No Noob-Love?

[Shurdus]

I notice that all of the regular posters have gotten into the immortal difficulty. Great job! I just started playing CIV4 3 weeks ago and have only had BTS for about a week. I am a noob. Why Immortal level players got to hog all the spotlight? What happened to the Noble's Club? I'm sure I'm not alone in this perdiciment. I want to get better but the only resources I can find are either below or above my level. At an awkward plateau here, and I need some help.

(Before the slew of "the info is there, use the search feature" responses I expect, I have looked over 90% of the War Academy, and have been shadowing posts for about 2 weeks. My problem is not with knowledge but application. I wait with bated breath for the next Nobles Club... And yes I tried doing the previous Immortal Academy game as Asoka, but am way behind and did not want to bog the session down with Noob Lessons)

Cheers,
Deux.

Wait... The IU is there for people to learn. The IU thread before that I explicitly stated in the first post that I would post screenshots and that I wanted feedback. I got that feedback and it was very useful to me.

Now if you would post in that thread, you are learning a lot new stuff and that is what the thread is for. No one would say 'immortal level only go away noob!' If you post your game I would be happy to provide you with feedback.

Another thing to do can be to post some screenshots of your last game and we can tell you what went well and what needs a revision. A lot of the regulars do not mind doing that at all, me included.

For the rest I can just say keep your eyes and ears open and try to soak in as much as you can here. I find not every bit of info useful, but at least it will get you to the point where you can judge for yourself if you want to apply suggested strats in your own game or not.

 

[Tyrael]

Reading through the first 3-5 ALCs by Sisiutil helped me tremendously in my move from Warlord to Prince, even though they were on Monarch iirc (maybe Prince). It'll take a little while but everything is there, with tons of feedback and discussion. Pay attention to forest chopping and Slavery in particular, as the early game is very very important.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi Comrade-Deux,

I might repeat what others have already said but there is nothing wrong with playing settler/cheiftain/warlord/noble/... levels. I feel it's just that regular posters well, play for a long time so have improved with the help of the community. You should see the positive aspect: there are plenty of people ready to help you! (obviously you will most of the time get contradictory advices, or get lost in one of those debates about economies ...) And one should never feel bad to ask something (well make sure the question hasn't been answered already with a quick searck on the forums). You are prolly not the only one in this case, so as others have said, just start a game (there are also noble games in the SG forum) and enjoy!

Cheers,
Raskolnikov (kinda permanoob )
edit: if you know the theory, then just play more (as time allows)... but honnestly, make a poll to know how many people beat immortal after 3 weeks of play and you will feel better... ie, don't feel bad because you got trashed in that IU

 

[Shurdus]

Hi Comrade-Deux,

I might repeat what others have already said but there is nothing wrong with playing settler/cheiftain/warlord/noble/... levels. I feel it's just that regular posters well, play for a long time so have improved with the help of the community. You should see the positive aspect: there are plenty of people ready to help you! (obviously you will most of the time get contradictory advices, or get lost in one of those debates about economies ...) And one should never feel bad to ask something (well make sure the question hasn't been answered already with a quick searck on the forums). You are prolly not the only one in this case, so as others have said, just start a game (there are also noble games in the SG forum) and enjoy!

Cheers,
Raskolnikov (kinda permanoob )
edit: if you know the theory, then just play more (as time allows)... but honnestly, make a poll to know how many people beat immortal after 3 weeks of play and you will feel better... ie, don't feel bad because you got trashed in that IU

Do you not play deity level games in the SG forum, mr. Permanoob?

And I believe there were polls here that asked what level people play at. The majority of people play noble or lower. Only a few people can take on immortal on a regular basis and even fewer are the deity level players. I myself struggle with immortal after playing this game for well over a year now. I got very close to winning on several occasions and won only once.

The impotant thing however is to have fun and participate in discussions if you want to improve. You might learn something from settler level players and deity players alike.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Do you not play deity level games in the SG forum, mr. Permanoob?

nope, not yet... (well immortal with harsh restrictions is hard enough ).

The impotant thing however is to have fun and participate in discussions if you want to improve. You might learn something from settler level players and deity players alike.

agreed

Cheers

 

[oyzar]

The last thread asking what level people played at came up with monarch as average, roughly normal distributed up and down i belive. It just means that there aren't as many new players joining the game as before... Those that have played it for a while do get better.

