Next War Revolutions preview

[digitCruncher]

Right... there is a LOT to say about having a massive production bonus over the AI. However, having the 13th lowest life expectancy was... interesting. Not surprising, as many of my cities are running with 11 net unhealthiness

Anyway... an update.

Apologies for the images. Unfortunately, I still have some tweaking to do with this ImageShack toolbar. In the meantime, everything is described, and if you want to look at the state of the world, just click the link

Regeneration​

[img=http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/355/civ4screenshot0000kq0.th.jpg]

July 1989: Well... the Internet is (again) behind that of reality, but meh. It will secure my hold on the tech lead.

[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3412/civ4screenshot0001ms3.th.jpg]

July 1991: The Byzantines and the Babylonians... and the Vikings and the Dutch and the Incas are all having constant revolutionary problems. Maybe the AI hates this mod somehow??


[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6771/civ4screenshot0002xu9.th.jpg]

July 1992: Whats highway robbery? 7 modern era techs... for ~600 gold. Joao III may be more than a LITTLE crazy... But I needed his (?) support for the war. I also give out a bunch of other techs to my 'trustworthy' vassals (Greece and Russia)

[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7772/civ4screenshot0003xq5.th.jpg]

January 1996: Hollywood. 30 years late, but meh. These things need to be taken with a pinch of salt...

[img=http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4199/civ4screenshot0004un4.th.jpg]
[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7334/civ4screenshot0005dl2.th.jpg]

January 1998: BIG events. Firstly the Dutch super-empire declares war on the Babylonian super-empire. Considering that they are already LOSING this war (By now I have rebuilt my military to approximately pre-O-day levels, and I am showing no signs of slowing down), that was weird.

Then, the Dutch allow 5 of his BEST CITIES (All of these cities are cities with 4 religions, a holy city in at least 2 of them, and 60~80% culture!) to go to Isabella, but in exchange, the revolution REALLY slows.

Finally, the Babylonians have MORE revolutionaries... Ack.

[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/212/civ4screenshot0006dv4.th.jpg]

January 1999: The Japanese rebels pop up, and attempt to over-throw the Dutch. They fail, and the Carthaginians who follow in their foot-steps ALSO fail... the Dutch are just too secure for rebels to take them down. An organized civ like mine will do it...

[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3233/civ4screenshot0007yr0.th.jpg]

July 2001: The first Mongolian city is razed, and Partisans take to the hills. I cut them all down. Tanks are powerful.

Oh, and the Partisan event is fixed now. It happens 100% of the time, in 100% of the games, if and only if the civ is running emancipation. It makes razing cities difficult. And keeping cities is just as bad!!

[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/8192/civ4screenshot0008py7.th.jpg]

July 2002: I gather intelligence against the Dutch, and what I see amazes me...

They have 10 unhappiness in a size 10 city, due to WW!! Since they are constantly adopting Universal Suffrage to suppress revolution, this is unlikely to change any time soon... but that is just insane!!

I think that my theory about civs getting 'capped' WW is wrong. Obviously, however, Monty has found a way to reduce WW.

[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2914/civ4screenshot0009zu6.th.jpg]

July 2005: A new bug to fix. Methinks its because there is no more room in the high-scores list to my right, and thus further civs won't be spawned. Its a good bug, however, as keeping it will prevent what I call 'World-wide stupifying'

[img=http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7911/civ4screenshot0010ix1.th.jpg]

January 2008: The capturing of his two 'buffer' cities between me and Russia, as well as further losses in his war, mean that Egypt FINALLY breaks away. As soon as I am able to make a nice bit of gold out of her, I settle for 80 gold now, and 9 GPT for the next 10 turns.

[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7382/civ4screenshot0011lt8.th.jpg]

July 2008: I am the most advanced civilization in the world. Not shocking. HOWEVER, Joao III, my VASSAL, is the SECOND most advanced, and the Incans slightly further back.

[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7581/civ4screenshot0012eq0.th.jpg]

July 2009: Sure enough, the Dutch and the Babylonians get peace...

[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6769/civ4screenshot0013kk5.th.jpg]

January 2010: And the very next turn, that opertunity arises for me. I decline, simply as I could get some VERY nice gold supplies (and a small city, on the edge of the 'chaotic' zone) for peace, and a +1 relations isn't going to cut it

[img=http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5931/civ4screenshot0014ip8.th.jpg]

July 2010: This has NEVER happened to me before... On the same turn, Kublai Khan breaks free from the Dutch, as he has been reduced to less than 50% of his original land area, due to me razing his last major city, with Modern Armors (my NEW toys. NOTHING can touch them, as long as the Artillery destroy all the city defenses first). Then, the VERY SAME TURN, he becomes a VOLUNTARY vassal of the person he just shunned. Whats the logic of that? I think the AI said "He is losing this war, so we will leave this agreement", and then the very same turn "Dang, I am all alone in this massive world war. I need someone to protect me. Hey, William, you are in the same wars I am in ^^)

[img=http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/43/civ4screenshot0015tj3.th.jpg]

July 2011: I get the technology "Hydroponics" the first future tech.

