to produce Confusian missionaries which added more and more of my religion to the friendly AI states.
The War with Egypt went well. - The Egyptian cities fell to the combined Aztec/Viking alliance. - Then the Egyptians vassalised to Monte. - War over....I wasn't too happy about the Egyptians vassalising as this meant Monte was even bigger and had a fast teching vassal to extort tech from....but it did mean the English were in trouble (sooner or later).
Do I attack England, capture cities on the southern continent and put my self in the firing line against Monte...(Doesn't sound like a good idea)...or do I build up my friendly confusian empire and vote myself to victory?...(I'll take option 2)
Sure enough it didn't take long for the Aztecs to go at it again against England. - This time I didn't join the war as I was now focussed on a diplo win. (If I could keep the Celts, Romans and Japanese happy + expand my own share of the vote I would have enough to win.)...I focussed all my research on getting to Mass Media and the UN building whilst settling the smaller islands (Hadn't planned for a GT Engineer which would have been a nice addition)
While the Aztec's were chewing on the English I completed the UN building and the voting started. - This is where I was most concerned in the game...how to manipulate the vote to my favour? The Romans and Celts had dropped confusianism so were no longer caring for their brothers of the faith.(Brennus had been +7 for this alone) - The Japanese were upset that I had a defensive pact with Rome.
And at this point I was horrified to see Aztec Infantry (which were better than my Viking Riflemen) - Had to hurry it up before Monte looked to my shores for expansion.
In the end I signed defensive pacts with Japan and the Celts, switched to the same civics as Rome, and bribed Brennus with tech to take up the faith again...Job done on the 3rd round of voting.
I'm sure I had a pretty basic approach throughout...but for me this result was a real achievement. - I'm delighted to have had such an interesting game. - Thanks to Leif for organising.
scsabres2011
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 30
Diplo victory, 1848 AD.
So I met Brennus and Julius a little late, probably around 300 AD because I was just busy with other stuff. Founded Taoism by bulbing Philo (I think, doubt I just researched it) and they both adopted quickly. Toku remained a godless heathen. Around 500, Julius DOWed me, at pleased, out of nowhere! I think Toku probably bribed him. Fortunately his entire invasion force consisted of two archers, which I struck down with the garrison from my nearby, soon-to-be capital. Took peace ASAP.
Got Brennus to Friendly easily from favorite civic bonus using OR. DOWed Toku and took his three western cities, took peace to rebuild my army, then redeclared to wipe him off the mainland. Surprisingly, he remained independent throughout the game.
Found the other continent shortly after. Lizzy had only FIVE cities due to an early block from Ram with his second city. Attacked her with CR rifles and trebs, kept four of her cities and burned the last one since it would have been swamped by Egyptian culture. Meanwhile, Monty DOWed Ram and cut through him like a hot knife through butter, eventually forcing capitulation.
This whole time I was working toward a Diplo victory with a Taoist block. I had switched to REP for favorite civic bonuses with Julius, so he was also at Friendly. Shortly after my war with Lizzy, however, Brennus switched to Monty's Christianity! He still held me well, but now my voting block was gone, especially once Julius switched to FR. At this point I decided to bite the bullet and lose my Taoist bonuses and switch to Christianity. Not only would that get Brennus back to Friendly, but it would like keep Monty from DOWing me, since Toku was still around and those two were Pleased with one another.
Managed to finally get the victory vote after coming to the conclusion that the only way Julius would vote for me is by gifting him a city. My first Monarch win!
So I met Brennus and Julius a little late, probably around 300 AD because I was just busy with other stuff. Founded Taoism by bulbing Philo (I think, doubt I just researched it) and they both adopted quickly. Toku remained a godless heathen. Around 500, Julius DOWed me, at pleased, out of nowhere! I think Toku probably bribed him. Fortunately his entire invasion force consisted of two archers, which I struck down with the garrison from my nearby, soon-to-be capital. Took peace ASAP.
Got Brennus to Friendly easily from favorite civic bonus using OR. DOWed Toku and took his three western cities, took peace to rebuild my army, then redeclared to wipe him off the mainland. Surprisingly, he remained independent throughout the game.
