No iron...no saltpeter.

TLF

Prince
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
324
And hardly any luxuries?

How am I supposed to play?

My lands are devoid of luxuries.
I have 2 fur and 1 gems. That's it.

Then, I find that there is no iron.
Arabia declares war because I wouldn't give away free items they requested.
They send Medieval Infantry, so they have iron.
I figured I was dead but my spears and archers did well holding them off from inside the city.
Then I got long bows that I sent to the city along with Trebuches which did well by bombarding them.

I raced to gunpowder only to find that there is no saltpeter anywhere.

So I guess I'm going to quit this one.

Is this a common occurrence to get so totally screwed on resources?
 
Sometimes [ alot ] you will get a complete 'rubbish' map..... occasionally you get a good one. I've stopped playing the game generated maps...... I just go to the editor and get a better map made.... or ...
Build your own map [?]....
 
I raced to gunpowder only to find that there is no saltpeter anywhere.

So I guess I'm going to quit this one.

Is this a common occurrence to get so totally screwed on resources?

I once had a game in which i had no luxuries, no iron, no horses and no saltpeter in my original area (that is, the area you're able to settle with your own settlers), with the added bonus that the original area in question was very small. I was basically cornered.

Emperor or Deity level, i don't remember exactly.

Guess what? It was one of the most fun games i had.

The challenge to hold off first, got useful stuff second and finally destroy all the AS was extreme. For a long time, i wasn't even sure to survive. Strategy, planning and micromanagement were paramount. One mistake, one single surprise attack and i could have been toast.

If i wanted to win easy on any map regardless of what i get and not, i'd be still playing Chieftain. But it would be just boring to the extreme.
 
Tell us what difficulty you're playing at and what size map you're using. I can help you work the editor to have a more enjoyable game.
 
I once had a game in which i had no luxuries, no iron, no horses and no saltpeter in my original area (that is, the area you're able to settle with your own settlers), with the added bonus that the original area in question was very small. I was basically cornered.

Emperor or Deity level, i don't remember exactly.

Guess what? It was one of the most fun games i had.

The challenge to hold off first, got useful stuff second and finally destroy all the AS was extreme. For a long time, i wasn't even sure to survive. Strategy, planning and micromanagement were paramount. One mistake, one single surprise attack and i could have been toast.

If i wanted to win easy on any map regardless of what i get and not, i'd be still playing Chieftain. But it would be just boring to the extreme.

And I believe that game is in your sig. :mischief:

With regards to the OP, I always play the game through, no matter how bad a start it is. It becomes a test of how good my skills are. Can I pull this out with limited/no resources and few luxuries? Unless your start is in tundra, there's always an opportunity to win.
 
Hi,

it could be worse. :D

In my current game is no rubber on the entire map! After searching the whole world (everthing explored by ships and map exchange) I exported the map into the editor, but there is defintive no rubber available.

This is irritating. I was believing that all strategic resources would be allways somewhere on the map. :confused:

On the positive side this means that the KI will also be unable to build Tanks, Infanterie and other advanced stuff... ;)
 
I ran a pretty extensive series of tests on the resource issue, and normally, you should have about as many of each strategic resource as there are players in the game, plus or minus 1. That does assume a small or standard map, normal temperate climate, 4 billion years. Luxuries tend to be bunched together is blocks of the same luxury, which can be a real headache if you are trying for Ivory for the Statute of Zeus. Tiny maps get a little weird. Large and huge maps might give you one or two extra of each. If you have a map like that, you got a really strange one courtesy of the RNG demons.

That is one reason why I now make my own maps. I set it for 31 players, generate it, and then limit the number in the game once I hit the start page. That gives me the resources for 31 players, while generally playing with 5-8 or so. I do play on large to huge to very huge (300 X 300 maps) maps. Spreads every one out and gives you time to develop before the war starts.
 
So I guess I'm going to quit this one.

Is this a common occurrence to get so totally screwed on resources?
Why quit now? It has just begun to get interesting!