 

[JTMacc99]

Hey, newbies! The advice has already been given here, but let me echo it again.

If you want specific pointers, start a game and post the saves. People will look at them for you and tell you exactly what you should be doing along the way. Screen shots will get you more advice, but even just the saves will let people see what you're doing and advise you on strategy.

If you want to play a nobles club game, there is absolutely no reason not to just go back, find one and start playing it. Many people here will actually jump at the chance to chime in as you post updates.

 

[Sian]

reason NC have been down is that i've been swamped more than i believed by RL (most speficicly exams )

but yeah ...

 

[benfp]

Sisiutil's strategy guide is what helped me get from Warlord to higher levels (currently comfortable on Monarch, and so-so on Emperor). By providing details about how to get synergies working between various aspects of the game (say for instance, what buildings & civics would help develop your empire's culture), this guide assisted me in:
1/ Understanding what strategies can be operated at various eras of a game
2/ How to evaluate the possibilities to optimize the strategy outcome

This is a general thinking process I've kept up to this day. During my Marathon games, I try to have different strategies for different time spans (short-term: 50 turns; mid-term: 200 turns; long-term: 500 turns) and always try to take decisions (diplomacy, military, technology, etc.) which will best fit this strategy. Of course, sometimes I pick a wrong strategy or I take wrong decisions, but I guess we all do err and learn from it.

Et bienvenue au fait ! Es-tu français ?

 

[JBossch]

I disagree with the advice that noobs play below noble level if comfortable there. The bonuses given to the player make the game a joke and nerf all of the basic game mechanics to the point that they don't even function. Playing at settler one will not understand that overexpansion can hurt your econ, that going for every single wonder is a bad idea, that acquiring a tech advantage is important in warfare. If you insist on rolling over archers with modern armor, fine, have at it on settler difficulty, but if you want to learn the game play noble at least.

 

[benfp]

These bonuses certainly do nerf all the basic game mechanics, but in the "how to play Civ IV" process there are several prior steps to the "understand the game mechanics and use them at your advantage" one. There's the "what the hell does this button do?" and "what does mean culture/science/etc.". In my experience, it's pointless to start at Noble unless you played games in a similar genre or previous opus of the Civilization saga.

Indeed, I remember I started by a few MP Noble games on Civ IV Vanilla with a friend who wasn't more experienced than me civ iv-wise - and generally less gaming-wise. We got spanked game after game, and continued to play Noble as my friend insisted we would be "chickens" if we'd play with an advantage over a computer. After these few attempts of getting past the AD barrier without getting overwhelmed by Aztec Jaguars, I played a some solo games as warlord and THAT let me get a more global overview of the game and also granted me some fun - which is a nice incentive to continue practicing a recreational hobby, mind you.

I'd recommend any beginner to start at Warlord difficulty in order to understand the UI and to get an overview of the major gaming mechanics (cities, units, buildings, wonders, tiles, production, growth, commerce, science, gold, culture, etc.).

I do agree with everything else you stated about bonuses given to players on settlers nerfing the game mechanics.

 

[michmbk]

...also granted me some fun - which is a nice incentive to continue practicing a recreational hobby, mind you.

Funny, this exact point is why I shadow some of the monarch/prince/noble games people post on the forum. The frustration of immortal right now gets to me as I'm only running about 50-50 on wins & losses, and it takes a lot of close concentration to achieve that...so I like to drop down on some of these to have some fun kicking down the AIs butt from time to time.

I figure if you pay your money for the game, enjoy it in whatever way that it's most fun for you. If that means playing warlord, so be it. For me, that means trying to win at immortal, but when that gets frustrating, smacking heads at lower levels, or trying some unusual strategy at a lower level game to see how it works.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I think everyone likes to drop down from time to time...it's just fun to WRECK the AI instead of struggle on occasion.

Those of us that post such games...well we've figured out how to rapidly post game updates with pictures so that it isn't too time intensive . A couple months back I changed my screen shot methodology such that I can write game summaries in <5 minutes now (once they're uploaded, but I do something else during that time). Yay for more game spam .

