Noble sub-300 turn space attempt

[Fish Man]

@Fish Man The hof record for this category is only T279 which I think I can easily beat, may as well submit it, and you can't share hof saves until after you submit

Ahhh, i see, that makes sense. Carry on, then! Didn't realize you were doing it for HoF...

 

[jnebbe]

Spoiler :

Well Peter was killed this turn, I wonder what happens if I give his city back

Remember what I said about AP getting in the way? Not a huge deal though, I just turn around and kill mansa instead

T168 and I finish railroad
Put mining in Persepolis as it has a shrine, although that's only generating 15pt, perhaps the hq shouldve been placed in capital or somewhere more centrally located
Switch into slavery for a bit to make spread a bit faster. pt drops slightly, biology is closeby so I'm not afraid to whip cities down
I believe it's giving me +19 atm

I've been shuffling settlers over to this island as this is where I was going to raise the dom limit but wilhelm settles here 1st and for whatever reason I didn't want to capture that so I moved all settlers to bottom island

T174 and I finally meet the final ai

Mansa/gandhi's captured land

I have quite a few island cities now, which are all actually profitable

Going to build 5 cities here to begin raising the limit. The one thing in the back of my mind that I'm worried about is the city defenders. I know new colonies get defenders in their cities, I assume it's based on the master's units. In my tests they only got warriors defending (of course my tests were just starting a new game and messing around in WB on T0), for all I know the new colonies will have longbowmen. That will slow things down a lot, I'll have to move my army of cannons over, and it will also take 2 turns to capture vs immediately capturing with a 2-move unit.

But anyway, I just need to settle these cities in a few turns and then I can start raising limit

HQ city.
Only +4pt because most cities have all infastructure and are building research.

47 cities
~46%/56% land area
13 cities have mining, all on main continent

2 turns away from medicine, I have the GM for that, I have 2 more GS and another GE. I can bulb physics with 1 GS and basically get it back for free. I can use 2 GS for a golden age maybe? I was also wondering if using GE for space elevator would be worth it.

Liberalism is still available

 

[jnebbe]

Spoiler :

Medicine finishes and found sushi in same city as mining
Sushi spread is extremely slow as 4 of my first 8 execs failed to spread and I also switched back into caste

Due too very poor planning, HQ doesn't have wall street yet (or even a grocer!) so I'm losing several hundred gold and also beakers since a few cities need to build wealth instead of research

Build my cities and gift them all to gandhi so he makes a colony

Warrior defenders!

Disaster strikes and gandhi founds this new city literally the turn before I kill him without me realising. The method I'm using requires me to kill the original ai and then gift their capital to their colony, and then have the colony make a new colony, and so forth. This way I can keep my army at the same capital the entire time. However Joao will always be a vassal until gandhi dies, my small army is far away and I can't afford to put more hammers into making another army.
Additionally, I believe it would take 7 new colonies (11 original civs+7 colonies(?)) just to begin raising the limit, and each round of this takes a few turns. I just started this too late so I abandon any hopes of raising the limit and just need to make do with the land I do have.

Tech plan.

Finished assembly line
Then going superconductors for laboratories
Then going fusion for the expensive engine
Then rocketry+satelites
Lastly genetics+ecology+composites

At ~2000bpt, it would take 74 turns to tech all of this+10 turns for spaceship to arrive. (although in theory sushi->scientists will add a lot of beakers)
My goal was to get a top 10 hof placing but apparently that is now T225 which is just not going to happen.

I'm able to run 2 golden ages from 5 great people, I was thinking I would try to build factories->three gorge dam using the GA.

Currently 50.65%/56% -> I can grab ~61 more land tiles

Currently quite a few cities are building wealth, I'd hate to go into strike after investing into so many courthouses but it might be the best option for a fast win at this point; my raw beaker output is a lot lower than I'd like it to be

 

[pigswill]

Looking good.

Spoiler :

Your original stated intent was space victory before T300 and it looks like you will smash that. You'll probably get better feedback from people who know what they're talking about. My 2c: You'd have got a faster start if you had horses in BFC to roll over close neighbours earlier.