I do understand your frustration ,with only two luxuries and no resources. I have had similiar things happen to me, too. Great learning experiences.

Do you have the 4000 BC save of that game? Can you post it or your latest gave game for us to look at?

And could your situation be any worse than this? Recovering from Last Place after Expansion Phase, Step by Step
 
Here are some saves.

This is just my 2nd civ 3 game so don't laugh too hard.

And, if anyone knows a bit about computers, take a look at my other recent post about civ 3 installation issue and computer freezes.
I'm having quit a bit of trouble.
 
Here are some saves.

This is just my 2nd civ 3 game so don't laugh too hard.

Advice #0: In the game preferences make sure that "Always wait at the end of the turn" is checked. Otherwise playing is a little pointless, as the game will just end the turn regardless of whether you are finished or not. It is a bit unfortunate that the default setting is to "Off".



My lands are devoid of luxuries.
I have 2 fur and 1 gems. That's it.

Not quite. There are Gems. But the English have them. But you could easily steal them, by placing a city in this way:
attachment.php

It is a little close to P'yongyang, but I would not worry about that too much. OCP is not very effective. Since it will also be fairly close to your capital you should see that you turn it into a core city with Library, Aqueduct, University and so on.

Then, I find that there is no iron.
Arabia declares war because I wouldn't give away free items they requested.
They send Medieval Infantry, so they have iron.

They even have an iron to spare. So, if you were at peace and had a trade route you could import one of their iron sources. However, at the moment you don't need it that desperately anyway, really.


I figured I was dead but my spears and archers did well holding them off from inside the city.
Then I got long bows that I sent to the city along with Trebuches which did well by bombarding them.

Yes, you are doing quite OK against them. It is not really such a big problem holding back the enemy with Trebuchets and Longbowmen.


I raced to gunpowder only to find that there is no saltpeter anywhere.

How can you say there is no saltpeter if you know hardly anything about the map? :p In addition, ask yourself, is saltpeter really that important? Unless you want to conquer the world with Cavalry, it is pretty negligible. At the moment you are not really in a shape to do much conquering anyway and Military Tradition is something that you will get to in the mid run. Apart from Cavs, Saltpeter allows Muskets which you don't really need, Frigates and Privateers which you don't really need either and which are a thing of the future. Hwach'as ... ok, that is your UU, but they also have only limited use too, especially since you have already had your Golden Age. (Right?? You have the GLib + Collossus and you are Korea.)

Iron is slightly different. True, you don't really need it at the moment that badly. Arabia is not that much of a problem: you could easily continue to trash their stream/trickle of MI that are coming your way, or you could sign peace as they are willing to talk and accept straight up peace. However in the mid run, you will want to be able to build railroads, and for that you need iron and coal. Arabia has iron to spare, and that is at least an option to keep an eye on.


How am I supposed to play?

In the situation that you are in, I would say continue the game with a higher emphasis on the builder angle. Scientific progress is your best bet. As Korea, Libraries and Universities are cheap and will help you a lot. Build more cities in the land that you have and improve the land as quickly and well as you can. And explore the world. You need to make contacts so you can trade for and sell technologies, and so you can import luxuries and resources.

That means, your empire needs:
-- Many more workers. You can hardly have enough of them
-- Settlers. You can easily build twice as many cities as you have now and then a few.
-- Boats to explore. Later maybe a few explorers which you can use to investigate the territory of your neighbors (England etc.).
-- Libraries, (Aqueducts,) Universities, Markets, (Harbours,) and Courts. Roughly in this order of importance. Granaries can be good here and there for cities tasked with building workers and settlers, preferably at size below 7. The rest is not so important.
-- Trade routes with your neighbors and civs you hopefully are going to meet.
-- Forbidden Palace.


