No angry Swedes, Danes?

[Locutus]

or a blanket term for the Nordic peoples (until Christianization)

While you're mostly right, that's a bit of an oversimplification. We (as historians) do have a somewhat well defined concept of Vikings as a people/culture. One could argue it's a bit contrived and of course the definition is not as razor sharp as that of Americans or Romans, but it doesn't mean simply all pre-Christian Nordic people. The term Vikings as a people refers to a group of similar cultures that existed mostly in the coastal areas of Norway, Sweden and Denmark from the 8th to the 11th century and which from there spread to places like Iceland, Greenland, the British Isles, Normandy and Russia (where they usually intermixed with the locals and were eventually assimilated). The Viking warriors that raided Europe are the most famous aspect of this culture, but in reality trade was the driving force. People who lived in earlier times in Scandinavia can be considered pre-Vikings and there are also plenty of non-Viking people living in the Nordic countries during the Viking Age (most notably of course the Sami). This definition has some problems (which is hardly unique, just ask a Macedonian ) but it's a workable one and the one used for the Vikings in Warlords (e.g. unlike in Civ3 the city list doesn't have pre- or non-Viking cities) -- for the main game that is. The Vikings scenario is clearly based on the more narrow coastal raiders definition.

I remember that in Age of Empires II, for example, they had some cheesy ON speech done.

Then again, the AoE team had a budget that was probably 5-10 times larger than that of Civ4 (not to mention Warlords)...

 

[Carewolf]

I guess one reason no scandinavians is complaining is that the entire Viking civilization is rubbish.

The name, the units, the hats, the capitol, etc. That they speak Norwegian can really only be an insult to Norwegians..

The vikings in Civ is basically a fantasy civilization that makes as much sense as an Atlantis civilizations controlled by leprechauns.

 

[slightlymarxist]

I guess one reason no scandinavians is complaining is that the entire Viking civilization is rubbish.

Absolutely correct. I liked to play and could identify with "Scandinavia" in Civ3, but "Vikings" + Ragnar's helmet mean I'll keep playing as the Germans (or Mongols, heh). Had they called them "Norse" and lost the silly Hagar helmets, I might have considered them. Pity!

 

[hr_oskar]

While you're mostly right, that's a bit of an oversimplification. We (as historians) do have a somewhat well defined concept of Vikings as a people/culture.

Yes, you're right, there were of course people of other ethnicities inhabiting Scandinavia, and "Vikings" outside of Scandinavia as well. I was using "Nordic" there more as a cultural term than geographical, but mostly I just wanted to make my point without getting too pedantic about it

Anyway you guys are right, the discussion is mostly pointless because Firaxis' Vikings are complete fantasy.

 

[Cereal Box]

I'm not expert or anything, but are you guys sure that the language is truely Norwegian and not say, a dialect of Old Norse? I heard once that Icelandic was closest to what Old Norse was. Maybe it's something along those lines? I dunno. Or really care actually since it all sounds the same to me.

 

[Willowmound]

So we do have angry Swedes, Danes!

Just for other reasons. And you are right of course, the Viking civ is pretty heavy on the fantasy elements in this game.

But I'll play them. In my work I deal enough with the real history of Dark and Middle Age Scandinavia to not get rattled or upset by any cartoon variety...

 

[Lars_Domus]

I'm not expert or anything, but are you guys sure that the language is truely Norwegian and not say, a dialect of Old Norse? I heard once that Icelandic was closest to what Old Norse was. Maybe it's something along those lines? I dunno. Or really care actually since it all sounds the same to me.

Yes, it is 100% modern Norwegian.

 

[hest]

As I've posted in a different thread, the helmets suck. And now that you mention it, they could've used Icelandic as the spoken language. Even though it's kind of doubtful to add the Vikings as a civ to in the first place, there are alot of things that they could have done way better. Just by learning from the previous appearance of vikings in the civ-series.

Cowboy hats and Cigarrs for the Americans!

 

[Hristo]

We have so many pretty girls in Sweden/Denmark so we dont have time complaining about these things in a forum

 

[Vraslosken]

I think it sounds more like southern swedish. Extremely bad norwegian anyway.