There are new sounds for these techs, and (sorry man, but the truth needs to be told) these voices have the same problem as Sid's tech quotes have. They are FAR too expressive. Even though I have only got one tech quote so far, the fact that the speaker over-emphasized "sure" in that quote was just cringe-inducing.

That said, the voice is slightly lower than Sids. Thats a good thing, at least, and at least my brains aren't leaking out my ears However, less expression would be a good thing. I can't possibly imagine Dexter Ambrose (if he existed), finding his own comment amusing. A sombre voice would be MUCH better, or even one where the word 'sure' is less emphasized. All in all, 5/10 for the voice. Nothing to bee-line for, unless, like me, you are running an Agrian Economy.

Now, a few comments about the mod in general.

Its a great mod. Big ups to everyone involved, and it is awesome. A few tweaks I am suggesting (as the game draws to a slow and powerful finale I may add more, but ATM its not that bad)

#1: Have you considered nerfing Mind Control Centers. I am not 100% sure on how expensive they are to build, but -15% is NOTHING considering the possibilities having NO UNHAPPINESS can cause. For example:

A) Running an Agrian Economy, and low on production anyway? Re-introduce slavery. Even the slaves will LOVE being tortured by the whip
B) Need Culture ASAP? Or have the Statue of Liberty, and want to run a SE again, just for kicks and giggles? Caste System is for you.
C) WW a problem? Don't worry, the Mind Control center will allow you to maintain Universal Suffrage (or maybe Representation, with Caste System) while still having 30 WW in each size 10 city. As long as a spy doesn't blow it up.

#2: Recycling Centers NEEDED to be nerfed, but what you did was CRAZY. For the SAME PRICE as an old Center, you now gain only 1 health, and 1 happy, whereas you USED to get up to, and beyond, 5 health. Make it 3 health (like an expensive, but happy inducing hospital), or reduce the price to around 70% of that of an Aqueduct.

#3: The AI is a little bad at maintaining stability. Now, some civs in this game, are REALLY stable (The Dutch, The Chinese, the Babylonians, and the Egyptians are all good examples), HOWEVER once they get a small problem, the problem sky-rockets out of control. They get locked in a death spiral, where the revolutionaries cut off happiness, and health resources, destroy large garrisons, and generally reduce the stability of these already weak cities. Also, the default period of revolt further reduces stability, and this means that a revolution can destroy an entire civilization (Remember Persia?)

Recommendations:
A) Every successful time rebels pop up, the stability of the city INCREASES (As all the rebels have left now, yes?), just as if you bribed the city. If it already does so, it should be increased, so that the stability INCREASES, even after the negative effects of the revolt that accompanies it is taken into account

B) Remove the revolt entirely. Instead, reduce the city size, and damage all stationed units.

C) Let the AI get big bonuses in Stability. This is because like the Vikings, and the Persians (and, I fear, the Dutch), after a rebel empire gets a foot-hold, the entire civilization crumbles. However, a Human player would do everything to try and stop them

D) Make the AI smarter in suppressing revolutions. Cities should NEVER have unhappy faces, unless of course they are having WW problems, in which case, starving the unhappy populace should be done ASAP, and as fast as possible too, to reduce the stability hit, or Cultural Output increased. Also, resource trades should address major stability problems.

Now a couple of things I have noticed:

'Revolutionary Death Spiral': Already covered. Basically: [An AI civilization] gets locked in a death spiral, where the revolutionaries cut off happiness, and health resources, destroy large garrisons, and generally reduce the stability of these already weak cities. Revolts caused by the revolution also destabilizes all these cities, and thus more revolutionaries spawn, and more health/happy resources and garrisons get wiped out. Then after some cities fall, the 'stable' cities become unstable (as losing a city globally decreases stability) and revolutionaries spawn, until there is nothing, or nearly nothing, left.
Example: Persia/Vikings/The Dutch (maybe?) The Persians are a very glorious example of a Death Spiral. I mean, from the second strongest civ, with an insane tech lead to 1 (eventually 2) cities, with no resources, a heap of coast tiles, and the rest... ICE.

'Chaotic Zone': Now, after a civ is wiped out due to the Death Spiral, The rebels have to fight the fact that over half of their 'culture' is STILL the original civs culture. Now, if this issue is not addressed quickly, rebels for the rebels will spawn, and wipe most of THAT civ out. Now around two thirds of their culture is foreign, and more rebels spawn. Eventually you get a bunch of 2 or 3 city 'city-state civilizations', with much in-fighting, and suppressing of MORE rebels. This 'Chaotic Zone' is self-replicating, the problem just gets worse and worse, the longer it is left.
Example: The Zulu/English/Viking/Byzantine/Whatever the Incan Rebels are/Holy Roman area that has, in many tiles, no less than 6 different civilizations all having varying levels of culture in them. And all of the above civs have no more than 3 cities (the English MAY have 4, but one doesn't count, on account of it being a desert + Coast + 1 fish city.) I have a hunch that what used to be Dutch land, and isn't Chinese after the world war, will become a 5 or 6 way fight between China, the Dutch, The Spanish, The Mongolians, and 1 or 2 rebel empires (Japan, and some other civ). And if I ever want the Babylonians to become a chaotic area, they can. In the AI Autoplay game I played, China declared War on the Babylonians, and RIPPED them to peaces. The Babylonian cities were split between no less than 7, thats right, 7 civilizations. 2 of whom were rebels!!

