News: WOTM 22 Final Spoiler - Game Submitted or Abandoned

[MacBalt]

Well, I wanted to test those berserkers...

The berserkers were great, but I found this to be a very challenging game -- especially for Monarch level. I was dead set on a military victory, and I got one -- even though it took forever and I probably would have been better off changing my strategy.

Domination in 1903, challenger save.

Seemed like as soon as I was able to shut one tech fiend down (Liz was the early leader) another one would leap ahead right after. Monty was a royal pain in the Aztec. He took so long to capitulate I ended up in one of those eye-glazed stupors and mis-clicked badly, prolonging the war (and strangling my research) even more. Ended up having to face Celtic tanks and Roman mechanized infantry before I could finally put this one away. Was this really Monarch level? Was I really that slow?

Great game design Leif! I certainly felt tested in a ways I didn't expect.

 

[MacBalt]

What I might change about the map
1) Lose the desert bit
2) Either have more small islands or lose them all and keep it large land masses
3) Put the metal resources in less-predictable locations
4) Add a couple of rivers
5) Try a north-south continent (i.e. turn map 90 degrees)

Hmm... I have to say I particularly liked this map design. Early trading was possible but in no way obvious. You had to go looking for trade partners because they weren't going to find you on their own -- at least, not for quite some time. I thought that was a nice change from either meeting everyone in the first 100 turns or being isolated with one or two other civs. The small islands allowing circumnavigation without connecting to one large continent kept me guessing about the question of Astro far longer than usual. With such a devious map-maker , I was half expecting another island chain barely linking the two Southern continents right along the ice sheets. The other stuff seems neither here nor there to me. Rivers near the starting location would have been a nice plus, but the slower start also made for a unique challenge in this game (not to mention those frustrating barbarians pouring in from the Eastern deserts and tundra).

 

[mtt9999]

First I will set the pretext - chose VC space race in the early AD's after I discovered how far AIs were away and how beneficial the financial trait would be towards that goal.

What I didn't like about this game

Never felt the bonus of the unique unit, at least it did not feel any different to Macemen, mostly because Knights and Catapults pounded Toku down enough. Then the Riflemen took over.

Me too - in fact I never even built a berserker -well maybe one in the end for good measure!! The unit seemed useless as a middle-aged war on this map was not beneficial:- the AI's were too far away to sustain any significant attack, and the distance also included high maintence costs if capturing them. Knowledge is power in space race and the mainteance costs, and the time building troops when I could be focusing on the every important universities and liberalism?? I'll take the knowledge.

Space race victory 1910AD. (~11500 adjusted score) Weak score but I am happy with the win - the score was probably for my lack of population and wonders as I tried not to be wasteful.

Pretty uneventful game (doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it). I got liberalism and thus free religion early (although three turns after Liz got it - damn english!), therefore most AIs were atleast pleased with me. - so no AI attacked me. I vassalized Toku for fun, and to increase knowledge a little.

I would say I am a middle range civ player on the forums (typically reaffirmed when results are posted), and I really enjoyed these settings - especially the victory

What I might change about the map
1) Lose the desert bit
2) Either have more small islands or lose them all and keep it large land masses
3) Put the metal resources in less-predictable locations
4) Add a couple of rivers
5) Try a north-south continent (i.e. turn map 90 degrees)

1) Of course the desert was a hinderance (prevented supreme early expansion before CoL). I still liked it there - it made the map a little more 'real'.

2) I never really did anything with the islands. I had a one track mind - the stars.

3) I like metal. I like them close by. I like them accessible early to escape those pesky barbs! I think you made the oil and uranium tricky (and even the alluminum if you didn't expand west - although it sounds like everybody did anyway...)

4) Yeh - I like rivers leif

5) I'm glad this map just wasn't 2 big continents. It seems like that type have been popping up lately, this added some varience.

Good job everyone...

 

[mtt9999]

Before this game, I was seriously considering giving xOTM a rest, after some very frustrating experiences and the impression that I was not really improving, just hitting my head against the wall. I also find the whole thing a bit 'procedural', a bit like 'winning by numbers', especially when looking at the top players and their performances. This is not meant as criticism, just an observation from a time-poor mid-level player who just wants a bit of epicness in his games. It seemed like it was no fun anymore for me. This game, however, WAS a lot of fun, so many thanks to Leif. I look forward to more challenges from him.