 

[jnebbe]

Spoiler :

I start failgolding in a few cities, a city bringing in ~60 from building wealth could bring in ~180+ if it's put into a wonder

I switch tech paths again and go towards plastics as most city's factories will be done by then

Mining is +27, sushi is +17

1st golden age started, I can start another as soon as this one ends.
The idea was to build 3gorges with GA and then use 2nd GA to continue spreading corps and then go into strike after that since all infastructure should be done and all space cities should have workshops ready by then.

Finally grab lib and plastics, capital starts 3gorges immediately. Not a bad deal

Settle my very last city bringing the grand total to 56. I could settle a couple more island cities but I'm being really cautious to not accidentally trigger domination

Silver city is done and I shuffle workers back to mainland

Ok I REALLY underestimated this wonder. Production jumps from 4k->5.2k and most of that is mining so it's not like it's super inflated from the golden age. Conveniently I've been building some markets/grocers for health/happiness which all just finished, and it lets me build research in so many more cities.
Research skyrockets from ~3200pt to ~4800pt (and I believe only half my cities are building research, I'd estimate it will cap out at maybe 6000pt?)

Spread is almost done, Mining in 45/56 cities and sushi in 35, though I don't want sushi in all island cities to avoid the added culture.

Assuming I can keep that tech rate up, I only have 22 turns of research left, though I'm not sure what order I should get everything.
The big question mark is whether I should get superconductors or fusion 1st, and also when to get rocketry. I think rocketry->fusion makes the most sense and then superconductors? I'll probably only want a couple laboratories in the main cities, and some smaller cities can build the casings/thrusters.
I want ecology to be the last tech since it's the cheapest part and then its lift off.


I wanted to get T242 win or sooner which would be top10, 22 turns of research, 10 turns for space travel, leaves 10 spare turns to finish building parts, this could actually be possible

 

[krikav]

Whenever I go to space, I always go for semiconductors first for the extra research bonus, and to make sure all cities building spaceship parts have that +50% bonus too.
Not sure about the timing about apollo, but I think that come first of all.
Fusion shortly after that and then ironworks city + some other really strong city start the engines.
Composites for casings after that and lastly ecology.
Once that is finished ironworks city is usually done with the engine and can throw together that life support easy.

Something like that... But you are playing a different game it seems.

 

[konata_LS]

Wow Lib Plastics It's cool!

TGD is strong when you have 20+ cities in a continent. Plus the bonus for IND leaders.

In terms of tech choice between Fusion or Superconductors... Admittedly, I'm not familiar with that part of game. As you may have noticed, my games usually go to military paths. Maybe some experts on Space will give you better advice .

 

[jnebbe]

Spoiler :

Going superconductors->rocketry->fusion
Then satellites->composites->genetics->ecology

Well I didn't realize you need 3 different types of GP for another GA

Superconductors finished and all space cities start laboratories, which all finish in 1 turn

Sent my remaining GM to washington's TOA, lets me build research for a few more turns instead of wealth
The 3 scientists were used to bulb fiber optics in it's entirety

3 turns till launch

BLASTOFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T227 space victory

Unfortunately this lands me outside the top 10 by 3 turns.
Very fun game, enjoyed it a lot, will see if I can grab a #1 spot in a different category!

 

[Fish Man]

Spoiler :

Going superconductors->rocketry->fusion
Then satellites->composites->genetics->ecology

Well I didn't realize you need 3 different types of GP for another GA

Superconductors finished and all space cities start laboratories, which all finish in 1 turn

Sent my remaining GM to washington's TOA, lets me build research for a few more turns instead of wealth
The 3 scientists were used to bulb fiber optics in it's entirety

3 turns till launch

BLASTOFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T227 space victory

Unfortunately this lands me outside the top 10 by 3 turns.
Very fun game, enjoyed it a lot, will see if I can grab a #1 spot in a different category!

Nice!

(Now can I have the t0 save? lol...)

 

[jnebbe]

Nice!

(Now can I have the t0 save? lol...)

 

[Fish Man]

The quest for sub-t200

Spoiler :

t130 communism. Already over 1100 bpt without a golden age. The question is...can I make it.

Spoiler :

 

[pigswill]

Looking good so far . Have you identified which cities will be building your spaceship?