 

[oyzar]

Drop down can also mean just crooking the settings. Even on quick speed deity AI really can't handle any sort of praets on a land based map.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Unless of course they box you out of iron, that is .

Edit: I find it hard to believe that an AI that can build a longbow/turn easily in any city would struggle to stop a player's prats on quick. I did G major 51 and that was pretty difficult on normal. How would you actually nail a deity AI down using prats on quick? You'd have trouble taking more than 1-2 cities before they'd be swarming you, even if you cooked the leaders.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

For me it's the other way around.
When I get my first win at some level, I never play at lower levels anymore. Don't ask me why, it's probably some sort of hidden ego thing.

But then I'm not playing civ 4 at all lately. Got distracted by Sins of a Solar Empire and Hearts of Iron 2. Gonna be harsh when I'll return straight to Immortal (about 40-60 atm).

 

[pigswill]

The problem isn't that people who play higher difficulties post too many threads. The problem is that people who play lower difficulties don't post enough. I've never encountered a rule that you have to be able to beat emperor before you can post on the forum. So don't complain, join in.

 

[Comrade-Deux]

@ ... well everyone!

Thanks for taking an interest but I think you are all making this into something it is not. I posted this thread to do 2 things, which I probably failed at clarifying: To see what happened to the NC games, and to see how many regular lurkers felt similarly marginalized by the high level of play by the forum personalities.

I tend to agree with pigswill, it is the fault of the weaker players to come foreward and to take part in the process. I am doing that. And, I plan on trying to get the NC going again.

Oh, and I play for a challenge. I play comfortably at Noble now, i just don't finish many games now because once I get to a 'won' position it becomes less fun; because of this I tend to have less experience beyond medieval level techs. This leads me to ask: what can you do to start getting better? I have a few ideas. Tell me what you think of these:

1: Don't disable anything! Learn to roll with the punches!
2: Finish games! This has been my weak point; I play for maybe 4 hours straight and get to a good position and when it comes to the next day i'd rather start a new game than go back and do the 'chore' of finishing up the AI.
3: Learn to love Fractal! It's unexpected without being random; and has overall become my favorite map choice which tests one's adaptability.
4: Go outside your comfort zone! Nothing ventured nothing gained.

I know I'm not neccesarily the best person to be giving advice; but I've been a gamer all my life and I have learned how to get good pretty fast. These are just habits I have begun to adopt outside the game to help me improve. Any additions or subtractions would be welcome.

 

[Kaosprophet]

And I believe there were polls here that asked what level people play at. The majority of people play noble or lower. Only a few people can take on immortal on a regular basis and even fewer are the deity level players. I myself struggle with immortal after playing this game for well over a year now. I got very close to winning on several occasions and won only once.

Selection bias does imply most of the posters here are at or working on Immortal level, though. Other results from polls likely indicate a strong lurker contingent playing at other levels.

Edit: the solution to this, of course, is for us lurkers to come out of our shell rather than complain about everyone else hogging the attention

I think everyone likes to drop down from time to time...it's just fun to WRECK the AI instead of struggle on occasion.

Those of us that post such games...well we've figured out how to rapidly post game updates with pictures so that it isn't too time intensive . A couple months back I changed my screen shot methodology such that I can write game summaries in <5 minutes now (once they're uploaded, but I do something else during that time). Yay for more game spam .

Speaking of, I started playing the latest edition of the NC game you threw up and realized... I'm lost on the concept of accumulating interesting screenshots & keeping summary notes. (Which is also possibly hindering my move up, it's hard to keep track of what works & where I made errors without some kind of record.)
So any advice anyone can offer on that would be great. Especially the question of what you use for screenshots. (I'm sure that's answered somewhere already, but I'll be damned if I could find it.)

 

[Firewind]

I've never really understood how to make summaries of games, and I don't really have the patience for it - I tend to go in cycles of obsession/disinterest, and when I'm in an obsessive phase, I don't want to wait two days for people to comment on my situation, much less a week for an argument regarding which way to settle or who to kill first to clear up.

Then again, considering I've been playing for a year or two now, and only -just- managed to crack Noble (My first Noble win today: One of the rare games I stuck out, because I wasn't sure what would happen, managed to secure a Culture victory from behind ), I might have to learn to tolerate it to improve my game.