Nitpicking

[smjjames]

Well the meat flail works from a thematic standpoint in making the Doviello look as barbaric as possible

Remember the humans of Erebus aren't quite the same as ours. They are descendants of Nemed, the original God of Life. They have been known to evolve into many forms due to contact with the other gods. Contact with Sucellus turned men into elves, and with Danalin turned them into water-breathing Aifons. Their ties to their gods often have a physical effect, for instance, look at how quickly men (and probably some dwarves and elves) turned into Orks(/Ogres/Goblins/Lizardmen). The Doviello are Camulos's people, so their tie to him may have made them grow bigger and more warlike. It is also possible that other men too used to be bigger, but diminished in the harsh conditions of the Age of Ice. The fact that Orks too are larger than men in Erebus (the opposite was true in Arda) may imply that men were of their stature before Bhall's fall.

okay, then explain normal men shrinking during the age of ice if they and orcs were the same height before the age of ice. Of course though, the whole process of twisting them could have made them bigger as well, so they could have been normal sized men but got mutated or whatever when Bhall fell. Also, what do you mean Arda? is that another D&D world?

I believe it has been said that the inner sanctum of the Halls of Sabathiel are not in this dimension. It may be that the High Priests literally leave creation in order to talk to him.

He would still have to place the portal to his dimensional pocket in Erebus, or it's maybe a sort of small personal dimension that acts as his home. Even an archangel of the god of Law is probably entitled to a few perks.

Anyways, here's a little bit of nitpicking of my own.

It's kind of odd that gunpowder is in a magic based fantasty world, although it wouldn't take a stretch of the imagination to think of some inventor mage using magic somehow to create a cannon or a primitive gun. After all, they already sling fireballs around. I guess it could be inevitable for them to eventually develop cannons and guns and the like.

And another nitpick: can you guys somehow activate that graph which shows the power, score, and other stuff over time. I find it really useful and I kind of miss using it.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah, Orks and Doviello could have grown in the Age of Ice instead of men growing. It is however know that men in the age of ice (and beyond) had much shorter lifespans and less magical ability than their ancestors in ages past. They could have diminished in other ways too.



Arda is the proper term for J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle Earth. (I thought it just referred to the continent of middle earth, but wikipedia seems to say it is the whole planet, plus nearby celestial objestc like the sun and moon. However, it is still just a small part of Ea, "the world that is," i.e., the universe)


Also, Gunpowder was used in the Lord of the Rings, although only by those working for Sauruman.

 

[xienwolf]

I tried to create a dummy check for the Espionage system to always think you are allowed to see the Diplomacy screen. But either that isn't the power graphs, or I need to dig a bit deeper in the code because it isn't getting to the point of asking if you are allowed to see it or not. Since I wasn't even sure the Diplomacy Screen was the same as the Power Graph, I didn't work on it for too long beyond the initial "Is it simple?" check.


If anyone knows precisely what that screen is called, or really any of the functions involved in setting it up, I can look into it more sometime.

 

[smjjames]

I only saw the first LoTR movie, so I wouldn't really know about that. It would still have been inevitable one way or another.

 

[Breunor]

Breunor that is a very good account you have given.

A close friend of mine (from University years) is pretty much an expert on the Peloponnesian War, so I admire your reference on the subject

You make a good point about hardness of substances.

If substances were rated purely on "hardness" then diamond would make the perfect substance of war. However, despite the hardness, diamond armour or weapons would shatter with ease when utilised against (for eg) steel.

The same goes for bronze verses worked iron. My good (PhD level) metallurgist friend seems to be 100% convinced that taking an iron weapon against a bronze weapon would result in the shattering of the latter.

Also, it is well known that bronze will not keep an edge beyond the first limb or so that you manage to chop off (becoming pretty blunt for the rest of the fight). Although all weapons lose their edge over time (with lack of sharpening), iron weapons are quite likely to keep it for the duration of a fight before its owner need attend to it

Thanks for your intelligent contribution Breunor

Al

Thanks Alzara, I'm glad I could add something to the discussion.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[evanb]

Saverous is described as being something on the order of nine feet tall. People with Giantism usually have their upper bodies break their legs, or very least ankles, when they hit around eight feet or even less. Someone that tall should have trouble standing, let alone becoming a warrior of great fame.