Found the other continent shortly after. Lizzy had only FIVE cities due to an early block from Ram with his second city. Attacked her with CR rifles and trebs, kept four of her cities and burned the last one since it would have been swamped by Egyptian culture. Meanwhile, Monty DOWed Ram and cut through him like a hot knife through butter, eventually forcing capitulation.
This whole time I was working toward a Diplo victory with a Taoist block. I had switched to REP for favorite civic bonuses with Julius, so he was also at Friendly. Shortly after my war with Lizzy, however, Brennus switched to Monty's Christianity! He still held me well, but now my voting block was gone, especially once Julius switched to FR. At this point I decided to bite the bullet and lose my Taoist bonuses and switch to Christianity. Not only would that get Brennus back to Friendly, but it would like keep Monty from DOWing me, since Toku was still around and those two were Pleased with one another.
Managed to finally get the victory vote after coming to the conclusion that the only way Julius would vote for me is by gifting him a city. My first Monarch win!
You're welcome.I'm sure I had a pretty basic approach throughout...but for me this result was a real achievement. - I'm delighted to have had such an interesting game. - Thanks to Leif for organising.
Congrats to you both. And thanks for the write ups. Very interesting reading.Managed to finally get the victory vote after coming to the conclusion that the only way Julius would vote for me is by gifting him a city. My first Monarch win!
Alas, I appear to be the first person to post a defeat! I went down to a space race loss to Montezuma in 1998.
At 500 AD I'd planned to go for domination (without knowing all the peculiarities of the map by then of course), but due to the distances involved my first conquest wasn't until around 1600 AD (the Japanese, who I eventually vassalised).
For my next target, the choice was between Montezuma and Elizabeth. Monty was by far the stronger, but Elizabeth was busy teching into the distance. I decided to take out the English first to prevent them from getting too far ahead. Besides, they only had a very small empire (4 mainland cities), having been hemmed in by the Egyptians.
Strangely, despite being far ahead in tech, Elizabeth had a grand total of 3 redcoats in each of her cities, except london which had 5
. I didn't encounter any other units, so conquered with ease.
Things were looking ok, but in retrospect taking out Elizabeth first was a mistake. It only allowed Monty more time to grow stronger - scarily strong in fast. By 1800 ish Monty had vassalised Egypt and his power was about 6 times mine!
Clearly I have some room for improvement as a warmonger.
Having considered the folly of attacking the Aztecs straight away. The new tech leader was Julius Caesar, so with the help of the Celts who I bribed shamelessly, I was able to conquer half of the Roman cities and vassalise them.
Monty's standing army was still scarily large, but my plan was to lure it into the open (It had been sitting in Thebes for a long time, and I was sure it would head for the English cities I held) and ambush it with artillery, tanks and basically my entire stack. I duly declared in 1886 AD.
Unfortunately Monty had taken a turn to upgrade nearly all of his 30 cavalry in the stack to gunships. The only thing he didn't yet have was tanks, thankfully. Amazingly my ambush worked...until his second stack appeared the next turn. After using all my artillery, I just ran out of units to mop up with! It was all downhill on the war front after that.
The last century or so was devoted to attempts at a diplomatic victory. Thinking back, I should have attempted this much earlier, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. With two vassals (Japan and Rome) and a friendly ally (Brennus), I came close...but not close enough. I repeatedly fell short by around 50 votes. Monty and his Egyptian vassal held a blocking number of votes.
I tried to settler spam, emphasize food, anything to increase my population, but never got there. In the end, since I knew I'd soon lose to a spaceship from Monty or Brennus, I gambled by attacking Monty the turn before the next vote was due. The plan was to reduce his population enough that I'd make up the necessary votes. I managed to raze one size 17 city, but it wasn't enough...
...and then he showed up on my mainland with modern armor.
Lost a few cities, made peace and counted down the turns until the Aztecs launched their spaceship.
Despite all that, a very enjoyable game, and I think I learned a lot from this defeat! Cheers leif_erikson!
P.S. I wanted to include a screenshot of the power graph at 1800 AD, as it's quite something, but I couldn't figure out how to do it! I have the .jpeg, I just need the knowledge. Can anyone enlighten me?
