Nobles' Club CLVII: Mansa Musa of Mali

[Izuul]

Good lord the start.

 

[lymond]

snip...

Good lord, it's a V sighting!!! Where you beeeeen?!

 

[elitetroops]

Mansa and superstrong start! Looked good enough that I decided to go OCC on this one.

IMM 1410AD UN:

Spoiler :

SIP, shame the gold is not in my BFC..

Worker techs first, then alpha and math, traded math for BW and went Oracle->CS. Alpha was a stupid delay, probably should have skipped it. Next target was Drama, Globe up by 500BC, followed by Edu, Oxford up and running in 150AD. No more national wonders.

First GP was GS for academy, second an unlucky prophet (used for GA) and third a lucky engineer.

My original plan was to lib astro, but the AI was just sooo sloooow. I teched ahead a bit to eventually lib physics in 760AD.

Spoiler :

Could have gone further and libbed electricity or radio, but at that time I found it useful to let my opponents get a bit closer to lib. I realized I need to do something for a bit of diplo points. What could be more fun than a jolly shared war?

Spoiler :

Declared myself obviously also. Then a couple of turns later Gandhi called the holy war AP vote and we all had a happy shared war club!

I would be up against Gandhi in the UN votes. Getting Vicky's, Biz's and Willem's votes was not going to be a problem. But I realized that would not be enough. This meant that my only choice was to befriend Monty.... He was pleased and +9 by the time I approached Mass Media, but I couldn't see any way to get him any higher except teching to Fascism.

At that time I finally got some useful trades. Feud, Guilds, Banking, Economics, Corp, RP, Chemistry and even part of Steam Power as Willem got there before me. Then suddenly out of nowhere I got the extra +2 with Monty. One more for resources and "You have shared your technological discoveries with us" went up to +2. Didn't even know that could happen... But he had reason to, as I was gifting him everything he could accept almost every turn to eventually get him up to Fascism as well.

Rushed the UN and switched into Nationhood for the last needed bonus point with Biz and a few turns later, close election, won by 3 votes!

Spoiler :

My one city:

Spoiler :

Didn't whip it a single time during the entire game. The pic is from the end of the game when I was running Nationhood, most of the game the beakers were higher in bureau. At it's peak, during the GA, it was at slightly over 500/turn.

My mighty graph:

Spoiler :

Was a fun game, learned some new diplo tricks again. Thanks for the map dalamb!

 

[Izuul]

Nice game Elite. You've inspired me to try that except I'll go for a different VC. Is there any way to turn the actual OCC option on here?

 

[dalamb]

Custom Scenario lets you set all the options the way you like, except huts and advanced start.

 

[dalamb]

So, I suggest we put the map type out of map spoiler.

Hmm. IIRC some people don't want to know the map type. It's structured so that there's a spoiler-within-a-spoiler; the outer spoiler is supposed to just state the script and parameters, while the inner one talks about the edits.

However, people have previously asked for certain things to be put outside the spoiler, such as those rare occasions when we use a different map size.

Maybe we should structure it so if there's something a little unusual we go (no actual spoiler info below)

Spoiler unusual map script :

script type, parameters (plus size if it's different from normal).

Spoiler map edits :

Confessions

 

[Izuul]

Immortal OCC

Spoiler :

Managed to Oracle CS around 1400BC. Could've gotten it earlier going for Math bulb but I didn't want to stake my game on CS Oracle so I used the GS for early academy. Getting Bureau that early allowed me to get a BCs Oxford and I stopped around there for now.

Lack of resources in the surrounding area makes this map a bit tough for OCC. Early happy is pretty decent but health is an issue. Looks like I struck out on strategic resources too so I'm gonna try OCC space. I've never attempted it before so I need to do some research and planning. Biology for National Park feels important to get my city growing again so I might race out to that.

Just not sure what kind of BPT I can get here to research space techs.

 

[elitetroops]

@Izuul

Spoiler :

Never done occ space above emperor, but I was also thinking that on this map it could work. Happy is no issue with globe, but health is a problem here. You also don't get very many resources to trade for health, probably need to buy some. Luckily gold is never an issue on occ.

My experience with occ space is that it's mostly a race for the internet. If you can grab that you are in good shape, if not good luck researching all the space techs. Don't remember the best research path, has been a while.

I think I'd want TGL here if heading for space. Do you still have a shot on that?

