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Nobles' Club 221: Augustus Caesar of the Romans

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by AcaMetis, Feb 2, 2020.

  1. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @Imploding
    Spoiler :

    Absolutely no reason to wait! :D
    In fact, I think that waiting for construction have been too much. And absolutely after the first catapult is on the scene I think it's gotime.
    Throw a catapult to cause collateral and all prets get supreme odds.

    Don't know if you have seen my spoilers yet, but I went at him straight with prets, and that went OK too, my followup was worse though...
     
    Imploding likes this.
  2. Imploding

    Imploding Warlord

    Joined:
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    Gender:
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    Deity NH

    Spoiler T98 - T :

    I agree @krikav it's go time!

    Yeah! I like my odds in this war!
    Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG
    I'm trying to preserve some catapult..
    I Also need som happyness.. will probably whip down my cap next turn and stay at size 7.
    T98 - Cathy goes for Charly! perfect!
    T100 - I keep marching towards sulis cap.. (I think).. grab 2x chariots on the way.. that gives me a GG. Going to upgrade catapults to CR2 and bombard.. I'm also first to CoL! Suli got Music! haha..
    Hm.. i kind of put a big OF into NE in cap by accident.. I do want some more failgold but i can build Sheweggedi!
    T101 - Cap is located! and much closer than i anticipated! It got all the wonders! TSOZ, Part, Mids! Might place NE there? I'm using CoL missionary to scout Cathy a bit.. I have been to sloppy with scouting. Also thinking about going for her next.. she got TGlighthouse.
    T104- bombarding cap.. looks like he lost his shrine to Charly.. Suli sacks some units to retake. They end up making peace. I will probably go for Charly after the suli war! I got asked to join buddism by Joao and I go for it.. Never found a good time for a switch so might as well do it now.
    T105 - i grab cap!
    T110 - Suleiman is no more!

    Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG

    The dust settles and everyone is cooling down.. Boudica is still figthing Joao! He got MoM! That could be a nice pickup.. Because.. i can get charly to attack boudica! And take out joao.. Hm..
    Need to take a break anyways and that is probably good.. need to think here.

    Other screens

    Diplo
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

    Tech
    Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG
    Wonderlist!

    Civ4ScreenShot0013.JPG

    BTW i just got CS I have not done any switching..

    Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG

    I really wonder what would be the best play here..

    Help?
    I'm attaching saves i juse buffy 005 mod.

     

    Attached Files:

    elementoffear likes this.
  3. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    This has got to be one of the best NC maps in a long time! :D

    @Imploding
    Spoiler :

    Me and @sampsa got to aproximatly the same position as you are in now, although from different directions.
    He cooled down and teched toward cuirs and then roflstoped everyone.

    I went full retard with pretorians and got a nice position, but had to abandon the game because it was abit to tedious.

    With some nice land secured, and with such nice wonders I think that it makes logic sense to just cruise abit and get a crushing tech advantage.
    But zerging down the AIs with pretorians+catapults is also fun though. ;)

     
  4. elementoffear

    elementoffear Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Messages:
    194
    @Excal , Thank you for the save and writeup! I used it to take a look at your core cities, and your initial tech path from the post, and figured out why I am failing miserably. Changed my strategy and made a new personal record!
    In short
    Spoiler :
    Build only the essential buildings, kill everyone with Praetorians ASAP [/SOPILER]
     
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  5. earthy

    earthy Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2019
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    finally got around to this one. gave it a try on deity

    Spoiler t50 :

    agri-bw-tw-pottery, then ah-writing. Kind of wish I got sailing for the trade routes.

    t50.jpg


    Spoiler t75 :

    teched aesth but no one has alphabet for trade. kind of a bummer. was going to go masonry, settle my 6th, and start doing failgold things, but mehmed started plotting t74 and he has no land targets or worst enemy. I'm probably dead without archery/metal right? it's possible he wants to dogpile Joao or Boudica but I doubt it.

    t75.jpg
     
  6. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @earthy
    Spoiler :

    It's a tough situation to find yourself in, w/o archery and w/o metal. :/

    One thing you can do, is to spam a few warriors for lure, that way you can sacrifice them, making an incomming stack zig-zag it's way, buying valuable turns.
    Since capital is on a hill archers should have a good day against axes. Probably swords too.
    One thing you have absolutely done wrong here, is that you have not scouted Suliemans land yet, you have had OB for a long time.

