No wonder Succession Game: Slowboat to Alpha Centauri

Not a very eventful set of turns but at least we are bigger and somewhat better developed than when I started:

25 BC (0): Speed science up a bit by working ocean tiles in a few cities since we want philosophy.

1 AD (1): Nothing to note.

20 AD (2): Muddy Gardens builds our first caravan.

40 AD (3): ARRRGGGHHH !! Masonry from hut.

60 AD (4): Babylonians abandon Great Wall. Civil disorder in Ilona. Barbarians land near NoWoW :eek:. Move diplomat and horseman closer. Refrain from popping hut.

80 AD (5): More barbs near NoWoW :eek:. Barbarian archer bribed for $61. The archer then kills another archer. We meet the Carthaginians at (104,20), give map making to them and make peace.

100 AD (6): Philosophy discovered, followed by republic. The Carthaginians expel our diplomat. City of Darkhouse founded. Two barbs killed.

120 AD (7): Civil disorder in Swansea. City of NoCol founded. Revolution.

140 AD (8): Panormus (Carthaginians) builds Lighthouse. We become a republic. 40% luxuries needed, taxes to maximum to fund temples. We give literacy, philosophy, monarchy, currency and writing to the Carthaginians and get polytheism (elephants rule !!), mathematics, the wheel, iron working and warrior code in return. We then gift them two techs to get them to exchange maps. We also refuse to declare war on the Americans. We then give the republic to the Americans and get construction in return. They are then gifted two techs to get them to exchange maps. They then offer an alliance but it turns out they want us to declare war on the Carthaginians so this is declined.

160 AD (9): Advanced tribe (Llangollen) from hut.

180 AD (10): Nothing to note.

200 AD (11): Advanced tribe (Dinas Powys) from hut. Advanced tribe (Aberystwyth) from hut.

220 AD (12): Barbs from hut at (22,10).

240 AD (13): We get banking from the Americans in exchange for polytheism but they do not want an alliance unless we declare war on the Carthaginians.

260 AD (14): The Carthaginians do not want to exchange techs.

280 AD (15): Egyptians build Great Library.

300 AD (16): Washington builds Great Wall.

320 AD (17): The Americans finish Marco Polo and request our audience. They want us to declare war on the Carthaginians and an alliance. No. Dye (demanded) from Muddy Gardens to Washington ($312) and suddenly there's lots of $$ available. Rush buy some temples and fire Elvis in a few cities.

340 AD (18): Carthage build Oracle.

360 AD (19): Nothing to note.

380 AD (20): :eek: barbs near Illauntanig, IRB an elephant.

Notes:

I've been concentrating on infrastructure (mainly temples and caravans). An alternative would be to build some barracks and then an army of elephants. Most of the techs have come via exchanges; I've been doing very little science after discovering philosophy.

I switched to republic far earlier than I usually do, I usually stay in monarchy until I build Mike. However, without the HG civil disorder and corruption was a major problem.

We can form an alliance with the Americans by declaring war on the Carthaginians but this means our reputation drops to excellent. This isn't a problem, however, the Carthaginians are on the same continent as Swansea and Dinas Powys and getting more units there (elephants and diplomats) before starting a war seemed prudent.

Flimsy Wall is currently supporting two settlers but cannot do this in the long term so the settlers north of Swansea should found a city soon. There are some great squares for a production city on the river to the NW. However, we will need strong military presence in any city there ASAP, IMO an elephant should be rush bought followed by a dip. My experience is that the Carthaginians usually cannot be trusted.

The caravan near Darkhouse is waiting for the trireme SW of Dinas Powys to ferry it to America. Actually we really need more triremes.

It is possible to grow a few cities via WLTP but I didn't think it was worth the trouble until our trade improves so more cities can grow.

The settler on the island SW/W of iIllauntanig is ready to found a city at a site that has access to four specials.

Troops from the purple civ were spotted near the western edge of the Carthaginian empire shortly after exchanging maps.

We really need an embassy in America and preferably Carthage too.
 