Let me have a look at your cities:

Seoul
You are building a University, which is exactly the right decision. Afterwards, think about building a Harbour. This would give you more food from the coast tiles, and allow you to mine some of the irrigated grassland. Apart from that you don't need anything else improvement wise, at least not now. Since you have the Collossus here, and it is on the verge of giving you tourism bonus shortly, you could really think about turning this city into a Super Science City. Means, build Copernicus Observatory and Newton's University.

If you opt for an SSC, then Seoul will fully be occupied with building those two wonders, and you can sell the granary and the barracks.


P'yongyang
This city is not growing and stuck at size 9. It needs to have some of its plains irrigated. It also needs a Library and a University. As of now you are not nearly tapping the research potential of that city. It can give you three times the number of beakers than you have now.

It is relatvily commerce rich and can also be really productive and eventually produce the bulk of your military.


Wonsan
That is the city which is under attack. However, Arabia is not a big problem anyway. The city also has a happiness problem and is in disorder.

I would suggest using that city to produce settlers and workers. It will shrink, but that is OK. Switch the Longbow to a Settler. And, just for this one turn only, turn several of the laborers to scientists:
Spoiler :
attachment.php

That way you'll get a nice, one time amount of beakers. If I am not mistaken, the setter will complete next turn. After that, continue building settlers and workers. Wonsan has already got a Granary and is quite good foodwise.


Pusan
Pusan is building a Harbour. That is a good decision. After that, a galley or two to explore. And then a University. The Harbour will help the city to grow more quickly, and you should let it. Eventually you can place some more mines.


Namp'o
This city is building the Sistine Chapel. I am not sure you really need that. It is not such a good wonder. The Forbidden Palace would do much more for your Empire. You'll lose some shields if you switch, but that is OK. Afterwards, one Settler -- the city can regrow easily. And then a university.

The city has plenty of food but needs more shields.


Cheju
The city is producing Wealth. Not such a good decision. Maybe spit out a worker, then a galley, and afterwards build it up fully, with Library, University, Harbour. Marketplace and Courthouse are already present.

The city is relatively commerce rich, what with the three sugars, the river and and coastal tiles.


Hyangsan
This city is building a Cathedral. If you switch to an Aqueduct that will complete immediately. Afterwards, use the city for a limited time to build settlers and workes. And then build it up with the necessary improvements.


Pyongsong
Dunno. Build workers maybe.


Inch'on
Settlers and workers.


Taejon
A fledling Core City. It is building a Lib and that is a good start.




So I guess I'm going to quit this one.

Is this a common occurrence to get so totally screwed on resources?

Definitely no need to abandon the game. In fact, I think it is easy to win.

Luxuries and Resources can sometimes be quite tricky to obtain, but the resources are sometimes not really needed, and there is often the option to trade. No need to hesitate. And who knows, maybe there is an island or so that has what you need.
 

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Lord Emsworth;

Thank you for taking the time to look at the saves and to comment in such detail.

I played on a bit before I saw your post.
I kept moving longbows and the occasional spear into the city under attack, but the city eventually fell.

I know that the cathedral in Hyangsan isn't the best choice, but I am trying to squeeze the English city.
I was just about to take those gems when I got hit with a barbarian onslaught and then the English landed and placed that city.
I don't want to take it by force because the Queen is already making demands on my "puny nation". I don't need 2 wars.

Now that Wonsan has fallen Taejon will flop over like a wet noodle.

I will have to go back to an earlier save and try to hold Wonsan.
Possible ask for peace.
Arabia wanted to talk a while back and I foolishly declined to talk to them.
 
I have played a little too, according to my own suggestions.

Lord Emsworth;

Thank you for taking the time to look at the saves and to comment in such detail.

I played on a bit before I saw your post.
I kept moving longbows and the occasional spear into the city under attack, but the city eventually fell.

Ah, the trick is sometimes just to use the trebuchets and ping the attackers a little and not pick them off afterwards. Especially if a units occupies a tile alone. The AI is not very keen on using 1/3 or 2/3 units to attack, they often rather retreat them. And that is pretty much the key to success here. In the save as you posted for example there are two MI adjacent to Wonsan, however they are on different tiles. Just use the Trebs to hurt them a little, and see how they retreat during the interturn. If you attack them, your own units are going to be exposed and be killed in turn.