Possible explanation: different gravity on Erebus? Plus, the pedia says he was possessed by a demon and had runes inscribed onto him to increase his strength.

edit: oh, and Saverous was originally a Doviello

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It could also be that the people of Erebus have unusually small feet

 

[Breunor]

Yeah, Orks and Doviello could have grown in the Age of Ice instead of men growing. It is however know that men in the age of ice (and beyond) had much shorter lifespans and less magical ability than their ancestors in ages past. They could have diminished in other ways too.



Arda is the proper term for J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle Earth. (I thought it just referred to the continent of middle earth, but wikipedia seems to say it is the whole planet, plus nearby celestial objestc like the sun and moon. However, it is still just a small part of Ea, "the world that is," i.e., the universe)


Also, Gunpowder was used in the Lord of the Rings, although only by those working for Sauruman.

Sorry Magister, not sure I agree here. I haven't read the trilogy and the Silmarillion in a long time, since before you were born, so maybe I'm getting senile ...


IIRC, Arda is a lot more than Middle-earth, and is pretty much the whole planet during the time of the War of the Ring and was a different, pretty much larger creation before, which was then broken in the War with Melkor. The Ainur creation was 'Ea', and 'Arda' was a large part, and originally other bodies like the sun. At creation, Arda was flat and had eternal light. In pretty much any definition, Aman is part of Arda as are the lands to the south and west of Middle earth. For instance, the waking spot of the elves is to the far west but is part of Arda.

As far as Saruman's troops using gunpowder, I have to admit I don't remember this. When did this occur?

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Wyrmhero]

As far as Saruman's troops using gunpowder, I have to admit I don't remember this. When did this occur?

IIRC, Saruman's Uruk-Hai used them to blow apart the defences in Helm's Deep in The Two Towers.

 

[Alzara]

Saruman used gunpowder in the film, but not in the books. He basically used long range fireballs to blast the walls of Minas Tirith.

Still, I thought the suicide bomber Orc was kinda cool

Al

 

[Breunor]

IIRC, Saruman's Uruk-Hai used them to blow apart the defences in Helm's Deep in The Two Towers.

Sorry guys, I think when we talk about what happened in LOTR we really should take what Tolkien wrote as what 'happened', not what a movie director put in! Similarly, the events in 'I Claudius' are NOT a good source of Roman history!

For example, in the move Jackson had Helm's Deep defended partly by a large contingent of Elves! This is just plain wrong, and indeed goes against a key theme of Tolkien's' that the Elves, despite their power were totally ineffective. See Tolkien's letter in the Unfinished Tales on this point. (I think it was the Unfinished Tales but I may be mixing it up with other HME books.)

In the books, I'm pretty sure they say that Saruman's troops used a 'devilish device' or something like that to break through at Helm's Deep, so Jackson's use of a gunpowder weapon is probably as good as anything; but I think it is wrong to say that gunpowder was available in an LOTR setting.


This may be a generational thing -- fantasy fans from my era are pretty good and fanatical about their Tolkien stuff. Nowadays, we have a lot of great fantasy in a bookstore -- we have Moorcock, Donaldson, Brooks, Jordon, Goodkind, a slew of Forgotton Realms stuff (Salvatore), Eddings, Zelazny, Anthony, Bradley, Norton, Lieber, Martin, Stewart, etc. In my generation, we pretty much had Tolkien and Mervyn Peake and some of the real old time stuff (Lovecraft, Howard, Derleth, Smith) which could be hard to find; that was it. So, please forgive me if I'm disparaging toward changes introduced in the movies -- I thought the movies were excellent. And I thought I Claudius was excellent. But to me they aren't the real LOTR or real Roman History.

And I'm with Alzara -- the suicide orc WAS cool!

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Wyrmhero]

Sorry guys, I think when we talk about what happened in LOTR we really should take what Tolkien wrote as what 'happened', not what a movie director put in! Similarly, the events in 'I Claudius' are NOT a good source of Roman history!