'World-Wide stupifying': This is only a theoretical concept, and relies on ALOT of time, and no strong 'stable' civ. However, given enough time, and given that the only victory condition is either Space Race or Domination/Conquest, this is potentially VERY possible.

Imagine that a SIGNIFICANT chunk of the world is 'Chaotic'. Then, if a foreign 'stable' civ over-expands into taking over these rival city-states, then they would also get MAJOR stability problems. If these aren't appropriately addressed, then that 'Stable' civ could be locked in a Death Spiral. From that, more of the world is 'Chaotic'. Again, another self-replicating problem, but this one is much slower, but it is potentially DAMAGING.

Now, remember that when a rebel empire spawns, it LOSES techs, but exchanges that for power. Now, in theory, if the ENTIRE WORLD was a 'chaotic zone', and all 34 civs were allowed, and each have 2 or 3 cities, then in theory, technology could slowly, but surely, go BACKWARDS, until all that is left is a bunch of technologically backward Middle Age civs, around the 23rd century.

This is all speculation, but its interesting speculation, right??

 

[jkp1187]

Now, a few comments about the mod in general.

Its a great mod. Big ups to everyone involved, and it is awesome. A few tweaks I am suggesting (as the game draws to a slow and powerful finale I may add more, but ATM its not that bad)

Thanks!

#1: Have you considered nerfing Mind Control Centers. I am not 100% sure on how expensive they are to build, but -15% <img src="http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/civ4/hammer.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Hammers" smilieid="164" class="inlineimg" /> is NOTHING considering the possibilities having NO UNHAPPINESS can cause. For example:

A) Running an Agrian Economy, and low on production anyway? Re-introduce slavery. Even the slaves will LOVE being tortured by the whip

B) Need Culture ASAP? Or have the Statue of Liberty, and want to run a SE again, just for kicks and giggles? Caste System is for you.

C) WW a problem? Don't worry, the Mind Control center will allow you to maintain Universal Suffrage (or maybe Representation, with Caste System) while still having 30 WW in each size 10 city. As long as a spy doesn't blow it up.

Yes, I have. To be honest, these were left as-is because my thought process was: if I'm going to change something, I have to make a complete change, no half-measures. And in order to fix Mind Control Centers, I will have to do some serious work. (Also, I was reluctant to change the building because it was adjusted in the last official Firaxis patch to what it is now...which implied to me that the powers that be left it that way for a reason.....) Since I was trying to leave things as unchanged as possible, I decided not to toy with it.

But I think you're right -- and not only do I want to address the problem you describe, but I also want to change the building so that it performs as the Civilopedia text describes (if an MCC is lost, people become incredibly unhappy). This will take some Python (and perhaps C++) programming, so it'll take me a while, unfortunately.

The MCC basically is a retread of the Punishment Spheres from Alpha Centauri. IIRC, those gave a 50% penalty to science. Perhaps a 50% penalty to production? Perhaps science and commerce, too?

#2: Recycling Centers NEEDED to be nerfed, but what you did was CRAZY. For the SAME PRICE as an old Center, you now gain only 1 health, and 1 happy, whereas you USED to get up to, and beyond, 5 health. Make it 3 health (like an expensive, but happy inducing hospital), or reduce the price to around 70% of that of an Aqueduct.

This is not correct. The cost of a Recycling Center has ALSO been reduced 50% versus its original cost. So you get less benefit out of the RC, but it also costs less.

The RC served a purpose in vanilla Civ because it was available only in the very late stages of the game, and as such it was probably just a way to squeeze some more points for population out of a civ while waiting for the spaceship to reach Alpha Centauri. But Next War has the potential to last far longer than the vanilla game, and it already provides TONS of buildings that provide extra help. So I felt that the RC was largely redundant. I wanted the arcologies to be the most effective way to increase health in the end game, and leaving RCs as-is (or even, as you suggest, giving it as much health as a hospital or aqueduct,) actually puts it in the same league as the Arcology, which reduces the value of the Arcology.

In addition: The RCs as they were originally (or even as you suggest, with the +3 health) basically eliminate the need to choose between the power-plants. As long as RCs are going to be available soon, build coal plants all the way, then build RCs to pick up the health slack. No need to choose whether or not to take the risk and build nuclear, no need to wait until hydro plants are available, there's only one choice and it's coal.

Finally, there weren't any buildings in the late game that added happiness. I looked around and RCs were the only building that seemed a good candidate (some people do get a buzz off of recycling....and, in some cases, they value the act itself regardless of the environmental costs that recycling may incur. Call it my own social commentary -- hey, isn't that what science fiction is supposed to be about? )

There are new sounds for these techs, and (sorry man, but the truth needs to be told) these voices have the same problem as Sid's tech quotes have. They are FAR too expressive. Even though I have only got one tech quote so far, the fact that the speaker over-emphasized "sure" in that quote was just cringe-inducing.

