No-Wonder Kublai Khan do Immortal

[Harv]

Here it is, my very first Immortal game.

Somebody requested a no-wonder game. I still get to choose the leader, and I have been playing with Creative as my crutch, so I will choose Kublai Khan of Mongolia as our leader.

Creative - That has been our crutch. Faster border pops. It's nice for expanding city borders very early in the game. Cheap are a bonus. If I am building cheap Theaters, then maybe I have gone back to spamming buildings.

Aggressive - Cheaper barracks. We get it for 25 hammers instead of 50. Also, cheaper drydock, but I'm not sure when those get built. We also get combat 1 on melee and gunpowder units, which get built all the time. With the cheap barracks, the units get bigger promotions right out of the gate.

If we can find Horses, then we are in luck, because the UU and UB both revolve around the horse.

The Keshik is kind of like a Horse Archer, but it ignores terrain movement costs. This should be very handy for running through enemy terrain. Unfortunately, I did see it does not receive defensive bonuses. It is also not immune to first strikes. Instead, it gets a first strike. This will be handy against melee units that it might face, hopefully not spears.

To add to that, the Ger grants 4XP to our mounted units instead of 2. So the Keshiks will be coming out of the gate with 7XP and an extra promotion. With a couple of civics, we can get more than that.

We still have the cheap barracks and free combat promoted melee units as a bonus or backup.

Here goes...... the settings......

Spoiler :

Keeping everybody in suspense over the start, here are the starting demographics.

Spoiler :

We have 3 opponents with 17000 soldiers and 3 opponents with 19000 soldiers, for an average of 18000 soldiers. I think how this works is.....

At Immortal, it seems everybody starts with 3 Archers, 2 Scouts, 1 Worker, and 1 Settler.
They also get Hunting and Archery. I'm not sure about the other technologies.
9 - For 3 Archers, times 3k each
2 - For Hunting
6 - For Archery
17 Total

So we have 3 civilizations that start with Mining and nobody else starts with The Wheel. So for funzies, we can cross off a bunch of civilizations that are not in this game.

Added:

Spoiler :

No Arabia
Babylon
Byzantines
Egypt
France
Japan
Mali
Ottoman
or Sumeria

Maybe this slightly increases the probability we run into a civilization early on that already knows Fishing.

So with that little distraction out of the way, here is what everybody has been waiting for - the start!

Spoiler :

From this angle, it looks amazing! We have bunches of food, bunches of forest, options for production, and gold!

With the Scout, I think our options are to explore the gold hill, or one of the other hills, like the plains hill, just in case we have a better start on a plains hill.

As for all that seafood, we do not start with Fishing, so we will have to research it. Once again, our starting techs are not helping us out much.

Added: It looks like we pull out what I learned from my Egypt game. It also started with seafood, but no fishing. We worked on a warrior while accumulating points towards Fishing, then suddenly switch to a fishing boat, which should be an 8-turn build. It also looks like we do not need Agriculture, but we will need Mining and Bronze Working.

So..... Fishing, Mining, and Bronze Working?

Does the crab and frost on trees indicate we are near the southern edge of the map?

Is 1S an alternative settling place? I think not, but we can settle another city 3N and share some of that seafood.

Also, looking at the map later, I realized the gold is outside the BFC, but that is no big deal. We can settle a city to capture it. We will have it later.

 

[sampsa]

I think it's a rather weak start for a non-fishing starter. Nothing to do with a worker pre-BW and only one shareable food. I'd move scout on the gold and consider wondering NE with the settler, depending on what I see.

 

[Snowbird]

only one shareable food.

Hard to judge from screenshot, but looks like nothing is shareable unless settler moves 1S (which is likely a resource)

 

[sampsa]

Hmm true, maybe 3N of settler is not a land tile. My screenshot gazing skills are not that sophisticated.

 

[AcaMetis]

At Immortal, it seems everybody starts with 3 Archers, 2 Scouts, 1 Worker, and 1 Settler.
They also get Hunting and Archery. I'm not sure about the other technologies.

Immortal gives them Archery, Hunting and Agriculture (or at least NC maps do, and I'm assuming those follow vanilla CiV IV difficulty rules ).

Does the crab and frost on trees indicate we are near the southern edge of the map?

The crabs I'm not sure, but the snow on the forests, yes. Pine to the north and snow-covered pines to the south means you're in the south hemisphere, very close to the tundra. I'd focus most of your actual scouting efforts north, and at least some barb defences south. Tundra is not what you want to settle or explore early, usually, so it tends to be filled with barbarians.

 

[Harv]

Because it's Friday and I read the comments and it can be done very quickly, I loaded up the game and moved the scout. Moving the Settler will only tell us what is on the forest tile 2N from us.

If it's a weak start, this is still an option!

