There's a few region maps where some are grassland, but if it's a scripted map; it's going to be plains.
No Stone Works on plains???
- Thread starter Zaimejs
- Start date
There's a few region maps where some are grassland, but if it's a scripted map; it's going to be plains.
I know...it's just that i don't always think about it...since that you have to manually check. I can't reload in mp games!!!!
AlbTroll
Chieftain
One other factor that maybe contributing to the decision to keep stone works off plains is probably Salt.
I am not and expert on exactly how resources are distributed during map generation but I was always under the impression that luxury resources and bonus resources are handled separately.
Most cities are great when they have 2-3 different luxury resources within a 3 hex radius. I can't remember ever seeing 4 unique within an area that I could place a city and get all of them. It may have happened but it is rare.
Since Salt is a luxury resource it is distributed with the other luxury resources. Salt tends to be distributed in clusters unlike say Marble which usually is usually by itself.
You can easily get a plains start with 1 Marble, 2-3 salt and 1-3 stone. I have even seen Egypt start next to a desert river (Floodplains) that is sort of on the edge of a large desert that transitions into plains. They had the Marble (+15% Ancient & Classical Wonders) the Salt on plains, as well as some stone. Every few turns they where dropping wonders in Thebes and just crushed it. Thebes was on a desert / floodplain tile
I think that the prevention of a Stone Works on a plains tile is to sort of keep these type of killer starts (with salt and stone) to a minimum.
I am not and expert on exactly how resources are distributed during map generation but I was always under the impression that luxury resources and bonus resources are handled separately.
Most cities are great when they have 2-3 different luxury resources within a 3 hex radius. I can't remember ever seeing 4 unique within an area that I could place a city and get all of them. It may have happened but it is rare.
Since Salt is a luxury resource it is distributed with the other luxury resources. Salt tends to be distributed in clusters unlike say Marble which usually is usually by itself.
You can easily get a plains start with 1 Marble, 2-3 salt and 1-3 stone. I have even seen Egypt start next to a desert river (Floodplains) that is sort of on the edge of a large desert that transitions into plains. They had the Marble (+15% Ancient & Classical Wonders) the Salt on plains, as well as some stone. Every few turns they where dropping wonders in Thebes and just crushed it. Thebes was on a desert / floodplain tile
I think that the prevention of a Stone Works on a plains tile is to sort of keep these type of killer starts (with salt and stone) to a minimum.
There's one other factor that makes plains worse off than grassland or desert (flood plains). For the purposes of the math, I'm considering pre-Civil Service and pre-Fertilizer, as we're discussing just the start. If you have three citizens working in the Grass or Desert they might do something like this:
2x Farmer (3 food each = 6 total)
1x Miner (3 Production)
whereas the 3 in the Plains have to work 3 Plains Farms
3x Farmer (2 food, 1 production each = 6 food, 3 production)
These are equal until one considers that the Mine in question could easily be a luxury, meaning that the Grass/Desert starts are now making Gold on top of their other advantages.
2x Farmer (3 food each = 6 total)
1x Miner (3 Production)
whereas the 3 in the Plains have to work 3 Plains Farms
3x Farmer (2 food, 1 production each = 6 food, 3 production)
These are equal until one considers that the Mine in question could easily be a luxury, meaning that the Grass/Desert starts are now making Gold on top of their other advantages.
danaphanous
religious fanatic
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2013
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- 1,501
This is lame. That's all I have to say about that...
Sorry, but IMHO that seems like wishful thinking. It seems much, much more likely to be an accident. You could also argue that cover is working as designed, and that pikes/spears not getting a bonus against chariot archers is deliberate.
The xml specifically includes the following line for Stoneworks:
Might be a bad design decision, but an accident? Hardly.
Might be a bad design decision, but an accident? Hardly.
I was not careful in my phrasing. Yes, it was plainly (ha!) deliberate at one point. When one considers that the start algorithm considers plain hills to be better than grass hills and both better than desert hills, it seems obvious that some early play balance choices were, accidentally, never revisited. No stone works on plains seems as emblematic as anything of this issue. The choice/decision/error/mistake is arbitrary and counter intuitive. I think it is fair to characterize this as “accidental” – but I concede the literal point.
lockstep
Prince
For people like the OP who stumble upon the "No stone works in plains" restriction mid-game: I have created a small mod Stone Works In Plains that allows Stone Works in any terrain. The mod does not affect saves, so it may be enabled for games already in progress. (The usual caveats for using mods apply: No achievements, no hall of fame entry.)
It’s relatively easy to patch, but it is mostly only a problem the first time one encounters the issue. But since it was a nasty surprise, it is usually too late to fix. It bugs me, but now that I know, i just live with it.
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