    Sooo...
    OB with sulieman if you don't already have it, and send that closest worker there asap to try find his SoD, or to see if things are calm in the nearest city.
    Tech archery asap, working coast or whatever you need to get it fast.
    Build baitwarriors.
    Keep an eye open for IW-trade.

    *Edit* Nice T50 situation btw! Good micro! */Edit*
     
    earthy likes this.
  7. earthy

    earthy Warlord

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    Spoiler t90 :
    I took @krikav advice and scouted out Sully. I couldn't see any stack nearby so I started thinking maybe it's not me(yeah right). Economy was pretty strong so I was able to 1 turn hunting and archery and start pumping out some archers. Boudica/Joao then made peace and everyone started plotting :shifty:. Just as I'm about to end a turn, out of the corner of my eye I notice this bastard is coming in for a sneak attack through Catherine's land..

    t86.jpg



    Moved 3 archers from Rome(would have lost the city if I didn't notice that turn), and they held their own on flatground. He was reinforcing with 5-6 more units so I sacrificed a warrior to buy some time. All of a sudden the man himself, the one and only Holy Emperor Charlemagne, decided that he'd had enough of Sully's warmongering. Charly declares, and Sully moves his little stack home to deal with more pressing matters. Thanks for being helpful for once Charly :thumbsup:


    t90.jpg


    Trades wise things are going okay now since they got Alpha(though t87 alpha seems really late for ai?). I self teched Myst, traded Aesth for IW+Poly from Boudica, Alpha from Khmer, then gave Aesth to Catherine when she demanded it. Researched PH, then gave Charly Aesth + Poly for monarchy. Got wine from Charly, and temporarily gave Catherine Marble for gems(deal will cancel in 3-4 turns when my culture gets the gems anyway)


    The tentative plan is whip some praets and axes into Parthenon failgold once iron is improved, tech construction, and then maybe take out Catherine? Might be a little ambitious, but she has both Mids and GLH and I really want them both. I also think it's worth having a standing army here even if I can't take out Catherine alone. Maybe I can work some bribe magic, or just dogpile on one of my neighbors and snipe some land when they're distracted. Hopefully the failgold comes in time to get me to MC/Machinery(cheap forges will be real nice with gold and gems), and then I can go for trebs.

     
  8. earthy

    earthy Warlord

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    Spoiler to t143 :

    Whipped a bunch of praets into Parthenon and got some nice failgold. With construction in I got some catapults out and slowly went for Catherine.

    t108 we go in and she's not ready. Looking good so far. Couldn't find an army earlier so I don't think she has too much.

    t108.jpg


    I smash the Iron hoping it's the only one, and she starts spamming a ton of HA. Seems to work for the time being(but she shortly trades for Iron)

    50ad.jpg


    After St Petersburg I was hoping I could take Moscow and she would capitulate, giving me a buffer between the other AI. I put a few turns into Feud, then trade machinery for it while taking out Moscow. After bombarbing, the CR3 praet had 80%+ odds against a full health longbow!

    325aad.jpg


    Hell of a city

    moscow.jpg


    I take Yekaterinburg to the south of Moscow and she still doesn't want to cap. I know I need 1 more city before she caps, but Charly now drops to cautious and there's a serious risk that she peace vassals to him or he gets bribed in with engineering. It hurts, but I give him Eng for COL + 100g, and then beg 10g from him. I bombard Rostov a few turns and then sacrifice most of my catapults to take it. With Rostov comes capitulation!

    660ad.jpg


    Haven't fallen behind too badly in tech, but man everyone hates me. Every turn someone different was asking me to join their war and I couldn't figure out how to avoid it since no one liked me to begin with. I have a G.Sci waiting, and I'm thinking about using him for a golden age. I have lots of civic options now with mids and shwedagon paya, so it might be worth avoiding the anarchy. Doesn't look like I can beat Sully to Lib anyways. I also might have to give Boudica some tech to get her off of Joao. Looks like he's getting his ass kicked fighting her and the Khmer.

    tech.jpg

     
  9. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @earthy
    Spoiler :


    I made this when Charly won the AI survivour tournement, fitting for your game too! ;)
    charlemange.jpg



    Moscow was really nice! And sweet with a vassal too. Diplomacy can become wrecked when taking a vassal.
    Not always possible, but it's good to study who hates who pretty early so you know who to team up with and who to annoy.
    Sometimes it's also 100% safe to join a war, as the AI you DoW on can't reach you through the warmongerers.