At 500 AD I'd planned to go for domination (without knowing all the peculiarities of the map by then of course), but due to the distances involved my first conquest wasn't until around 1600 AD (the Japanese, who I eventually vassalised).
For my next target, the choice was between Montezuma and Elizabeth. Monty was by far the stronger, but Elizabeth was busy teching into the distance. I decided to take out the English first to prevent them from getting too far ahead. Besides, they only had a very small empire (4 mainland cities), having been hemmed in by the Egyptians.
Strangely, despite being far ahead in tech, Elizabeth had a grand total of 3 redcoats in each of her cities, except london which had 5
. I didn't encounter any other units, so conquered with ease.Things were looking ok, but in retrospect taking out Elizabeth first was a mistake. It only allowed Monty more time to grow stronger - scarily strong in fast. By 1800 ish Monty had vassalised Egypt and his power was about 6 times mine!
Clearly I have some room for improvement as a warmonger.
Having considered the folly of attacking the Aztecs straight away. The new tech leader was Julius Caesar, so with the help of the Celts who I bribed shamelessly, I was able to conquer half of the Roman cities and vassalise them.
Monty's standing army was still scarily large, but my plan was to lure it into the open (It had been sitting in Thebes for a long time, and I was sure it would head for the English cities I held) and ambush it with artillery, tanks and basically my entire stack. I duly declared in 1886 AD.
Unfortunately Monty had taken a turn to upgrade nearly all of his 30 cavalry in the stack to gunships. The only thing he didn't yet have was tanks, thankfully. Amazingly my ambush worked...until his second stack appeared the next turn. After using all my artillery, I just ran out of units to mop up with! It was all downhill on the war front after that.
The last century or so was devoted to attempts at a diplomatic victory. Thinking back, I should have attempted this much earlier, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. With two vassals (Japan and Rome) and a friendly ally (Brennus), I came close...but not close enough. I repeatedly fell short by around 50 votes. Monty and his Egyptian vassal held a blocking number of votes.
I tried to settler spam, emphasize food, anything to increase my population, but never got there. In the end, since I knew I'd soon lose to a spaceship from Monty or Brennus, I gambled by attacking Monty the turn before the next vote was due. The plan was to reduce his population enough that I'd make up the necessary votes. I managed to raze one size 17 city, but it wasn't enough...
...and then he showed up on my mainland with modern armor.
Lost a few cities, made peace and counted down the turns until the Aztecs launched their spaceship.
Despite all that, a very enjoyable game, and I think I learned a lot from this defeat! Cheers leif_erikson!
P.S. I wanted to include a screenshot of the power graph at 1800 AD, as it's quite something, but I couldn't figure out how to do it! I have the .jpeg, I just need the knowledge. Can anyone enlighten me?
Game status: Spaceship Victory for Viking
Game date: 1900 AD
Base score: 4980
Final score: 23095
Statistics
29 cities to end with...built only 8 of those.
Mfg Goods 1018 (rival best 392); Organised Religion - love it!
Relationships
Monty -18
Rameses -9 (vassal of Monty)
Elizabeth (+15, my vassal)
Caesar +8
Brennus +1
At 500 AD...
Fairly even all around, well sort of.
I got the circumnavigation bonus - complete accident as I'd set 2 triemes on auto explore. It certainly came in handy when I invaded Monty's land. But I get ahead of myself.
The plan was still Space Race with two aims: not to be bothered in going for quick Astronomy/overseas attack as I figured the better strategy was to go for Banking and the Representation/Mercantilism combo (with the Statue of Liberty in 1637 AD), and building up a solid infrastructure (mixed economy) to attack. This would also give me Knights and with the addition of Toku's cities would make up for lack of early Observatories.
The problem was I missed Liberalism by three turns but as Lizzy was attacked by Monty by then she beame my vassal and we traded a few techs. A phoney war insued for a few turns, but the writing was on the wall...Monty would come for me. I expected that. Brennus stayed neutral most of the game while Caesar got lovely with me but occasionally got stroppy. No hassle from the eastern continent on the whole (I spread my religion there at every chance).