My thoughts:
1. Working the ocean: I think I've heard of folks doing this in the other succession games, for the reason given (increasing beakers). I confess I should probably try it more often, myself. (I did give it a go in my attempt at GOTM 37: with all those fish, and very little else, who wouldn't?)
2. Masonry from the hut isn't so bad: we needed at least one tech so that Republic would appear on our choices once we got Philosophy.
3. Poor Illauntanig is turning into a Barb magnet.
4. That must have been a long walk home for the expelled dip!
5. Congrats on the caravan delivery :goodjob:
6. I just recently noticed in my games that when I send TWO (i.e., "stacked") diplomats, the A.I. doesn't (or can't?) expel them, allowing me to set up embassies. This is probably either (a) something everyone else already knows; or (b) wrong - and my contrary observation was a fluke, but you might try it, since we should have a goodly number of dips. If I'm wrong, of course, we can also just "stack" a dip with a caravan and deliver both at the same time.
7. War is not my specialty (cringing, hiding, appeasing -- those are my specialties;) hey, how did YOU know I was a democrat?), but I hear (here) that vet Eles do rule. Maybe we build one or two barracks on Swansea's continent? (Would that be enough to supply a slow war? Or do we want a fast war? I guess we have to take some things slowly, as any wonder cities must be reduced to rubble, and both the Americans and the Carts have at least one wonder.)
8. Thoughts on tech path? My own priorities were getting philosophy and getting to republic, both of which we've achieved. After that, I go for trade, which we already have. After that, I go for the necessary wonder techs, which . . . we certainly don't have the same incentive for, here. If we want to focus on growth, I would think we will want banks, to celebrate up at least our better cities. If we want to focus on war, well shucks: we already have vet Eles!
:)
 
Too many cities have been built and most of our civ is starving and searching for breath. I can see no other solution than build a nice shipchain to the Americans and trade like mad.

400:
3 Barb legions around Illauntanig. Our valiant Ellie destroys 2 legions, but poor Ellie has not even a narrow stripe of red left. We are compelled to disband it and buy 20 shields.
We buy a Barb horseman close to LLangollen.

420:
Our newborne Elephant destroys the last Barb legion: Illauntanig is safe. BEAVER DAM is founded on the sweet spot (4 specials).

440 to 500:
All cities busy building caravans or triremes.

520:
Carthaginians discover Astro.

540:
We discover Karakorum (Embassy with Mongols: 10 cities, 10 techs, 830g). The Mongols will have 50g. We say 'No' = war :)

560:
First trireme offshore Washington :goodjob:
Embassy with the Americans: 8 cities, 22 techs, 326g).
Silk delivered in Wahington: 492g (:) = now, that's more like it)

600:
Hides from Muddy Gardens to Washington : 144g.

620:
Muddy Gardens celebrates.
LEO'S CANAL founded (opens the gate to Carthage)

640:
Silk from Cardiff to San Francisco: 528g :D
Egypt starts building Leo.

680:
Silk from Muddy Gardens to NY: 432g

700:
We discover Bridge Building and start researching Medicine.

720:
Copper from New Sybase to Panormus: 168g.

740:
Embassy with Carthaginians: 8 cities, 23 techs, 699g.

760:
Hides from NoWow to Leptis: 296g
Silk from Rhondda to Philadelphia: 550g :)
Mongols sink our trireme.

780:
Treasury over 1000g and 20 caravans on their way to America or Carthage: I feel better.
 
Uh-oh.

I tried to load the game and got the "Failed to load game. File is not a saved game." message. I checked, and sure enough it loads in MGE, but not FW or classic. I have MGE and could continue with that, but I'm pretty sure others do not. (e.g., I believe Elephant said only 2.4.2)

Options include:
- See who can and can not continue in MGE and try it that way
- La fayette replays turns with classic (if he has it) attempting to achieve as close to the same results as possible.
- Let someone else play these turns over their own way and la fayette jumps back in for the next set of turns.
- If Lafayette does not have classic, we move on and have next player play those turns (would that mean black-clicking would be allowed? ;) )
- Something else???

Edit to add: Wonderful turns.
 
I have started to play after la fayette without problem. I have MGE only - so I do not know if everybody will be able to read it. I do not send my results yet - I am waiting for the decicion how to go on.:confused:
 
I have both versions and am moderately indifferent as to which version is played -- but would hate to lose any players. :(
 
I use Classic exclusively, although I could try downloading and installing MGE (they can coexist, right?). The major thing we lose (aside from any other Classic-only players) is ability to deal with reasonable AI Civs; MGE AIs revert quickly to Hostile despite all diplomatic attempts. We're going to need to get someone to build Apollo at some point, as this is a SPACESHIP game (reminder to those decreasing science rates and accepting off-path techs!).
 
Originally posted by la fayette

...and trade like mad.
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IMHO, the only way to go, without a shot at SSC. Twin Cities would be worth trying, too, particularly to the off-island 4xSpecial ones.


400: 3 Barb legions around Illauntanig. Our valiant Ellie destroys 2 legions, but poor Ellie has not even a narrow stripe of red left. We are compelled to disband it and buy 20 shields.