If there are small stacks, you can skim off the units on top, and let the bottom unit retreat or attack.

You also have an army. I am not sure what the best use is. I filled it with Longbows since that gives up to two pretty certain victories per turn. It is however not safe from attack from these MIs. On the other hand, filling it with Spears or even mixing has its ups and downs too.


And if you need more units, upgrade some of the archers that you already have. It is 30 gold per unit with Leonado's.


I know that the cathedral in Hyangsan isn't the best choice, but I am trying to squeeze the English city.

That is not going to work. You cannot win tiles from the English that are closer to their city with culture. Culture is only the tiebreaker if the tile is equally close. The only exception is if a city does not have sufficient culture at all to lay claims to a tile.

I will have to go back to an earlier save and try to hold Wonsan.
Possible ask for peace.
Arabia wanted to talk a while back and I foolishly declined to talk to them.

You can just contact them yourself. Once they are willing to talk during a war, they are always willing to talk.
 
Hi,

If you have a map like that, you got a really strange one courtesy of the RNG demons.
sorry, but what is "RNG". I assume it has something to do with map generating?

It is a standard size map (Warlord, archipels, everything else on medium). The game itself is somewhat modified (early ships changed, Artemis-Tempel without Timeout, some luxuries and bonus resources added). I play as the Iroquois (and just iced the Japanese, following their victory over the Vikings - This means, that I now got room for three cultures. :D ).
 
Hi,


sorry, but what is "RNG". I assume it has something to do with map generating?

It is a standard size map (Warlord, archipels, everything else on medium). The game itself is somewhat modified (early ships changed, Artemis-Tempel without Timeout, some luxuries and bonus resources added). I play as the Iroquois (and just iced the Japanese, following their victory over the Vikings - This means, that I now got room for three cultures. :D ).

Sorry, RNG is short for Random Number Generator. What the game does is take a randomly generated number and use that as the basis for generating the map. If you go to the Editor and generate a map, you will see in the lower right hand corner of the map menu a box labeled World Seed. That is the number that will be used to generate the map. If you change that, you change the map that is generated.
 
Lord Emsworth;

Thank you for taking the time to look at the saves and to comment in such detail.

I played on a bit before I saw your post.
I kept moving longbows and the occasional spear into the city under attack, but the city eventually fell.

I know that the cathedral in Hyangsan isn't the best choice, but I am trying to squeeze the English city.
I was just about to take those gems when I got hit with a barbarian onslaught and then the English landed and placed that city.
I don't want to take it by force because the Queen is already making demands on my "puny nation". I don't need 2 wars.

Now that Wonsan has fallen Taejon will flop over like a wet noodle.

I will have to go back to an earlier save and try to hold Wonsan.
Possible ask for peace.
Arabia wanted to talk a while back and I foolishly declined to talk to them.

One option in that situation, if you are having trouble holding back Arabia, is to form a military alliance with England. That will get Arabia off your back (they have to travel through England to get to you in the first place). You will have to give them Gunpowder to do it. But while Arabia and England fight, you can focus on getting that empire built (starting with more workers) and that should allow you to get back on the tech lead.

If it were me, I might get China involved too. Build the embassy, give up the Gunpowder, and now all three of your near neighbors are focused on beating up each other while you focus on building. While England and China are in a military alliance with you, they won't be coming after you, and with the furious attitude building between your three neighbors they are more likely to go after each other in the future.
 
Sorry, but I ended up giving up on the game.

I had gotten things pretty much under control and then made the very large mistake of switching to republic, and worse, I didn't save before doing it.

I lost 6 turns in anarchy and then found myself in a huge financial hole because of losing the support for my military that monarchy had been giving me.

If I had a save that I could go back to I would continue, but not like this.

I was surprised that there was no auto save that I could use.
 
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