After picking up the barb cities at 1400 AD I declared war on Toku. He was a cake walk, mostly. I made peace every 10/15 turns to re-group and then went for him again. He departed the game in 1706 AD. I should have pushed harder but I thought Monty would land on me and take advantage. In 1752 AD he did just that but I was ready, tore his Cavalry's to shreds, got more Great Generals and trashed his boats.
Then I made several small mistakes. My fault but I got bored as this game was over. No really it was. I was teching ahead, had a damn good army and a whole continent to myself. Here is how I earned my silly cap:
1) Should have jumped into Free Religion for the tech bonus (space race is about getting the techs THEN building). The diplo bonus might have helped Monty not start fighting again but I wanted the production bonus of Organised Religion because...
2) I expanded overseas and took the fight to Monty. This was a plan to keep Monty pillaging and suiciding himself against the cities I conquered, leaving MY continent alone. I could have done this without Organised Religion but Monty had taken more of Rameses cities before making him a vassal and was more of a threat. I did get Dyes for my troubles and took his capital city 3 turns before space ship launch. (Brennus and Caesar had only built 1 casing). Also I got the barb city (size 9) on the sheep island, useful as health was problem and it hogged a source of uranium too.
3) Didn't pay attention to National Wonder limit...got the Ironworks city where I wanted it (with Heroic Epic, and used Great General for Military Academy) but messed up so I couldn't get Wall Street in the capital city (holy city x2, both shrines, both religions everywhere! Capital was Oxford city). I could have been more minted than I was. Wall Street went in another holy city that spammed missionaries (thank-you Organised Religion).
4) Got the tech order for space race slightly wrong. I read somewhere it is better to head to the end first, getting Computers early (for Laboratory) and building the bigger units in the powerhouse cities. Never did that. Instead I....
5) Got sidetracked to waste time on Pentagon, Eiffel Tower and United Nations (that was a mistake as I lost the secretary vote to Brennus only to watch my civic set-up get shafted). Also built too many Mech Infs and pointless wonders like Scotland Yard. Wonder whore, moi?
What I liked about this game
An easy win on Monarch level, so either I am getting better (not likely) or this map was easy to sust out. Early choices were mostly obvious (Colossos, Great Lighthouse, city placement). Easy opponent on the start continent is a direct echo of WOTM 01...where the long continent was at the bottom of screen. Meant patient play (which I like) but would have liked at least one wonder resource nearby. Grumble grumble.
Got to build the unique building almost everywhere which was a treat as water based civs I usually ignore.
What I didn't like about this game
The strange likeness of WOTM 01. Samey. Seriously... load the map up and compare, even down to the mountains and naff desert bit in the middle on the start continent. Sure it's meant to keep Vikings and Japanese apart, never worked of course, as in WOTM 01, it just became a home for the barbs before someone i.e. me, went attacking the feeble opponent on the other side. Been there, killed that, won that too.
Never felt the bonus of the unique unit, at least it did not feel any different to Macemen, mostly because Knights and Catapults pounded Toku down enough. Then the Riflemen took over.
As I had decided on space race early on (correctly guessing the other land masses were far away - and I bet that you need more than a whole one for domination) I never felt I had any problems to solve. If I had been on par or behind in techs then it would have been different.
What I might change about the map
1) Lose the desert bit
2) Either have more small islands or lose them all and keep it large land masses
3) Put the metal resources in less-predictable locations
4) Add a couple of rivers
5) Try a north-south continent (i.e. turn map 90 degrees)
Game date: 1900 AD
Base score: 4980
Final score: 23095
Statistics
29 cities to end with...built only 8 of those.
Mfg Goods 1018 (rival best 392); Organised Religion - love it!
Relationships
Monty -18
Rameses -9 (vassal of Monty)
Elizabeth (+15, my vassal)
Caesar +8
Brennus +1
At 500 AD...
Fairly even all around, well sort of.
I got the circumnavigation bonus - complete accident as I'd set 2 triemes on auto explore. It certainly came in handy when I invaded Monty's land. But I get ahead of myself.
The plan was still Space Race with two aims: not to be bothered in going for quick Astronomy/overseas attack as I figured the better strategy was to go for Banking and the Representation/Mercantilism combo (with the Statue of Liberty in 1637 AD), and building up a solid infrastructure (mixed economy) to attack. This would also give me Knights and with the addition of Toku's cities would make up for lack of early Observatories.