 

[Willowmound]

It's Norwegian! Selv en bergenser burde greie å høre det

Have a proper listen. You're right it's bad, but the problem isn't so much pronunciation (apart from inconsistent R's), but the writing. It's as though they used Babelfish for his lines. And that's pretty pathetic.

 

[SkippyT]

Well, I'm not angry. I'm quite pissed because, as you said, Norweigan is spoken by the Vikings in the game, which is terribly wrong. We should have taken an Icelander like me and talk for the Vikings.

About the map:
It's extremely wrong not to have Denmark, at least, or Iceland on the map. Denmark, being the major country that made England, en del af Skandinavia.

I think Denmark, Iceland and the Faeroe Islands are missing on the map

I was going to point this out, that the Viking language is Norweigan, but since you did it there's no reason to!

Buuuut...I'm happy about that about 75% of the great people in the Viking mission were Icelandic, or connected to Iceland. I got about 5 Great generals in my mission and they were ALL Icelandic or connected to Iceland. Lovely...

 

[Jeppson]

I would like to see sweden as a separate nation in civ. We have a great history with many wars and great kings. I think its completely wrong to merge the nordic countries into one civ like scandinavia in civ III. Denmark and sweden have fought many wars against eachother throughout history. The scandinavian civs as a nation is a JOKE. Because in real life we all hate eachother, thats why it has never come to my mind to play as the scandinavians or the vikings.

 

[Willowmound]

Because in real life we all hate eachother, thats why it has never come to my mind to play as the scandinavians or the vikings.

It has become obvious to me that the only Scandinavians who hate one another are Scandinavians who have never really travelled. Go away and live somewhere for a bit, and you will realise we are all brothers (and sisters), and that our petty rivalries are nothing more than the rivalies between siblings.

Dude, we are of the same basic culture. Focus on the simillarities, not the cute little differences.

 

[Dagenham Dave]

To say that we all hate each other is a pretty gross exaggeration anyway

although I can't stand norwegians

 

[Willowmound]

And why is that?

Come on, get it off your chest

 

[Lars_Domus]

I would like to see sweden as a separate nation in civ. We have a great history with many wars and great kings. I think its completely wrong to merge the nordic countries into one civ like scandinavia in civ III. Denmark and sweden have fought many wars against eachother throughout history. The scandinavian civs as a nation is a JOKE. Because in real life we all hate eachother, thats why it has never come to my mind to play as the scandinavians or the vikings.

Actually it makes sense for them to merge the scandinavians into a single civ. Scandinavian culture has undeniably left it's mark on world history and is worthy of inclusion, but the seperate Scandinavian countries on their own haven't been signifigant enough to include them all (not by a long shot!) and if they included only one country as a representation for the region, of course fans in the other countries would be angry and maybe consider not buying Warlords - Well, according to American marketing theorists anyway.

Even though we have fought amongst ourselves, the Scandinavian people have a very similar culture - other groups have gotten a similar treatment in Civ: the Celts, the Arabs, Greece. And besides there have been times when large parts of Scandinavia have been unified - ever heard of this little thing called the Kalmar Union? I suggest you look it up.

And we all hate each other? Maybe in the past... But most Norwegians today harbor no specific malice towards neither Swedes nor Danes. Except of course, for the friendly tradition of Swede/Norwegian-jokes.

Of course, calling the civ "The Viking empire" and having a mythological character with a mythological helmet represent it is just plain silly. They're still great fun though.

And if any single Scandinavian country should be a Civ, it's obviously Norway We were as strong as any Scandinavian country during the viking era, and in the modern era we're so filthy stinking rich we could buy the rest of Scandinavia if we so wished So what if we spent centuries as a vassal to certain other countries that shall remain nameless?

(Before some nationalist maniac takes this as an invitation to a flamewar, I want to point out that the last paragraph is a deliberate exaggeration and is meant humorously.)

 

[Dagenham Dave]

And why is that?

Come on, get it off your chest

Well I don't really. We just have a healthy love-hate relationship. Like two brothers mocking each other.

 

[cabert]

if you're just as sexy as the spies of cIV, i understand why your countrymen won't come to a comuter game forum
(one of them took the time to come and brag about how gorgreous the girls are, so it must not be true : how could he find time to play cIV or connect to internet )

 

[salty]

I am shaking my non-Viking helmet in anger.