I think it also can be worth it to keep the AI busy warring. In my game Gandhi settled the bottleneck to my lands, which made me immune to any wars. Hopefully he gets there first in your game as well!

 

[dalamb]

Monarch, Epic, H+E, no barbs, no tech brokering

To 2600 BC with dotmap:

Spoiler :

SIP. The nearby huts gave a scout and some money, and the scout eventually popped more money and Bronze Working. Met Gandhi and Monty so far. Tech'd Ag > Pott > AH (BW popped) > Fish > sailing in 1. Built Worker > warriors > whipped granary > warriors > chopped worker. Now chopping a settler while building more warriors.

Spoiler dotmap :

I figure on settling south for the horses and crabs (orange) first. Then maybe west (red) for the gold and fish. I'm not real happy with most of the other locations. I plan to ignore the isthmus (black and further to the SW) until something useful gets revealed down there in that otherwise very poor territory.

 

[vranasm]

Good lord, it's a V sighting!!! We you beeeeen?!

well I didn't ever disappeared i just stopped posting

still waiting for next good game from firaxis which will upper traffic from me...

 

[dutchfire]

Spoiler :

Emperor. I am now at cavalry+rifles and knocking down Gandhi. Stalin and Monty are backwards and have been at war. I joined the war on Monty. Gandhi has some island cities, not sure if I want to capture them, or just cap him. I'd like to get most of his mainland though, and build FP there. Then the question is what to do next. I need to go through either Monte or Stalin to get to Willem, Viccy and Bismarck, who are technologically on par. Maybe I'll try bribing them into war. I hope I can quickly cap Monte, he could be helpful in future wars. Conquest looks easiest.

Spoiler :

Decided that conquest was too tedious, so I capped Gandhi and just went for space, finished in 1916 AD. I was technologically ahead, but Willy, the English and Bismarck were getting some techs I did not have, so I decided to head straight for the internet. After the internet, I self-researched the remaining space techs and won. Easy game. The map type also means you don't have to worry about defence at all.

 

[dalamb]

To 1440 or 1505 (depending on your point of view)

Spoiler :

Decided that conquest was too tedious, so I capped Gandhi and just went for space, finished in 1916 AD. I was technologically ahead, but Willy, the English and Bismarck were getting some techs I did not have, so I decided to head straight for the internet. After the internet, I self-researched the remaining space techs and won. Easy game. The map type also means you don't have to worry about defence at all.

My sentiments exactly.

I also tech'd to cavalry. Then I conquered Gandhi at 1350, made peace with Bismark (who Gandhi had bribed in against me) and went on to attack Monty. I got tired in 1505 of a series of get bashed by catapults, defeat stack with the few not too badly damaged, heal up, face another stack. Had to do it once when attacking Delhi, losing too many units to take the city, but grumbled, backed up, made more units, and tried again. But once was enough. Monty sure does build a lot of units, some of which were musketmen by this point. I'm sure somebody with a different attitude would have capped him eventually, but its just not fun for me. When I've taken a break, if I come back to this game at all, I'll go back to 1440 and take the peaceful route. With two territories I should be able to outtech and outproduce everyone.

 

[dalamb]

Sigh:

Spoiler :

During the brief period when I could see Willem's research, he was techning 50-100% faster than me. I'm still going for space, but he may beat me.

 

[guspasho]

Spoiler :

Are you guys building your cities with the food in the second ring? Particularly that gold city. And how do you get that city up and running quickly?

 

[dmd175]

Hello CFCers
I had to put down Civ4 in late 2013 for work (few mod games like RFC and Sengoku but last in February) and just repicked Civ4 up a few weeks ago on paternity leave. It's a great thing to do at 3 AM when the kid won't sleep!

Anyway, this looked like a great game.
In 2013 I was a noble/prince player and this time went for Monarch. I played 3 recent monarch games on small v. standard world, (rolled Shaka, Shaka, Ethiopia) and otherwise all random settings and won (space, dom, space). They were in the 1900s so if I can hang with monarch I have to win earlier (better city specialization, and less wonder building/more military needed).