 

[Fish Man]

Spoiler :

Going superconductors->rocketry->fusion
Then satellites->composites->genetics->ecology

Well I didn't realize you need 3 different types of GP for another GA

Superconductors finished and all space cities start laboratories, which all finish in 1 turn

Sent my remaining GM to washington's TOA, lets me build research for a few more turns instead of wealth
The 3 scientists were used to bulb fiber optics in it's entirety

3 turns till launch

BLASTOFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

T227 space victory

Unfortunately this lands me outside the top 10 by 3 turns.
Very fun game, enjoyed it a lot, will see if I can grab a #1 spot in a different category!

The following is just a meme and not meant as an insult, but this was basically me at the end of the game thinking of your playthrough:

Spoiler :

It's been a while, but I managed to barely squeeze a sub-t200 science victory on this, with a t186 launch and t196 (1360AD) spaceship arrival.

@konata_LS @krikav

Spoiler :

The first difference was that I tried to rush as many people as I could with war chariots, keeping Mansa alive because he could feed me techs, and Gandhi too because his territory was in an awkward position. That meant taking out everything to Washington and Pacal - this put me a bit behind in the short term due to strains on my economy, but Mutal and Washington (the city) were very important; the former built me GLH and the latter served as such a spectacular GP farm that I'm pretty sure I popped five great scientists from there by the end of the game.

In addition, I basically blocked off about 50% of the land area in the world for myself to settle with just that, meaning I could backfill in peace and not spend a single hammer on actual military/conquest until the endgame, where I finished off Mansa for his rather juicy capital and city capture gold.

Tech-wise, it was an average dash to communism. Of particular note: I Oracled civil service about 1440BC, which saved me a massive amount of time and gave me a lot of extra commerce, because that was basically 1000 beakers for free (ind + marble = Oracle cheaper than a granary), and also buro is kind of broken in a capital with double gold. I also built Stonehenge since I would need border pops in 30-odd cities...and obelisks are not bad with rep, which I also got with mids. Oh yeah, I basically spammed all the wonders this game. Every single one - mids, oracle, henge, GLH, and colossus - were necessary to keep my economy afloat and functioning relatively well enough to get to state property.

Once I got that and switched into it, that was where the fun began. I spammed workshops and cities without abandon and basically coated the map in hammers. No corps needed, no courthouses, nothing fancy - just raw hammers and modifiers netting me over 6000 beakers/turn without a golden age by the end of the game. Settling the outer islands would honestly have been a massive waste of time, so I didn't do that (and also I was just under 54%, so it would've put me over dom). After factories, which I got before electricity to savor Colossus for as long as possible, I found time to build Oxford in capital, and marked 15-16 cities or so for labs to build spaceship parts. I started a golden age around t139 and spent the last 48 turns of the game until about the spaceship was done, in a golden age - chaining the first one with Taj, then a 2xGP one, and finally a 3xGP one. TGD was a steal, built in just 4 turns in my IW city. Tech order at the end was same as yours, except I went fusion before rocketry. This is to grab the GE which keeps the golden age chain unbroken until the end of the game - and you can actually complete the spaceship just 7 turns after finishing Apollo, as I did here, so a later Apollo completion date is no big deal.

A beautiful sight to see...almost perfectly lined up build queue near the end. Rough calculations meant I successfully finished every spaceship part in 7 turns or less. Though it was painful, I've learned you usually have to bulldoze towns/plantations/other improvements to get the raw hammers needed for such efficiency, at the end.

Spoiler :

Capital and surrounding area at victory date.

Spoiler :

Launch image:

Spoiler :

Details of the capital...Oxford + buro + gold = SCIENCE.

Spoiler :

One of the best IW cities I've see...enough food to work all its tiles, and over 90 base hammers/turn even WITHOUT a golden age.

Spoiler :

By far the best I've milked a GP farm; with NE I was regularly running up to 10 scientists with the food available, and getting over 50 GPP/turn for just over half the game. And, including the one from physics, I generated ten great scientists everywhere over the course of the entire game!

Spoiler :

I tried to fill out my continent as much as possible, but it was hard juggling with economy...after state property that I libbed t130 (375AD), all such concerns safely went out the window. This means that there were less than 60 turns (56, to be exact) from the time I barely got communism, to when I launched the spaceship (and, of course, got every single tech in between). On standard speed, state property is truly unbeatable in terms of speed.

Spoiler :

Score, after I got greedy and built most of the late-game wonders/finished the tech tree just because I could.