That said, the voice is slightly lower than Sids. Thats a good thing, at least, and at least my brains aren't leaking out my ears However, less expression would be a good thing. I can't possibly imagine Dexter Ambrose (if he existed), finding his own comment amusing. A sombre voice would be MUCH better, or even one where the word 'sure' is less emphasized. All in all, 5/10 for the voice. Nothing to bee-line for, unless, like me, you are running an Agrian Economy.

Points taken. Actually, I hated the voice over that I did for Hydroponics. If I get time I might re-do it. (Also, I think--hope!--you'll find some of the others a little better.)

#3: The AI is a little bad at maintaining stability. Now, some civs in this game, are REALLY stable (The Dutch, The Chinese, the Babylonians, and the Egyptians are all good examples), HOWEVER once they get a small problem, the problem sky-rockets out of control. They get locked in a death spiral, where the revolutionaries cut off happiness, and health resources, destroy large garrisons, and generally reduce the stability of these already weak cities. Also, the default period of revolt further reduces stability, and this means that a revolution can destroy an entire civilization (Remember Persia?)

These are interesting ideas, and unfortunately, well beyond my ability to implement at this time. I will forward these on to jdog (the author of the REVOLUTION mod,) however, and see what he says.

 

[digitCruncher]

Well... we will see if the sounds improve (and, considering that Sids worst voice, IMO, was Aesthetics, it seems as if the worst quote is always the first )

I'm focusing on getting Cold Fusion at the moment. I REALLY want Titans

Interesting point for the day: Its 2011. And no-one, but the Persians, know how to make a plane fly. No-one. I know this because the Internet isn't picking up those techs yet... But two (weak) civs are attempting it. Its just gonna take ... ooo ... ~25~50 turns

Also, you make good points on the MCC. I wouldn't do anything TOO drastic... however maybe if you could make it so that a global shift to MCC's would be too difficult? -50% commerce would be DEVASTATING (however -50% gold / -50% research and -50% espionage would be OK, because of the whole buisiness with percentage modifiers). Maybe just tweak it little by little. Of course, you could just leave it, if you want

Anyway, Recycling centers cost more than a hospital ATM, and do less than an Aqueduct. Given the choice between wasting 5 turns in my major production city (thats nearly half the price of a wonder!! I didn't know that Centers were THAT expensive), for 1 and 1 , I would never use them...

Even Arcologies only JUST negate the problem caused by Industrial Parks (which are required to build them), so there really is no good 'solution' to fix pollution in a commerce city.

I would recommend dropping the price to that at, or around 50% more than, an aqueduct, if you don't want to increase the bonus. (My 70% figure was a little misleading. It should have been "At a price such that the Aqueduct is 70% as expensive as a Recycling center", IE. The Center being 142% the price of an Aqueduct. I recommend 100-150% price)

I will do another update soon.

 

[Brammimond]

Hum... I downloaded the mod, but the game kept kicking me out when I try to start the game... Does anyone knows why this is happening?

I read the mod faq, the readmes and evertything but noone has the same problem than I do.

Mine civ is BTS 1.7 something like that.

No Music

 

[digitCruncher]

1.7?? Huh??

Thats possibly the problem.

This mod runs on having the 3.13 patch, AND Bhruics un-official patch. Not having those is likely to make the mod not work correctly.

 

[jkp1187]

Actually, NextWar Revolutions incorporates Bhruic's patch.... so even if you are not using Bhruic's patch in your everyday game, you're automatically getting it by playing NextWar Revolutions
It DOES require that you have the latest official patch (3.13)....so make sure that you have a fully updated version of BtS. If that doesn't work, try downloading and re-installing NextWar Revolutions in your &quot;Mods&quot; directory.

 

[jkp1187]

Also, you make good points on the MCC. I wouldn't do anything TOO drastic... however maybe if you could make it so that a global shift to MCC's would be too difficult? -50% commerce would be DEVASTATING (however -50% gold / -50% research and -50% espionage would be OK, because of the whole buisiness with percentage modifiers). Maybe just tweak it little by little. Of course, you could just leave it, if you want

If I tweak it little by little...are you going to be able to play test it?

Anyway, Recycling centers cost more than a hospital ATM, and do less than an Aqueduct. Given the choice between wasting 5 turns in my major production city (thats nearly half the price of a wonder!! I didn't know that Centers were THAT expensive)

Recycling Centers in NW:R are 150 hammers...Hospitals are 200h, Aqueducts 100h. (The cost for RC's in "vanilla" BtS is 300 hammers.) Consider: 1.) RC's provide both one health and one happiness (meaning that the extra population point comes without having to worry about making that extra population happy). 2.) RC's come late in the game, when the successful player is going to be awash in hammers anyway, either from Creative Constructions, Mining, Inc., or State Property. 3.) RC's arrive at a time when the only other health-producing buildings are the rather expensive Arcology line. (Which, again, provide only health, no happiness.) Given all that, I think that the modified RC is a good balance as is.