Spoiler :

In real history, the Mongols should have restarted their map!

Anyway, I moved the scout on to the gold.

Spoiler :

I see a bunch more forest.

 

[Jarno]

consider wondering NE with the settler

It's a No-Wonder challenge!!



.. perhaps you were wondering whether it was better to wander off with the settler?

 

[Fippy]

I would also go 1ne with the settler, for a path towards 1n of gold next turn.
We can see green tiles starting east of your scout, and another ph west of peaks, the scout should be given time for further exploration east.
Even if you wander (or wonder ) some turns, a regular food resi + gold would still be much better than only seafood with no fitting tech (not even mining).

 

[Harv]

It's a No-Wonder challenge!!



.. perhaps you were wondering whether it was better to wander off with the settler?

Just when I had picked out a nomadic nation for the no-wander challenge, I realized I typed a no-wonder challenge!

Looking at the site, with a lighthouse, I count a food surplus of 19 at size 5. Add a green farm, that’s 20. If we can get to size 16, we can run 10 scientists with caste system.

The Great Library would make that 12. However, we said no-wonder, not no-wander. Also, with that many scientists, it would only be about ten turns and it’s already obsolete.

Do national wonders count? 10 scientists, national epic, and Oxford University would generate a lot of science.

Just as I was generating a plan to settle in place and research Fishing, Mining, and Bronze Working, everybody is telling me to wander with the settler in our no-wonder wander challenge.

So there are two concepts I see in wandering. One is we find a plains hill for that bonus production. The other is we want to find a site with animals, so that we can research animal husbandry right away. Agriculture resources would be a second prize.

Our current site is securely ours. We will likely settle it second if we are wandering.

 

[elmurcis]

Looks like my regular Mara-noob start where I build only 1 Wonder (since nothing else matters)

 

[Qactus]

That's a tricky start, no wonder you are scrambling for the right move!

I also agree leaving that certainly awesome site for later is probably best - it would be way too slow as a capital. And generally moving a bit NE, away from coast and tundra is also solid.
Let's just hope there's some food source around the gold. Next scout move probably 2E. If that water tile east of the peak turns out to be coast again, settler can always go north. But hopefully it's a lake and there's more land. Usually you could check if it says freshwater in the mouseover, but since it's a peak it won't tell you.

Oh, and IMO you should definitely allow yourself national wonders. Not building NE in that seafood paradise would be sacrilege. The no wonder rule is a great idea for learning purposes, because you'll have less distraction from the key game elements. HE and NE are however part of those key elements, and picking the correct site and timing for them is a thing worth practising.

 

[Harv]

Good eye on that water tile. Alright....

If I move the scout 2N, then we reveal a lot more tiles around the plains hill we are talking about settling. We also have a chance at finding out if that water is a lake, which is very likely. A coast would mean we have a pretty narrow tip of the continent.

 

[Fippy]

North all looks like forests, hills, plains and so on..your scout should look east where we can see green starting.
In case you should move further.

 

[Harv]

Okay, we can move east.

We have until turn 5 to settle, correct? It will be a very short game if we get eaten by a wolf on Turn 6!

Added: Checking around that PH location, we have clear visibility of 12 of 20 tiles and some visibility of a few more. It looks like a lot of brown forest. The only prospect I see is if a food source shows up where everybody is telling me to move the scout east.

 

[Harv]

Okay, I'm up to Turn 132 and will post an update shortly!

 

[Harv]

The Journey to the Promised Land
to Turn 1

We moved our Settler and sadly left all that seafood behind. We do not have the tools.

A generation rolls by and Mongols are ready to migrate again. Moving the Scout, we find.....

Spoiler :

Is that better? (3,2) from the Settler gets us the Plains Hill and a Pig and Gold.

Added, Turn 1 Demographics:

Spoiler :

No Charismatic leaders. We probably have one or two religious nuts.

 

[Harv]

But hopefully it's a lake and there's more land. Usually you could check if it says freshwater in the mouseover, but since it's a peak it won't tell you.

I finally remembered to check the tiles you mentioned. It is fresh water. It is a lake.

So we are looking at a Turn 3 start?

 

[Fippy]

Oh very nice, pigs and gold is much much better than seafood starts, and you even get a 12t ph worker to make up for movement time.

 

[sampsa]

It's a No-Wonder challenge!!

.. perhaps you were wondering whether it was better to wander off with the settler?

Oops

Is that better? (3,2) from the Settler gets us the Plains Hill and a Pig and Gold.

That's really nice, now you don't need to wonder where to settle. Thanks to the plains hill capital, worker is out T15 anyway. A lot faster start compared to SIP.

 

[dankok8]

If he chose a leader that started with Fishing then settle in place would be optimal? Or still more optimal to move?