Likewise. I have been losing for such a long time before this month (now with three straight victories) Infact I think from November through January I came close but lost almost every game... I was noticing that I was investing too much time in the game for pure frustration. I even abandoned BOTM 15. However recently I have begun posting and trying to participate more in the forums, and I find the overall experience becomes much more enjoyable (if nothing else it makes you go back and analyze your game - and discover why you made certain choices, whether they were good or bad)

 

[kcd_swede]

Likewise. I have been losing for such a long time before this month (now with three straight victories) Infact I think from November through January I came close but lost almost every game... I was noticing that I was investing too much time in the game for pure frustration. I even abandoned BOTM 15. However recently I have begun posting and trying to participate more in the forums, and I find the overall experience becomes much more enjoyable (if nothing else it makes you go back and analyze your game - and discover why you made certain choices, whether they were good or bad)

Been there, done that. I actually found this place when I got so frustreated trying to move up from Prince to Monarch that I took advice from my kids and Googled after Civ4 cheat codes. Ended up here... originally bummed that there are no proper cheat codes for Civ4, but now glad that there aren't.

Post what you did, what you really were uncertain about, and folks here will give you tips. Its that simple. Of course, applying the knowliedge is never as easy as the teacher thinks... but in 8 months I've gone from so-so Prince to an Immortal contender. I understand the game in a whole different way now. Still much to learn.

In short... the more you post, the more you learn, the funner you have with Civ4.

 

[leif erikson]

Post what you did, what you really were uncertain about, and folks here will give you tips. Its that simple. Of course, applying the knowliedge is never as easy as the teacher thinks... but in 8 months I've gone from so-so Prince to an Immortal contender. I understand the game in a whole different way now. Still much to learn.

In short... the more you post, the more you learn, the funner you have with Civ4.

Well said!

And thanks to you all for the feedback on the map design.

 

[da_Vinci]

What is a usual dV game? Systematic warring after cats, get a "double civ" powered by the FP, then expand to either a dom or a diplo.

So, give the isolated start, I decided to try a tech run to space. Not my usual, and as we shall see, not my forte

I settled 2 S, eventually got GLib in the seafood fest to the north, and the double gold city to the south was my second one.

Went on cruise control, expanding slowly east, taking some barb cities here and there. Got a bit careless about trade impacts on relations ... so by the time I shared a border with Toku, Monte was already unhappy, and friendly with Toku.

So I figured on a peaceful tech cruise. All well, with a tech lead, until 1796 Monte declares, and rips up all of my seafood with his destroyers. Well, at least he did not land invade. Oh, his vassal, Ramses, participated as well.

1817 Toku delcares ... but I had tech superiority and started taking his cities.

Monte would not make peace until I gave back a city I took on the island east of Japan ... my only oil city. Finally, I take a city by amphib assault from Monte just to give it back for peace ... the WW was killing me. Also made peace with Toku for same reason.

10 turns later I decided to finish Toku ... felt I needed to grow to deter Monte from a second war. His power was insane. That let JC run out to a big tech lead, and I could not close the gap.

Got spies into his cities building parts, but could not make money fast enough to put a dent in his production, and he launched in 1957.

SS loss 1957, base 4667, final 6532.

dV

 

[Cactus Pete]

Domination victory 1490 -- 165K

Shortly after 500AD, the Norse nation mastered both the intricacies of Astronomy and the construction of maces, which greatly expanded their opportunities to plunder, pillage, and subjugate other civilizations. Ragnar the Rapacious, whose voracious and salacious appetites had heretofore been bridled by geography, was now free to satisfy his needs.

Having learned that the Egyptians (possessors of the GLH) were greatly weakened by their ongoing war with the Aztecs, Ragnar set sail south with avaricious intentions, his galleons loaded with catapults and beserkers. After several brief but bloody battles, a remaining Egyptian city gladly capitulated to preserve some small remnant of their once great empire.

Ragnar then turned his raiders on the nearby British (technically advanced, but weak) and ruthlessly seized all but one of their cities, gaining capitulation and knowledge of Guilds in exchange for peace. The Aztecs, strong in number but undeveloped technologically, had no match for the Viking beserkers, and Ragnar hastened to capture their cities and wipe their civilization from the map. There was a brief setback when two brave Aztec HAs defeated two Viking 3CRbeserkers on a hill and slowed the pace of slaughter, but the tenacious Norsemen inexorably conquered the entire continent, even as their scientists mastered Engineering and Chemistry (thereby putting themselves out of work).

With added movement, advanced siege weapons, and CRbeserkers upgraded to grenadiers, first the Celts and then the Romans were annihilated by Ragnar’s ever-growing ranks of raiders. Finally, the Viking czar of war returned to his home continent, summarily dispensed with all but one Japanese city, settled a few empty landscapes, advanced the culture slider, and soon declared dominion over all of civilization.

It is said that Ragnar never adapted to a peaceful existence and spent his old age desperately seeking an audience with Thor, hoping the god would send him raiding in another world.

 

[MacBalt]

Wait 'till that Norse guy meets Cactus Pete in one of those other worlds... Then he'll get his ass kicked properly!

 

[leif erikson]

Got spies into his cities building parts, but could not make money fast enough to put a dent in his production, and he launched in 1957.

SS loss 1957, base 4667, final 6532.

dV

Sorry to hear of your loss. Thanks for the write up of your valiant efforts.