Even Arcologies only JUST negate the problem caused by Industrial Parks (which are required to build them), so there really is no good 'solution' to fix pollution in a commerce city.

Well, Arcologies provide +3 health, Industrial Parks give 2 unhealthiness, so it's still a net +1 health gain. But the Arcologies also open up the path to construct two more advanced arcology buildings which both provide health bonuses (in addition to defensive benefits). And I don't think there SHOULD be a complete fix for pollution. Everything comes at a cost. In economic terms, the marginal cost for each additional point of healthiness should get higher and higher. You want those high-production factories and coal plants and industrial parks? It'll come at a cost in terms of unhealthiness. In short, I want the player to have to choose: he can go the Industrial Park - Arcology - Shielding - Advanced Shielding path and spend a LOT of hammers (but at the same time gaining other advantages), or avoid it and put his hammers into something else. I don't want the RC's to compete with the Arcologies. Basically, to make it equivalent to hospitals, the RC would be an incredible bargain in terms of health, and that would make the choice a little too easy -- always build RCs, rarely build arcologies. I want the player to WANT to build the arcologies if possible. Again thanks for all your feedback, and please let me know more as it occurs to you! (And also thanks for mentioning me in the same breath as Sid Meier... )

 

[Brammimond]

Its because I got the expansion just recently. I guess I have to press the Update buttom more frequently, hehehehehehe.

Anyway, normally the expansion doesnt add things that i enjoy. But I want to play this mod really bad, so I guess there is no problem updating^^

Thx for the tip...

Cascade - Sexy Sexy

 

[digitCruncher]

KK, the last two posts. If you want to finish the game, you are welcome, but I can't be stuffed finishing it -.-

The war to end all wars​

July 2016: Madrid, the Dutch capital, falls. This is the last bit of combat. It's just so ridiculous. I don't know why the swordsmen just didn't give up...



July 2016: And I keep it, for this reason. Even until the very end-game, nearly 50 years from now, it never gets to get a citizen working a tile. Quite pathetic. But worth it for >50~200 gold per turn



July 2016: Peace started, and I got a city (the Half-dutch / Half-Incan city, which is useless) and a bit of gold. There was a reason why I went to peace so quickly, especially with such a pathetic amount of gain...




January 2017: A revolution is brewing, and Khmer rebels will pop up next turn. I underestimated their strength...



January 2017: Grab two Babylonian cities. Again, it classifies it as a 'lost' city, and thus my empire was suffering in stability because of it.



January 2021: The Khmer popped up, and made a good fight. I underestimated them, thinking that they would use tanks and infantry. They actually use Modern Armor, Infantry, Marines, and Anti-tanks.

Anyway, they want these cities. Then they will get ripped apart by the Dutch hyper-culture. Then they will give up their independence and join the Dutch empire. And then the Dutch will have their Legendary cities back... not good.



July 2021: I grab flight from the internet. The Babylonians and the Persians give it to me...



January 2022: Give the city I got for Peace with the Dutch (Machu Piccu) to the Incans. They get happy with me



January 2023: The Vikings are now stable!! Rock-solid, and not likely to split up. In fact, in the late game, the general stability of all cities actually INCREASES, and the number of revolutions drop from 3~4 a turn to 2 every 4 turns or so. Thus my theory of world-wide stupefying was obviously wrong. Unless, of course, there is a GIANT world war, with at least 100~200 nukes, causing mass starvation across the world, simultaneously giving MASSIVE starvation instability hits...



January 2024: Grab fission from the internet. I THINK this was Babylon + Netherlands, but it could also be the Ottomans, or someone with high espionage...



January 2026: The Khmer get a HUGE interstate system, which is the envy of the world. If it existed -.- (The Khmer have no cities )



January 2037: I had a golden age, switched in and out of Universal Suffarage to gold-buy some culture buildings in the recently captured Dutch cities (the Khmer spies keep destroying them -.-) but just as I get back into beurocracy for some serious teching... the Germans declare war.

I see a GIANT stack. 10 Panzers, some 15~20 infantry, and some 6 Artillery. I can't counter attack, as the Dutch (where the German attack is coming from) won't open borders, so attacking thier troops will declare war -.- I know that I will die in this one battle, but hopefully the German losses will be heavy...

July 2037: Forgot to take a screeny... but man was that battle INTENSE. 40 battles later... and I lost.... nothing. Nada. Zip. The lossless battle was won by ALOT of luck, the fact that the collateral damage all hit the weak units mostly, and the Modern Armors and the CGIII Mobile Infantry went out almost unscathed. Then they attacked wrong, attacking with Panzers first, then infantry (going the other way around would mean that the Panzers would kill the Modern Armors, not try and kill the Infantry). From the HUGE win, I grab some super-units, including a Drill IV, CG II unit, and a Drill III, CG III unit.