420: Our newborne Elephant destroys the last Barb legion: Illauntanig is safe.
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Neat trick!

540: We discover Karakorum (Embassy with Mongols: 10 cities, 10 techs, 830g). The Mongols will have 50g. We say 'No' = war :)
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Wasn't that bad a price... snivel, snivel, snivel...


780: Treasury over 1000g and 20 caravans on their way to America or Carthage: I feel better.
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Me too. I like the embassies, too.
 
Originally posted by Stegyre
My thoughts:
1. Working the ocean: I think I've heard of folks doing this in the other succession games, for the reason given (increasing beakers). I confess I should probably try it more often, myself. (I did give it a go in my attempt at GOTM 37: with all those fish, and very little else, who wouldn't?)
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Water tiles give 2 trade, and require no roads. But they only give one food till you get a Harbor. I've seen powerful early SSCs created around a Temple, Colosseum, Marketplace and Harbor, working exclusively ocean. Settle on Grass so you always have +1 food.


2. Masonry from the hut isn't so bad: we needed at least one tech so that Republic would appear on our choices once we got Philosophy.
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Good point. I ground my teeth too. Opens the path to Construction, but we got that elsewise.


6. I just recently noticed in my games that when I send TWO (i.e., "stacked") diplomats, the A.I. doesn't (or can't?) expel them, allowing me to set up embassies. This is probably either (a) something everyone else already knows; or (b) wrong - and my contrary observation was a fluke, but you might try it, since we should have a goodly number of dips. If I'm wrong, of course, we can also just "stack" a dip with a caravan and deliver both at the same time.
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You are not wrong; just wastes the second Dip if all you want is an embassy. If you are trying to steal techs, on the other hand...


8. Thoughts on tech path? My own priorities were getting philosophy and getting to republic, both of which we've achieved. After that, I go for trade, which we already have. After that, I go for the necessary wonder techs, which . . . we certainly don't have the same incentive for, here. If we want to focus on growth, I would think we will want banks, to celebrate up at least our better cities. If we want to focus on war, well shucks: we already have vet Eles!
:)
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We need massive research, and without an SSC that means big city science or lots of caravan deliveries. We have the city numbers to enable lots of caravans, and some nice ones we can build up big with trade routes, so we could say "both". We still lack Sanitation for Sewers; Viking was working on MonoTheism at the end of his rounds which we need for Cathedrals. Navigation and Magnetism would improve the "Celtic Shipping Lines".

We ought to sort the cities into two groups: those we develop for city science, and those we leave small as caravan builders. Hides tend to disappear as cities get larger, so keeping some Hides repeaters small should keep them going. Solo at Apolyton.Net made a map of wildcard supply locations for city building (is that too much of an "aid", La Fayette?) that could help us place cities more intelligently if we want particular supply commodities.

As to war, I'd prefer to keep out of them unless we really have to. If we stay with Classic we should be able to appease the AIs with our older tech gifts. If we adopt MGE they will likely dislike our size and band together against us no matter what we do. The more we fight, the less we focus on research, which is our real victory condition. If we do "go huntin", we should aim to capture several decent AI cities (are there such things?) quickly, then shift back to research or trade. We do need to protect our ship chains, as overseas delivery and trade routes are our best options.
 
I have installed Classic version - I am not able to read my sav from MGE - the same with la fayette's SAV - so I am waiting for your resolution what to do
1 - continue with MGE
2 - la fayette will start again his part with Classic

I do not send my results, because I had contact with French and shared maps - if we decided for two, it is better for everybody to know nothing more.
 
I currently have only classic 2.42. Of course, I understand that I can download the MGE patch from Cedric. I'd hate to make anyone replay a whole set of turns.
 
OK, here is my part.

I went in the steps of my great father La Fayette and trade like hell. In the same time I would like to find other nations – and to do something with Mongols too.