Glad to hear that you decided to break the dV mold and strike out in a new direction! Keep up the good work...

It is said that Ragnar never adapted to a peaceful existence and spent his old age desperately seeking an audience with Thor, hoping the god would send him raiding in another world.

Didn't know you were so gifted a writer.

I often wish Thor would loan me Mjöllnir in order that I may defeat my enemies so soundly! And quickly too...

 

[leif erikson]

Wait 'till that Norse guy meets Cactus Pete in one of those other worlds... Then he'll get his ass kicked properly!

That would be something to see!!

 

[Conquistador 63]

In my game, Ragnar wasn't as bloodthirsty as in CP's game - he just wanted to reach out for the stars as fast as he could.

He just felt it was unfair that English lands were so much richer than his own, so he decided to annex them to the Viking empire. The required investment for the whole war effort was like a dozen cannons and grens each, and a few frigates and galleons. A handful of berserkers had previously captured 3 or 4 barb cities. Ragnar might have gone overboard and overestimated the power of state property, ending with 20+ cities and zero courthouses.

The most interesting part of the game was managing the diplo environment. Oddly enough, at least for someone who wants to go to space, this time I decided to be aligned with the "axis of evil" (Toku, Brennus, Monty and Julius) and pick on the nice guys Ramses and Liz. Friendly Julius turned out to be a decent tech partner (IIRC I got stuff like Rifling, Railroad, Biology and Combustion from him), while Monty did the dirty job of harrassing Ramses, even vassalizing him near the end.

I believe this was the best overall strategy, but it was poorly implemented. For instance, I can't remember the last time it took me so long to build Oxford in a space game. I had Edu since 695AD but could only begin it in 1466AD (already too late), then stupidly lost an ex-barb city next to England with the 6th Uni in 1490AD . So I had to build another Uni (finished 1541AD) somewhere else and finally completed Oxford in 1552AD.
I also think I should have run slavery (instead of caste) for a longer period, as some cities took forever to build basic infrastructure.

Nowhere near a brilliant result, but I enjoyed this game a lot. Thanks, Leif!

 

[leif erikson]

Congrats on your victory!

And I am very glad you enjoyed the game. Thanks.

 

[The-Hawk]

Conquest victory in 1613 AD for something like 86K. I decided to clear Togu first, then went for the far continent because Liz was teching ahead. I went for Liz, then Ramesses, then Monty. Brennus went next, then Julius last. Julius was pretty stubborn at the end, delaying my finish. He had some cities spread out on islands and would not capitulate until I had him down to two cities.

Leif, thanks for the game .

 

[Cactus Pete]

Conquest victory in 1613 AD for something like 86K. I decided to clear Togu first, then went for the far continent because Liz was teching ahead. I went for Liz, then Ramesses, then Monty. Brennus went next, then Julius last. Julius was pretty stubborn at the end, delaying my finish. He had some cities spread out on islands and would not capitulate until I had him down to two cities.

Leif, thanks for the game .

With beserkers to upgrade, why were island cities a problem?

"I often wish Thor would loan me Mjöllnir" Think he passed it on to one of his sons.

 

[The-Hawk]

With beserkers to upgrade, why were island cities a problem?

Sorry, wasn't clear. They weren't a problem to kill. Just took me some extra time to get galleons loaded and move to them. I was attacking Julius from the Brennus side of the continent, he was on islands further east. I was hoping that Julius would capitulate without me sailing to them. He didn't so I lost several turns at the end as a result.

 

[leif erikson]

Conquest victory in 1613 AD for something like 86K.

Congratulations on your win!
Caesar always seems to take longer to capitulate. Stubborn, isn't he?

"I often wish Thor would loan me Mjöllnir" Think he passed it on to one of his sons.

Perhaps you have relations somewhere you don't know about?

 

[cabert]

Arrgggggggggggggg

I'm stubborn.
And I'm no good at diplo.

So when I try for diplo, it takes a while.
And sometimes I lose.
space race victory for julius in 1938, 2 turns later (did I mention I'm a thickhead?) I would have gotten my diplo.

I didn't submit, but wanted to mention I played and lost.

 

[leif erikson]

So when I try for diplo, it takes a while.
And sometimes I lose.
space race victory for julius in 1938, 2 turns later (did I mention I'm a thickhead?) I would have gotten my diplo.

Nice try. I have been there more than I care to admit.

Sometimes being a thickhead can lead to a win as you keep trying. Can't succeed if you quit!

I didn't submit, but wanted to mention I played and lost.

Submitting a loss gives you more points than not submitting.
Glad you played.

 

[cabert]

Submitting a loss gives you more points than not submitting.
Glad you played.

Well, I wanted to see if at least my last war which I counted would give me just enough votes (I accepted peace for a size 2 city, in this hope) was indeed leading to a diplo win.
So I didn't save right after the loss. Can I submit a 2 turns later save?