July 2037: A useful event... if only I had 200 gold more. Don't you hate it when that happens? Since Pavilions are in EVER city, that would have gave AT LEAST another 8 beakers ... times 20~30 cities... another 240~320 beakers PER TURN. Instead, I settle for just 8. Dang.

 

[digitCruncher]

Victory (sorta)​

January 2038: The space elevator is built. And thus the last condition for my victory is set. I have built a wonder from each era. Now all I need to do is build a spaceship, and I am set



January 2038: The Germans do ANOTHER suicide attack... to the SAME CITY. ALL of these infantry, and calvalry (unless stated otherwise) were killed by my two super units (CG III Drill III Mech Infantry, and CG II, Drill IV Mech Infantry)

The modern armor was a Combat III, Pinch, Blitz Modern Armor.



July 2040: OK, the mind control center is very expensive, so global mind control won't work, unless you are a VERY small civ. However, it does have its uses... for example, I forgot to garrison these troops back when I used a GG to lead a second Titan, in the war against the German. Normally, I would have 24 unhappyness, or something insane, but the Mind control center saved me!!



January 2041: There were two mighty Titans in the great Chinese empire. The first was a strong one, Combat IV, Morale, Tactics and blitz. This one was the Titan to end everything, so it was dubbed: "The apocolypse". The second Titan was a weaker one, with only Blitz, but it was expected to grow in power after its master: "The apocolyse" was finished fighting the Germans.

The Apocolypse was fighting a general battle vs. a CG II Infantry. Nothing spectacular. The defences had already been reduced to rubble, and thus nothing could defeat it. Combined, it had 99.2% of victory, 0.7% withdrawl. And thus, it couldn't lose.

But it did -.-. And I lost a GG Titan in the fourth battle it fought. The other Titan grew strong, however, and fought many more wars.



January 2043: Kublia Khan breaks free, but doesn't want to be my vassal. He later Vassalises to GIGLAMESH (Yes, the very same, the Zulu rebels -.-) what a low point in that empires history...



January 2044: I cure cancer!! That is a great event, giving me +1 health in practically every city, and in addition, +1 relations with all civs.



January 2045: This bug is a little interesting. It seems if a Mobile SAM engages in war, a GIANT (and I mean GIANT, it takes up the best part of 9 tiles!!) Assault Mech is on either side. If an Assault Mech attacks, another one is on its back (a spare??), and the most amusing, but sadly missed out in this screeny, it looks better while moving, whenever a fighter does a intercept mission, and you control an Assault Mech nearby, another Assault Mech pops up UNDERNEATH the wings, of this TINY prop plane, and slowly rotates underneath it. Its insane, and very funny!!



July 2047: The Incans declared war last year, and I razed the last Holy Roman city, ending a war that had raged, in my heart when it wasn't on the field, for the best part of 4 millenia.

The two flag poles are Assault Mechs, both which used Ranged Attack to damage the units, before I went in for the kill. Thier images are rotating slowly around my horses city...



July 2051: Devastation abounds the Incan empire. I have already razed two cities, the Russians have captured two, and the Portuguese have captured another. They have 6 cities left, and I still can destroy two more (and the Russians grab one more!!)

Anyway, the Russians finally win thier crusade (what do they get for that??), and I have to defend against more Mechanized infantry. Fun.




January 2052: The Roman empire rises up, in the old German cities, and trys to retake their old cities. Will they capture them before I build the spaceship and win? I don't know. Personally, I don't care. I have won. I don't care if your little rebellion kills my colony. I will be on Mars when that happens...

July 2053: This war is slowing me down, so I force capitulation. Another +1 happy for me...

If anyone want to play the game, here is the save. I have all but won, and all you need to do is wait some 30 turns before you win a space-race victory. Since the Manhatten project hasn't been built (and if it has, I am the only one with the SDI production possibility, and also have immunity of nukes through the combined power of the Deflector sheilding and Bomb shelters), even an all-out nuclear war cannot kill me. Unless it happens to destabilizes my entire empire. Which is unlikely, in 30 turns

Summary of the game, and the mod, comes next.

 

[digitCruncher]

Teh big Summary​

I hope you had as much fun reading it, as I had playing it. At times it was tough, but it was worth it in the end.

A few things I learnt:

#1: You don't need to win every battle, even losing an 'important' battle is workable, as long as you do EVERYTHING to recover quickly. Having a vassal as a buffer to slow the advance is also good

#2: Pillaging is a nice way to prolong a war that is going on for longer than you thought it would go on for. The extra gold will pay for support, and keeping a route that goes through the enemy towns will pay for the unit support as well!!

#3: If you have no military, build mounted / armored units, and try to take our the enemy raiding parties. If you do it right, then you should cause MASSIVE War Weariness.

#4: Early/Mid game wonders are invariantly weaker than late game wonders. Thus, although you can easily go through life without many mid game wonders, you CAN'T go without any late game wonders and win, if you expect to win a space race, and you don't have an insane tech lead BEFORE the modern era. Just to compare:

Eiffel Tower: Provides Broadcast towers (+50% culture, 2 artists) in every city
StoneHenge: Provides Monuments (+2 culture) in every city

Hollywood/Broadway/Rock and Roll: Provides a resource that you can trade for practically everything, as well as providing +1 happy in every city (+2 with towers)
Notre Dame: +1 happy in every city in the continent.