1. 780 Ad – Revolution in Bokhara – Celtic influence suspected (444g costs, 149 income), Trireme, Legion, Settler in the city. Mongols offer peace, we shared map.
2. 800 AD – Gems to Chicago - 228g.
3. 820 AD – nothing special – just sailing
4. 840 AD – nothing special – just sailing
5. 860 AD – Silk to Rusicade - 372 g., Laptis Parva, 104 g
6. 880 AD – sailing, Discover University, Silk Buffalo 30 g. find French, exchange Navigation, Seafaring, exchange maps.
7. 900 AD – Silk to Atlanta, 70g..
8. 920 AD – Hides Leptus Perva 118 g. Silk 60 g., Washington Silk 52
9. 940 AD – Exchange Engineering, Astronomy
10. 960 AD – Wine Grenoble 25g., Babylonans , wanted 150 g, reject, war/
11. 980 AD – Carthage – finish Copernicus/. Bokhara Academy was founded.
12. 1000 AD –Gold, Hides Washington, 98,106 Gold., Laptis Parva hides- 178g. Besanon 30 g.
13. 1020 AD – Silk Panoramus 50g.
14. 1040 AD – Beads Chartres 40 g., NoCol2 founded,
15. 1060 AD – Leos Canal Beads 36g. Hut – Wondering Nomads
16. 1080 AD – Founded South Observ.
17. 1100 AD – Silk Washington – 280g.
18. 1120 AD - Wool, Gems Atlanta, 280+68 g., hut – Advanced tribe – South Place, Embassz with French –23 techs, 8 cities.
19. 1140 AD – Discover Democracy – I let revolution to my successor, lost trireme
20. 1160 AD – North World founded, Silk Washington 51 g.

Trere is a lot of caravan on their way - especially to Paris. I did not went to Democracy- Disorder could be fatal - too many boats on the sea.
 
....And the techs are marching on.

Should be interesting as you WILL have to let some other civ get advanced enough to build Apollo - but will they do so in enough time for you to be able to build a ship in time and have it land? Not to mention having to get plasics, superconductor, etc. Probably have to have enough cities starting a wonder (if there are any left) so you can switch to parts... Won't it be nice if they all end up in Fundy governments before space flight? Ah - I guess you'll have to discover stuff and give it all away.

Also, you can almost bet some numbskull AI is going to build Manhattan! Could be an interesting race as the AI will start on spaceship parts at the same time, most likely.

A very delicate timing situation indeed.

Fun
 
Originally posted by Kev
Should be interesting as you WILL have to let some other civ get advanced enough to build Apollo - but will they do so in enough time for you to be able to build a ship in time and have it land? Not to mention having to get plasics, superconductor, etc.
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Well, yes and no: since SF is so darn popular, once we are ready to move into space (i.e., have SF, Pl & SC), we can "gift" SF to the other civs -- and I'd recommend gifting it to everyone at once, so that at least ONE of them should build Apollo. Then, we slam together our SS while the other civs are still trying to get the rest of the essential techs. (Okay - with this many cities, the AI will just steal them from us. Still, with such a large civ, we should have no trouble out-producing the AI.)

On a related point - something also raised in Kev's post - are we allowed to "start" wonders, as long as we never "complete" or "own" one? That IS my own usual practice for building the SS: "start" Manhattan (usually the only wonder still available by that time - that's the real value of Manhattan, IMHO), send in whatever necessary number of caravans, convert to SS-part. We will make things at least a little harder on ourselves if we disallow this, as we will only get 1/2 value for the shields saved up. (I.e., whether saved up in caravans, other units, or improvements, once we convert production to an SS part, we will lose half of the shields.)
 
Well, I guess we didn't have enough of a challenge -- now we're playing MGE.

Save attached, log later (maybe tomorrow.)
 
Originally posted by Stegyre

Well, yes and no: since SF is so darn popular, once we are ready to move into space (i.e., have SF, Pl & SC), we can "gift" SF to the other civs -- and I'd recommend gifting it to everyone at once, so that at least ONE of them should build Apollo. Then, we slam together our SS while the other civs are still trying to get the rest of the essential techs.
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I think Kev raised a good point, in that we may need to do more than just give away Space flight. We may need to do more help these other civs along so that they are productive enough to build the dang thing once we give them the tech. Perhaps at some point we wipe out the Babs so they do not distract the more productive French. Or maybe we even go empty some green cities , but not capture them, letting the French occupy them (although turn order works against us in this). We could even go improve some of the terrain of another civ so they can grow more.

On the other hand, as we get farther along, we should be careful about what techs we give away. Given the opportunity, the AI will happily toil away for centuries building Women's Suffrage, the UN, Hoover, Seti, CfC or, God forbid, Manhattan, when given the opportunity. We should do what we can to keep these late wonder techs OUT of the hands of our neighbors so that the one wonder they build is Apollo.

As far as the Caravan-Wonder-SS Parts trick, it would add another nice twist to our challenge if we disallowed it. Our civ just doesn't understand what wonders are. How could we possibly use vans to start building one, then gracefully switch to space ship parts??? ;)


One last poing: Looking above, I guess it was never discussed...are we actually allowing city bribes in this game?
 
One possibility is to destroy all civs except for one or two big ones, gift them SF, wait until one of them builds Apollo and then be ready to destroy them (except for a single size 1 city) once they do it. This might be fairly easy to do.
 
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