The problem was I missed Liberalism by three turns but as Lizzy was attacked by Monty by then she beame my vassal and we traded a few techs. A phoney war insued for a few turns, but the writing was on the wall...Monty would come for me. I expected that. Brennus stayed neutral most of the game while Caesar got lovely with me but occasionally got stroppy. No hassle from the eastern continent on the whole (I spread my religion there at every chance).
After picking up the barb cities at 1400 AD I declared war on Toku. He was a cake walk, mostly. I made peace every 10/15 turns to re-group and then went for him again. He departed the game in 1706 AD. I should have pushed harder but I thought Monty would land on me and take advantage. In 1752 AD he did just that but I was ready, tore his Cavalry's to shreds, got more Great Generals and trashed his boats.
Then I made several small mistakes. My fault but I got bored as this game was over. No really it was. I was teching ahead, had a damn good army and a whole continent to myself. Here is how I earned my silly cap:
1) Should have jumped into Free Religion for the tech bonus (space race is about getting the techs THEN building). The diplo bonus might have helped Monty not start fighting again but I wanted the production bonus of Organised Religion because...
2) I expanded overseas and took the fight to Monty. This was a plan to keep Monty pillaging and suiciding himself against the cities I conquered, leaving MY continent alone. I could have done this without Organised Religion but Monty had taken more of Rameses cities before making him a vassal and was more of a threat. I did get Dyes for my troubles and took his capital city 3 turns before space ship launch. (Brennus and Caesar had only built 1 casing). Also I got the barb city (size 9) on the sheep island, useful as health was problem and it hogged a source of uranium too.
3) Didn't pay attention to National Wonder limit...got the Ironworks city where I wanted it (with Heroic Epic, and used Great General for Military Academy) but messed up so I couldn't get Wall Street in the capital city (holy city x2, both shrines, both religions everywhere! Capital was Oxford city). I could have been more minted than I was. Wall Street went in another holy city that spammed missionaries (thank-you Organised Religion).
4) Got the tech order for space race slightly wrong. I read somewhere it is better to head to the end first, getting Computers early (for Laboratory) and building the bigger units in the powerhouse cities. Never did that. Instead I....
5) Got sidetracked to waste time on Pentagon, Eiffel Tower and United Nations (that was a mistake as I lost the secretary vote to Brennus only to watch my civic set-up get shafted). Also built too many Mech Infs and pointless wonders like Scotland Yard. Wonder whore, moi?
What I liked about this game
An easy win on Monarch level, so either I am getting better (not likely) or this map was easy to sust out. Early choices were mostly obvious (Colossos, Great Lighthouse, city placement). Easy opponent on the start continent is a direct echo of WOTM 01...where the long continent was at the bottom of screen. Meant patient play (which I like) but would have liked at least one wonder resource nearby. Grumble grumble.
Got to build the unique building almost everywhere which was a treat as water based civs I usually ignore.
What I didn't like about this game
The strange likeness of WOTM 01. Samey. Seriously... load the map up and compare, even down to the mountains and naff desert bit in the middle on the start continent. Sure it's meant to keep Vikings and Japanese apart, never worked of course, as in WOTM 01, it just became a home for the barbs before someone i.e. me, went attacking the feeble opponent on the other side. Been there, killed that, won that too.
Never felt the bonus of the unique unit, at least it did not feel any different to Macemen, mostly because Knights and Catapults pounded Toku down enough. Then the Riflemen took over.
As I had decided on space race early on (correctly guessing the other land masses were far away - and I bet that you need more than a whole one for domination) I never felt I had any problems to solve. If I had been on par or behind in techs then it would have been different.
What I might change about the map
1) Lose the desert bit
2) Either have more small islands or lose them all and keep it large land masses
3) Put the metal resources in less-predictable locations
4) Add a couple of rivers
5) Try a north-south continent (i.e. turn map 90 degrees)
Attachments
Despite all that, a very enjoyable game, and I think I learned a lot from this defeat! Cheers leif_erikson!