For example, in the move Jackson had Helm's Deep defended partly by a large contingent of Elves! This is just plain wrong, and indeed goes against a key theme of Tolkien's' that the Elves, despite their power were totally ineffective. See Tolkien's letter in the Unfinished Tales on this point. (I think it was the Unfinished Tales but I may be mixing it up with other HME books.)

In the books, I'm pretty sure they say that Saruman's troops used a 'devilish device' or something like that to break through at Helm's Deep, so Jackson's use of a gunpowder weapon is probably as good as anything; but I think it is wrong to say that gunpowder was available in an LOTR setting.


This may be a generational thing -- fantasy fans from my era are pretty good and fanatical about their Tolkien stuff. Nowadays, we have a lot of great fantasy in a bookstore -- we have Moorcock, Donaldson, Brooks, Jordon, Goodkind, a slew of Forgotton Realms stuff (Salvatore), Eddings, Zelazny, Anthony, Bradley, Norton, Lieber, Martin, Stewart, etc. In my generation, we pretty much had Tolkien and Mervyn Peake and some of the real old time stuff (Lovecraft, Howard, Derleth, Smith) which could be hard to find; that was it. So, please forgive me if I'm disparaging toward changes introduced in the movies -- I thought the movies were excellent. And I thought I Claudius was excellent. But to me they aren't the real LOTR or real Roman History.

And I'm with Alzara -- the suicide orc WAS cool!

Best wishes,

Breunor

I definately remember 'sorcery from Isengard' in the books, and I remember nice explosion effects in the audio version of the books, so I may have got the two confused. :shrugs: It happens.

 

[WCH]

Gunpowder is sorcery. Seriously. A wizard mixes some things together, sets a spark and there's an explosion. Magic.

People tend to think of things as nonmagical when they discover it's actually possible, because magic has been defined as "impossible stuff." Just because you can do it too doesn't mean it isn't sorcery.

 

[Wyrmhero]

Gunpowder is sorcery. Seriously. A wizard mixes some things together, sets a spark and there's an explosion. Magic.

Isn't that technically alchemy?

 

[Demus]

remember: gunpowder originated from fireworks. The same thing gandalf brought to the hobbits home (both in the books and the movie!). The wheel of time also has gunpowder references, in the name of the fireworkers, later turning bells into makeshift cannons for the final battle against evil.

 

[WCH]

Isn't that technically alchemy?

No. Alchemy is system for personal enlightenment; it was a spiritual/philosophical/psychological movement that got around oppression by writing everything in code. Lead to gold is a metaphor for transformation of the self.

If interested, Carl Jung has some very thorough books on the subject. If you aren't convinced, read some books by actual alchemists and compare their words to what Jung said about them.

Magic, on the other hand, is "the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with Will." (quote is by Aleister Crowley, the occultist that basically all of our western ideas of occult and related magic come from)

 

[Sofista]

I don't know if this is notpicking or a bug/improvement suggestion, but: does someone else think that joining the Over/Undercouncil should also award contact with other members?

 

[Breunor]

I definately remember 'sorcery from Isengard' in the books, and I remember nice explosion effects in the audio version of the books, so I may have got the two confused. :shrugs: It happens.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be overbearing. If you thought it was in the books, cool. Its when people quote movies as their sources that I think it is a little nutty. I've had a lot of arguments with people on these forums over history where the ultimate source I was arguing against was a movie!

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[evanb]

Middle-Earth (Endor in Sindarin), Aman and Harad are continents on Arda, indeed. As well as Cuivienen and Hildorien, where the race of Elves and, respectively, the race of Men awoke.

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/a/arda.html

 

[Wyrmhero]

Sorry, I didn't mean to be overbearing. If you thought it was in the books, cool. Its when people quote movies as their sources that I think it is a little nutty. I've had a lot of arguments with people on these forums over history where the ultimate source I was arguing against was a movie!

Best wishes,

Breunor

Its fine. I know exactly how you feel, and I get irritated by it too.