    Another nice trick is if you don't want to anger Boudica, and you still don't want to DoW her worst enemy Monty, then you can beg from Monty so that Monty gets a peace treaty with you, that way Boudica can't ask you to join that war, and you preserve diplomacy with her for longer.
     
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  10. earthy

    earthy Warlord

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    @krikav that's a great picture! :goodjob:

    Spoiler regarding the game :
    I think I just got a bit too tunnel visioned on the war that wasn't going so well and neglected the diplo a bit too much. I totally could have stopped trading with or declared on Joao since I wasn't getting anything from him anyways >.<. Really the timings have just been messing with me all game though. Not sure if it's cause deity or something else. They all got alpha so late that I was basically 12 turns early to Aesth, Felt like I had cats at a reasonable date, but then Catherine already had LB's from the second city onward and way more troops than I anticipated.. I also thought I would get to engineering early enough for praets to still be relevant, but now the ai all have maces and I wonder why i went for eng! (well, except charlie ;) )
     
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  11. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @earthly
    Spoiler :

    I experience that alot too, when the wars start I get into a daze and do alot of stupid decisions and ignore important things.
    If you get out in the other side of the war fog with a bunch of sweet cities oftentimes it doesn't matter though.

    Taking a break right before a DoW can help, but who wants to take a break just when the fun is about to start?! ^_^

    T106 Catapults is not at all too late. I don't know exacly but I recall that I have T100 as a benchmark for a catapult DoW, but a catapult attack is not as fragile and timing dependant as say... a HA rush.
    With enough production I think it's perfecly doable to just continue with prets+catapults in this map and even defeat the last AIs if they get to rifling.

    Looking at your 175BC and 50AD screenshots (You know you can change so it only shows turns in bug, right?)
    It looks like things went abit slow, 9 turns between those screenshots?
    Did you bombard Yakutsk? I don't think I would have bothered, just suicide one catapult (With collateral promotion, "barrage"?) to soften them up. and roll in with the prets, that way perhaps the rest of the crowd can steamroll onwards and start to bombard a city further in while the injured units catch up.


     
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  12. earthy

    earthy Warlord

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    @krikav thanks for the BUG tip, that was driving me nuts!

    Spoiler t245 end :
    regarding the war with Catherine, I bombarbed with one cat, threw one in, and then took it. I think the big delay there was from getting wrecked trying to move to the next city. I left the archers + 1 praet behind, sent two to smash the iron, and sent the rest + 3 cats towards the next city. The stack was way too small and she smashed into it, killing a few praets and bringing everything down to a few HP. I had to stop and wait for a healer + reinforcements.

    I played the rest of the game today but didn't take too many screenshots. After taking Catherine I told her to research Nat while I teched paper. Put a bulb into Edu, next guy used for a golden age, and then traded her edu for Nat, libbed Mt.. Charly dogpiled on Joao so I quickly took out Sully with cuirs while they were all distracted. Joao vassaled to Charly, and this angered Khmer+Celts who both DOW on them. I joined the dogpile and capped Charly/Joao next!

    t191.jpg


    From here It was only a matter of time before Celts/Khmer declare on me, so when Boudica goes red fist I strike first! Up here we have four cities surrounded by friendly culture:

    cheap1.jpg


    I declare, and instantly Raze Lagos. I take Khazak, and return it to it's rightful owner. All of a sudden Joao's culture stretches to the other two cities, and I can now take all four cities on the first turn!


    cheap2.jpg


    Boudica brings Khmer into the war, but then she uses AP end the war vote.. I go along with it because I remember how bad that hurts :X. I get a peace treaty with Boudica, but now Khmer is fair game!

    peace.jpg


    He capitulates within a few turns, and it seems like Boudica should be no problem. Unfortunately she hits rifling 1 turn before the peace treaty expires, and these Cuirassier are not upgraded properly to deal with that! I send in the hoarde anyways and whip like a madman, often throwing away 3 cuir for every 1 rifle. It's slowgoing, but eventually I raze enough of her cities that she gives in. Catherine even took a few cities herself with her Cossack! Not a great end date and some really sloppy play, but still a fun game!


    t245.jpg
     

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  13. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Nice!
    Congrats to the win @earthy !
     

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