The easiest method is to attach the screenshot. When you hit reply, look below the box you type in and you will find another box titled Additional Options. Within that box is a button, Manage Attachments. Click the button and a box comes up in which you can search your hard drive for the file and upload it. It will tell you which files you can upload and the size limits (.jpeg is 500 KB). Once you have it attached, it shows as a thumb on the bottom of your post and when you click on it, it enlarges so people can see it.P.S. I wanted to include a screenshot of the power graph at 1800 AD, as it's quite something, but I couldn't figure out how to do it! I have the .jpeg, I just need the knowledge. Can anyone enlighten me?
You can also get to this by clicking EDIT in your post, then find the Go Advanced button and look for Manage Attachments. Then as above.
Thank you for the feedback.
I added the small islands for a couple of reason. First, with the Vikings unique building adding one to the movement of Ships, it was my attempt at giving players a chance to utilize their Berserks against Brennus and Caesar without discovery of Astronomy. If you also circumnavigated, then you should have had +4 movement. In addition, for those who weren't warmongering, the islands gave a way to contact someone to trade with as Toku isn't a very nice guy.
As a new Staff member, I didn't go all the way back to WOTM01 to check and perhaps should have. Didn't think of it really, so I learned something.
I'll try to do better next time. 
I'm afraid mine is going to be a no-submit. Sorry Leif to do this on your first map
I decided to wander around as per my remarks in the pre-game discussion. After 4 turns of wandering and not being too happy with what I saw, I went for a spot by the rice to the S, on the coast of the inland sea, which picked up the rice and cows (but just missed the southern gold). It made the best long-term CS capital I could see and would be very good at that. However as I continued to explore it became apparent that its location made it next to impossible to place other cities so as to get good high-science cities while using most available tiles; and with only limited usable land that seemed to be game-breaking. I played on to around 1000AD I think, but it was obvious my initial location had handicapped my game to the point of it not being much fun, so decided I'd rather abandon it and replay, settling in-place.
Interesting challenge though - very nicely designed map.
I decided to wander around as per my remarks in the pre-game discussion. After 4 turns of wandering and not being too happy with what I saw, I went for a spot by the rice to the S, on the coast of the inland sea, which picked up the rice and cows (but just missed the southern gold). It made the best long-term CS capital I could see and would be very good at that. However as I continued to explore it became apparent that its location made it next to impossible to place other cities so as to get good high-science cities while using most available tiles; and with only limited usable land that seemed to be game-breaking. I played on to around 1000AD I think, but it was obvious my initial location had handicapped my game to the point of it not being much fun, so decided I'd rather abandon it and replay, settling in-place.
Interesting challenge though - very nicely designed map.
Sorry to hear this.I'm afraid mine is going to be a no-submit. Sorry Leif to do this on your first map
Hope you enjoyed it the second time through! That'll teach you to wander on my maps!
PutCashIn
Prince
I had a 1900's space win, I'm still amazed I found vanilla and warlords so fun, they just look and play UGLY compared to BTS. Dunno why I think that though.
I beat on Tofu with Cavalry, as they are so bloody cheap and nasty. (fixed in BTS)
I bribed a run away Brennus into war with Ramsses, which drew others in and thus luckily there was no homeland invasion whilst I built up space ship parts.
In vanilla and warlrds I tend to go for rocketry first raher than the new superconductors for labs like I do in BTS. Then again, I'm poos, so I cant really say that that would be 'advice.'
I beat on Tofu with Cavalry, as they are so bloody cheap and nasty. (fixed in BTS)
I bribed a run away Brennus into war with Ramsses, which drew others in and thus luckily there was no homeland invasion whilst I built up space ship parts.
In vanilla and warlrds I tend to go for rocketry first raher than the new superconductors for labs like I do in BTS. Then again, I'm poos, so I cant really say that that would be 'advice.'
Teddy Slavic
Chieftain
Contender save, Space victory 1890.
Since I met Monty my target to conquer was defined. Really dislike this guy. Through three wars Monty was completely destroyed, with intermission on helping Caesar in his war with Lizzy (the main reason for this effort was land oil resource on island which was under British rule). Immediately after getting rid off Monty it appears that the only aluminium resource under Viking control situated on the former Aztec territory, so these wars appeared very usefull for the matter of producing SS components. No one researched Mass Media, all the rest AI at 1890 had no own Apollo Program.