Hoover Dam: Effectively +50% production in every developed city
Parthenon: +50% GP points, in every (??) city.

So having very few wonders in the early game isn't a bad thing. A few wonders are EXTREMELY powerful in certain circumstances, but most are rather meh wonders.

#5: The AI does get WW. It isn't capped, but it is reduced by 50%, apparently.

#6: Small civs have big hearts. Small civs SEEM to build un-naturally large armies (both Portugal and Russia had 2 >20 unit stacks. This was about the same size as the Dutch army!!)

#7: If left unmanaged, rebels WILL destroy your empire. But chuck 10 units garrisoning rebelling cities, and the rebellion won't spread beyond the 2/4 cities nearby.

#8: You know you have won when you build observatories in your production city with no cottages, windmills, or watermills in the BFC.

#9: Cyborgs and Automatons are cheap. REALLY cheap. And also get stuff-all promotions

A few things BAD about the mod:

#1: Occasionally an AI will let a rebel army stomp all over it.

#2: The Internet is too powerful. Ditto with most modern wonders, they need to obsolete in the very late game (Cybernetics could obsolete the Hollywood/Broadway/Rock and Roll maybe, as the people can get that sort of stuff downloaded into thier minds?? And maybe the Three Gorges Dam can obsolete with Cold Fusion, and Cold Fusion give power to everything in the empire? I will leave the details to you)

#3: Late-game wonders, if at all possible, would be nice. Maybe 1 or 2 REALLY expensive wonders, which give a MASSIVE boost to the empire? Of course, that is potentially game-breaking, and thus I won't SERIOUSLY push for it. But it would gain a bit of flavor

#4: Could you double-check that the AI actually would build the Manhatten Project? It was unbuilt in 2060...

A few good things about the mod:

#1: It gives an unrivaled depth to the game. If you like Ryse and Fall, then you will LOVE this. If you hate Ryse and Fall (like me), you will still love it, considering that you hate Ryse for this reason: Its too hard to hold an empire together, or rather, all the reasons are not given. However, in this mod, all the reasons WHY your empire is self-destructing are given, so you can fix them.

#2: The Next-War part is VERY fun. Added techs, with a Space-race victory moved back, and no annoying duplicate civs (Egypt + Southern Empire etc.) make it a nice mod on its own.

#3: The City-State idea is also awesome. It makes civs that spawn from barbs automatically hated by the 'real' civs, but not too much that they never can survive (just look at Egypt. Seriously, look at that giant super-power. It OWNS the New World, and the little colonies couldn't possibly withstand its might). It also gives plenty of warning (Remember Korea? Which survived for like 5 turns? And Rome?)

#4: The depth of this game is demonstrated by the many possible points of conversation that can spot up. Also, it would be AMAZING to see an entire world simultaneously de-stabilize, into thousands of little city-states, due to a MASSIVE nuclear war... I should do that sometime, if someone doesn't beat me to it... you don't get that in any other mod.

#5: Its free, and a POWERFUL addition to the game. If Civ V was like this mod, with a few MINOR balance tweaks (but IMO everything is reasonably balanced as is, with MAYBE the exception of Recycling Centers, which I only built in one city, as I needed the +1 to prevent starvation), I would pay through the nose to get it

Strongly reccomended.

But wait, I never finished the game!! What would I do NEXT!?

Step 1: Finish construction of the SS
Step 2: Grab my 4 Assault Mechs, and 2 Titans (plus a bunch of Automatons, and a healing Mech infantry or 2), and go to war with the Dutch.
Step 3: Capitulate the Dutch, and go for the Spanish
Step 4: Capitulate the Spanish, and go for the Babylonians, and thus, have no friends whatsoever on the map
Step 5: Build Manhattan Project, and nuke everything, and let the world starve.
Step 6: Move to Mars as the Earth turns into a dry desert world, and civilizations crumble.
Step 7: Win. Approximately 2065 AD.

Now: Questions? Comments?

I WILL play test the next version of this mod (please PM me when it comes out). I will also play test any mod that gets me interested. Be careful, if you don't live up to the expectations I get, then I WILL put down your mod. However, if it is a great mod (like this jewel of a mod), then I will promote it as much as possible, and show others how good your mod is.

PM me to play-test your mod.