Mansa Musa spoilers: please comment on my decisions

Spoiler :

The map

Spoiler :

• I played 2 x 15 turn sets.
• Research path: Ag-AH-BW, figuring I should use the corn and cows as early as possible. Went for BW, knowing their UU is archery, but no bronze.
• Next tech decision? Pottery for cottages, or fish for the cities W and E, or IW to see resources, or hunt/archery for UU? Leaning toward potery to start growing those.
• Dot map/city placement? I'm thinking to W and E to share some tiles, but in the prelim positions the city to W gets a fish but does not fully use the river. City to E does get fish but does have a ton of overlap, and I can get those fish with another city. I'm often in C3C mode of getting perfect 21 BFCs for each city and figure this is a good game to work on overlap.
• build order: so far warrior, warrior, settler. I need work on early game so thoughts? Did 2 warriors b/c capital was small and I wanted to spawnbust a bit.
• worker actions: I went to 1) farm corn, 2) mine gems, 3) pasture cows. Now I don't have a specific action except could road or chop. My worker actions could use buffing, so what would be highest yield next action until I can build a cottage? My default would be to road toward next city site. Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[dutchfire]

@dmd

Spoiler :

Techs: You don't need iron here at all, there are no close enemies. Get out enough warriors to fogbust and you won't have barbs.
I'd go with pottery next. First build in city 2 could be a granary.
Note: you don't have culture yet, so it is best to found cities which don't need a border pop to be useful.

 

[Izuul]

Well my Immortal OCC Space bid ended like this:

Spoiler :

I was 1T from launching and couldn't figure out how to do anything about Gandhi. I might replay this one from the early stages (maybe right after CS Oracle) and see if i can do better. I never bothered with the Internet - it didn't seem like it would help a great deal under the circumstances. I would've beaten everyone else to space - just couldn't beat Gandhi's culture bid and couldn't get anyone at war with him that could actually hurt him.

I have some ideas on how i may be able to improve though.

 

[dalamb]

1927 AD space victory, with less than half the score(s) I got in the two Nobles-level Sury wins. So I can win Monarch, but it's harder. And not as much fun...

Spoiler :

Once I gave up on conquest I just focused on teching to space as quickly as I could. But there were some problems:

• I kept getting espionage missions against me, including several well-poisonings, so I built security bureaus for the extra protection, and researched communism to build intelligence agencies to boost my espionage points. Eventually buildings like hospital and recycling put an end to that problem, but it was very annoying for a while.
• Stalin declared on me around the time I was working on Apollo. But I'd built up artillery, infantry, and tanks in Niani, my city at the neck between my land and Gandhi's, so wiped out his stack fairly easily but tediously. He accepted a peace treaty after a couple of turns.
• There were also VERY UNFUN global warming events. I haven't seen them in most games I've played; I'm not sure why I had so many in this one.
• Willem was building spaceship parts around the same time I was. He had been techning faster than me for a while, so I was a bit worried. Fortunately several other AIs dogpiled him, which I imagine slowed him down quite a bit.

I may go back to Noble for the next one; I slogged through this one but didn't enjoy it much.

 

[dmd175]

Clearly a map easier than usual, though it's fun to do well at a higher level than I am used to

Spoiler :

Because of FIN, great start, left alone/isolated from war/no barbs (easy spawnbust), good trade partner with Gandhi

Spoiler :

Nicely ahead in tech, likely due to FIN and trading with Gandhi
Could go for my earliest Lib probably ever (could be ~900AD)

Spoiler :

I've made heavy heavy use of the whip due to rich food

One large Hindu block among those that we know (2 civs still out), however Willem and Monty warring

Problems:

• little military, but not needed because isolated, no barbs; however, rivals may look to attack
• b/c not much military I have not specialized cities much. I should build a GPF but capital likely best, or maybe Bulgar would be next best.
• not a clear end game plan; need to decide conq/dom (which may be a pain to reach everyone given these snaky continents) v. e.g. diplo (could be possible here, rarity for me, given the 3 of the 4 other civs I know are friendly/peaceful/peaceful, though I feel I could in intermediate term roll on Gandhi
• need to scout world/oceans
• I'm moving toward stone in SW to build wonders; however I skipped some early wonders (only taking Col, TGL, MoM -- and b/c no one was close to the techs even though I didn't have marble,etc)

 

[dmd175]

GS advice?

Spoiler :

Already have academy in capital, 129 bpt. Next highest cities ~30 bpt.

I could bulb Compass, settle, or save.

I usually end up saving them for golden ages, but I feel this may not be the strongest play. Advice?

Spoiler :