Since I met Monty my target to conquer was defined. Really dislike this guy. Through three wars Monty was completely destroyed, with intermission on helping Caesar in his war with Lizzy (the main reason for this effort was land oil resource on island which was under British rule). Immediately after getting rid off Monty it appears that the only aluminium resource under Viking control situated on the former Aztec territory, so these wars appeared very usefull for the matter of producing SS components. No one researched Mass Media, all the rest AI at 1890 had no own Apollo Program.
At 500AD, my capital 2S of the starting spot was size 12, I had just settled city #6 and captured #7 from the barbs. I was researching Printing Press (before Education because there was no chance of getting 6 universities any time soon) at about 250 bpt, from memory. Trade routes to Brennus/Julius/Tokugawa had just opened up and I had met all the AI.
My research went PP->Education->...->Economics for the free GM, then I turned off research while building Oxford.
Around this time, I decided I hadn't expanded well enough to go for space, so I switched to a Diplomatic Victory.
Since I didn't have a huge empire, I focused on vertical growth in my capital (fully cottaged), trading for many happiness and health resources, with Nidaros hitting size 20 in 1274 and size 23 in 1486. This meant the Great Merchant gave me over 5000 gold (in overseas Temple of Artemis city Bibracte)!
Oxford was built in my capital in 1406, and I had 19000 gold in the bank. This was way too much, and I realised I would have over 12000 left when I finished Mass Media.
In reaction to this, I researched/traded to Democracy+Communism, and built the Kremlin on my run to MM.
Sure enough, when I researched MM in 1562, I had enough gold to finish the UN as soon as Democracy finished. I built the UN in 1577, and won at the second attempt in 1616.
On the diplomatic side of things, I switched to Christianity before 1000AD, as it was shared by Toku, Julius and Brennus, and organised a dogpile on Egypt including Montezuma, Toku, JC and Brennus. (I needed Monte because one of he and JC would be my opponent, and they were too close in population to tell which it would be)
I had a slight blip, when, a couple of turns before the first victory vote, Tokugawa switched to Free Religion, and I lost his votes. He voted for me the second time around, however, thanks to my generous tech gifts and the mutual military struggle bonus increasing.
Mistakes I made:
Not expanding quickly enough. Thus Oxford was very late.
Not building any GE wonders, so there was no GE to rush the UN.
Not building the GLib or having a good GP Farm.
Leaving research at 0% for way too long.
All in all, I didn't do too badly, but not great. 1616AD Diplomatic Victory
My research went PP->Education->...->Economics for the free GM, then I turned off research while building Oxford.
Around this time, I decided I hadn't expanded well enough to go for space, so I switched to a Diplomatic Victory.
Since I didn't have a huge empire, I focused on vertical growth in my capital (fully cottaged), trading for many happiness and health resources, with Nidaros hitting size 20 in 1274 and size 23 in 1486. This meant the Great Merchant gave me over 5000 gold (in overseas Temple of Artemis city Bibracte)!
Oxford was built in my capital in 1406, and I had 19000 gold in the bank. This was way too much, and I realised I would have over 12000 left when I finished Mass Media.
In reaction to this, I researched/traded to Democracy+Communism, and built the Kremlin on my run to MM.
Sure enough, when I researched MM in 1562, I had enough gold to finish the UN as soon as Democracy finished. I built the UN in 1577, and won at the second attempt in 1616.
On the diplomatic side of things, I switched to Christianity before 1000AD, as it was shared by Toku, Julius and Brennus, and organised a dogpile on Egypt including Montezuma, Toku, JC and Brennus. (I needed Monte because one of he and JC would be my opponent, and they were too close in population to tell which it would be)
I had a slight blip, when, a couple of turns before the first victory vote, Tokugawa switched to Free Religion, and I lost his votes. He voted for me the second time around, however, thanks to my generous tech gifts and the mutual military struggle bonus increasing.
Mistakes I made:
Not expanding quickly enough. Thus Oxford was very late.
Not building any GE wonders, so there was no GE to rush the UN.
Not building the GLib or having a good GP Farm.
Leaving research at 0% for way too long.
All in all, I didn't do too badly, but not great. 1616AD Diplomatic Victory
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