Spoiler :

Thanks for the map, @jnebbe - it wasn't the most OP I've seen, but it was up there. Had a lot of fun, and with just 3 turns left to spare until the t200 cutoff, it was actually quite a nailbiter! If I was financial, this would've been 10 turns faster. Perhaps the HoF should have a special "no financial" (and/or "no Inca") category just to give some of the other leaders a chance .

 

[krikav]

Pure madness!

 

[konata_LS]

Haven't checked this thread until @ Fish Man reminded me. It seems there are some good games here!

@Fish Man
Wow sub-200t space is impressive! The massive "backyard" for you to settle is so nice, peaceful expansion without being disturbed.

Unlike AI Mansa on Deity, it looks like AI Mansa on Noble didn't help you much in research, so you just captured his juicy capital and finished him off

It's interesting to compare your Space write-up with others', because you prefer SP while people like @ Anysense and OP choose corps. Maybe SP and corps both have their pros & cons in a Space victory and the players must make a choice? ...

@jnebbe
Congrats on your victory! Nice game for your first try.

@ Fish Man 's advice would be what you need if you want to move up in difficulty, because @ Fish Man managed to move from Prince to Deity within only several months. Following his advice may not garantee your first win on Deity, but it'll at least help you in the challenges at HoF, or inspire you to 10+ victories at Immortal in a row.

 

[Fish Man]

Haven't checked this thread until @ Fish Man reminded me. It seems there are some good games here!

@Fish Man
Wow sub-200t space is impressive! The massive "backyard" for you to settle is so nice, peaceful expansion without being disturbed.

Unlike AI Mansa on Deity, it looks like AI Mansa on Noble didn't help you much in research, so you just captured his juicy capital and finished him off

It's interesting to compare your Space write-up with others', because you prefer SP while people like @ Anysense and OP choose corps. Maybe SP and corps both have their pros & cons in a Space victory and the players must make a choice? ...

@jnebbe
Congrats on your victory! Nice game for your first try.

@ Fish Man 's advice would be what you need if you want to move up in difficulty, because @ Fish Man managed to move from Prince to Deity within only several months. Following his advice may not garantee your first win on Deity, but it'll at least help you in the challenges at HoF, or inspire you to 10+ victories at Immortal in a row.

Thanks for the compliments!

AI Mansa actually gave me iron working and feudalism, which were pretty big (I got monarchy and other stuff from Gandhi).

SP is far superior to sushi on standard speed. On marathon, however, it’s a different story. I may play through the noble marathon game floating around on the front page to demonstrate.

 

[Fish Man]

Pure madness!

I am usually pretty out of my mind .

Also, this may be better for a separate thread, but...does anyone know why BUFFY mod keeps crashing the game? It says something like "the application was forced to close in an unexpected way", and I have to restart the game; it happens arbitrarily, but usually when I end turn or try to talk to another leader. It's very annoying, and I'd like to not waste 2-3 minutes reopening the game (and more replaying lost turns) every 10. Besides my chronic reloading/carelessness syndrome, that's partly what accounts for the many sessions, btw.

 

[pigswill]

I must admit that I haven't had any problems with Buffy crashing the game, maybe I've just been lucky, maybe its something to do with installation, hopefully you'll get a more informative answer from someone who understands software better than I do. I'd be interested to see you play through a noble marathon game. I suspect that map type may be as important as game speed: Terra for dense packed workshops, big and small for corporate resources.

 

[krikav]

@Fish Man

I remember I had alot of troubles with buffy crashing.
It was at the worst when I played forum games and tried to compare openings (thus reloading alot).
I had less crashes when I was playing BOTM where I simply left the game on most of the time and not reloading at all.
This made me come to the conclusion that there is some functionallity in buffy, which is scanning for cheating (which in HOF reloading previously played turns is) and that that functionallity is buggy somehow.
So if you are reloading alot, then you probably experience the same buggy functionality.

I did so many things that I don't know what part of the solution that fixed the problem. First I did a completely clean install, and that seemed to help alot, although I still had those crashes, but the frequency was waaaay lower.
This last time I had a hdd failure and was forced to reinstall windows and everything else, and after that I have had no crashes at all.

Here is a thread from when I did that clean install, I went back to that thread for guidance the second time around when I was installing everything fresh. I don't think it's an exhaustive checklist though.
Here is one step that I recall.
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php?show=vista