Umm... but the next game PROBABLY will be a 5-player game, with the condition that I CANNOT enter the renaissance, to force me to win a VERY early game... as I am tired of winning via space-race. Diplo win will also be enabled, and I will have to think of a good civ to play as (since its a small map, and I want a domination/conquest win, I will definitely need Aggressive or Charismatic. I will probably go with a Charismatic leader (as I like the +1 , as well as the cheap cheap cheap promotions), and probably a creative leader too, as the extra culture will allow my captured cities to work some tiles... Who is Charismatic/Creative??) Alternatively, I could use the Viking Berserks, as amphibious attacks will be necessary on continents (which I will play as)

 

[jkp1187]

January 2026: The Khmer get a HUGE interstate system, which is the envy of the world. If it existed -.- (The Khmer have no cities )

Hmm. This is interesting. This glitch must exist in the main game, too, because I didn't alter the "INTERSTATE" event in any way. I'll have to fix this so it checks to make sure that the triggering civ actually has at least one city (and, preferably, a road!) This should probably be fixed by Firaxis as well because it could theoretically be triggered by a civ that's lost all its cities when playing under the optional "require complete kills" rule.

It seems if a Mobile SAM engages in war, a GIANT (and I mean GIANT, it takes up the best part of 9 tiles!!) Assault Mech is on either side. If an Assault Mech attacks, another one is on its back (a spare??), and the most amusing, but sadly missed out in this screeny, it looks better while moving, whenever a fighter does a intercept mission, and you control an Assault Mech nearby, another Assault Mech pops up UNDERNEATH the wings, of this TINY prop plane, and slowly rotates underneath it. Its insane, and very funny!!

Yeah, this graphics glitch occurs in the original Next War. I've advised Firaxis, hopefully it will get fixed whenever the next official patch is released. I've found that you can avoid the "disappearing/reappearing" Assault Mech if you switch up to play on Medium or High graphics.

2: The Internet is too powerful. Ditto with most modern wonders, they need to obsolete in the very late game (Cybernetics could obsolete the Hollywood/Broadway/Rock and Roll maybe, as the people can get that sort of stuff downloaded into thier minds?? And maybe the Three Gorges Dam can obsolete with Cold Fusion, and Cold Fusion give power to everything in the empire? I will leave the details to you)

Interesting thoughts here, especially with regard to the Internet. I agree: something will have to be done about that project. I'm reluctant to mess around with Hollywood/Rock/Broadway, just because they are a staple of any good culture victory, and I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of the luxury "resources" they generate. But I definitely want to do something with Cold Fusion. Free electricity to all cities is overpowered, but I definitely see possibilities for a new power plant there. (I also want to re-name it, as Cold Fusion in real life, as far as I've been able to tell, is just a load of pseudo-science.)

#4: Could you double-check that the AI actually would build the Manhatten Project? It was unbuilt in 2060...

I have seen the AI construct it before, but usually only by the really aggressive leaders, if they have the tech (Genghis Khan, Monty, Catherine.)

Cyborgs and Automatons are cheap. REALLY cheap. And also get stuff-all promotions

They don't get all the promotions. They can get the standard combat promotions and the anti-biological warfare promotion, but not (for instance) the drill line nor things like amphibious warfare.

#5: The AI does get WW. It isn't capped, but it is reduced by 50%, apparently.

Yes. There is a very detailed explanation of WW in the Strategy Articles forum.

Thanks again for all of your feedback! This is incredibly helpful for me. Hopefully I can scrape up some free time and play around with this mod a little -- at the very least, tweak the numbers for things like culture growth and things -- and set you loose on it again.

 

[digitCruncher]

The interstate glitch is honestly a very tiny one, and doesn't REALLY matter

Hollywood/Rock/Broadway need only obsolete in the EXTREME late-game, but since most of its power (like the Internet) is offset by the fact that it comes so LATE in the normal game (Radio is 3 or 4 techs away from Future tech...), by adding more techs at the end, you make those wonders MUCH stronger.

If you like, you could imagine them obsoleting in the Future era (but that would make them too short-lived to be useful sadly)

Although free power IS powerful, so is the Three Gorges Dam, and thus the modern wonders are REALLY over-powered in this game. I would just reccomend that you nerf them somewhat, as thier lifespan is nearly tripled in this mod, thus making them more than 3 times as powerful as the regular BtS

The Manhatten project is understandable. Last time the Dutch built it (on AI Autoplay), but this time the Dutch were too weak to build it. The other aggresive civs didn't, as they didn't have the tech, and Hammurabi II was the only person who likely would build it (or MAYBE Hatty... but she is slightly behind in techs anyway...)

Re: Clone units: I know that they got less promotions, but they (as my understanding anyway) get only these promotions:

Combat 1-5, CG 1-3, Nanoids.

Nanoids makes it all worthwhile, IF I COULD GET THAT FAR (My clones never saw combat ). As nanoids aren't available for regular units, and since it gives such a HUGE bonus (+20%/30%/40% healing in enemy/neutral/allied lands), I think they are balanced. Its just a shock to see only 2 eligable promotions at a time

Re: WW. I read that, and didn't believe it, as Monty constantly sent stack after stack after stack to me, and I cut them all down. Eventually I spied the civ and saw that each city had 2 WW for each 8 population (comes before Police State, Jails and Mt. Rushmore, so that was the base rate). Killing the 72-person SoD was devastating, obviously Nonetheless I killed 100+ units from Monty and still had that low level of WW... But now I know that that was an unusual set of circumstances...

Great game!!