Nobles' Club CLXI: Zara Yaqob of Ethiopia

[dalamb]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Zara of Ethiopia, whom we last played in NC CXV. The Ethiopians start with Hunting and Mining.

• Traits: Zara is Creative and Organized. Creative gives free +2 to culture in all cities along with cheap Libraries, Theaters, and Coliseums. Organized slashes city upkeep costs and offers cheap Courthouses, Lighthouses, and Factories. It's a powerful pair of traits that allows for fast and easy expansion in the early game.
• The UB: The Stele, a Monument with +25% culture. Sort of redundant alongside Zara's Creative trait, but it may help a cultural push.
  
  
  
  
• The UU: The Oromo Warrior, a Musketman with an extra first strike, immunity to first strikes, and Drill I and II. This is a pretty potent combination on an otherwise weak unit; Oromo/Cannon wars are a good way to crush your enemies.
  
  

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

2 custom continents, random leaders.

Spoiler edits :

Regenerated to get certain resources reasonably nearby, then added one corn when we got a low-food capital. Ensured all AI had a strategic resource. I don't think any AI has too much territory into which to expand unopposed, but I've been wrong before.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

• 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
• 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
• 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
• 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
• 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
• End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 161 Zara Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[dalamb]

Reserved.

 

[Izuul]

1S looked some-what intriguing at first glance to get even more river tiles, but after closer inspection it doesn't look like there's much in the fog to be gained by moving, and certainly not enough to justify moving off a PH.

 

[byang08]

Gonna try this on emperor/normal.

 

[dutchfire]

Scout N-NW, settle in place, tech agriculture and build a worker seems the logical start.

I would like to try for culture, but haven't done that in some time. I think a cottaged capital, a great artist farm and 1 or 2 more cottage cities are the usual approach. Then stop research at Liberalism (Free Speech)? Or earlier, or later?
Try to get as many religions as possible in your borders, but let someone else found them?

Capital looks production poor (hidden metal or horse might help).
Normally I would/might settle a city 3E, to help the capitals cottages. I assume I do that here as well, but that city will probably not be a good culture candidate, right? Since it will lose most of its tiles to the capital in the end.

 

[Mikehendi]

I am playing this as well on Emperor, trying to achieve a cultural victory. I'm making another let's play video out of this one by the way, hope to get the first round up tonight (european tonight )
(EDIT: had my upload laptop crash and lost about all video material except the first one, which was already uploaded. sorry!)

Settling 1SE certainly looks attractive as well if you want to go early wonders --> cottages, lot's of river tiles, possibly more food in the fog, and 3 minable hills before BW (there seems to be another unforested hill in the southern fog).

 

[elitetroops]

I'd move scout S-SE. Most likely SIP, but if scout finds something really good, then 1SE could also be an option. Has to be really good to make up for the lost hammer, so doubt it..

I'm considering giving this a go at deity. Would be my first attempt at deity culture. But it will have to wait a week or two, too busy with RL stuff right now.

 

[Ironlungs76]

1802 Culture victory on IMM.

Score:

Spoiler :

Thoughts on the map:

Spoiler :

Stone and Marble within easy reach

Built GW, Mids, Taj, MoM, GLib, Sistine, UoS, Spiral Minaret and a few other minor ones and expanded peacefully to 14 cities.

Saladin and WvO both were equally large (Sal at 16 and WvO at 14). All 3 of us had a Jewish love-in with the AP bonuses and I was out teching them on the way to an earlyish Lib given the expansion rate. Took Nationalism from Lib, had a saved Great Engineer that I rushed the Taj with and civic switched to Rep, Free Speech, Pacifism & Caste.

Spammed Temples everywhere and built 3 lots of Cathedrals in my 3 main cities (Judaism, Confucianism and Taoism).

Sat back and clicked End Turn a lot running 100% Culture and Great Artists for the vast majority of the time since swapping Civics.

It's a cakewalk Culture victory IMO

edit: oh and I moved Setler 1S giving up the PH start for more riverside. Not sure how beneficial this was given I stopped teching at 900ADish

 

[dalamb]

Glad to see several people going for culture. I had thought of proposing it as a theme for this time around given the Stele, but we haven't really had a tradition of "challenges" or "themes" in the series except the 2 OCCs (Peter last cycle IIRC, and Gandhi this).

 

[Ironlungs76]

Glad to see several people going for culture. I had thought of proposing it as a theme for this time around given the Stele, but we haven't really had a tradition of "challenges" or "themes" in the series except the 2 OCCs (Peter last cycle IIRC, and Gandhi this).

Those Steles are fantastic for Culture. When they are combined with

Spoiler :

AP bonuses, Sistine and Spiral Minaret as I managed to get the Culture per turn is insane. Aksum was kicking out over 700/turn towards the end (no idea if this is any good or not but it sure felt like it was!)

I was half tempted to HA rush WvO but there's so much room and nice friendly neighbours that I really didn't want to upset matters and deal with AP diplo hits.

 

[byang08]

Space 1919

Spoiler :

Fairly easy map, culture would probably have been the fastest way.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

1854 Culture victory on Emperor, Huts and Events (Supposed to be Huts only!)

Spoiler :

SIP, built the AP and the Great Artist Wonders only. Founded Judaism, Christianity and Islam with WvO spreading Buddhism to me. Would have been earlier apart from an annoying war with Saladin and forgetting to build the Hermitage

 

[aitkensam]

1555AD Culture Emperor NHNE

Spoiler :

SIP (425%) then 3E1S (425%) and 4W2N (325%) for my 3 legendary cities. Probably too much overlap but couldn't see any better sites.
6 cities, 640AD Lib.
Mids, HG, GLib, Sistine, Parth, MoM, Taj.
4 religions (Hinduism (Sal), Christianity (WvO), founded CoL and Tao).
16 Great Ppl - GA*6, GE*1, GP*1, GM*1, GS*7! (Merchant was from Econ after turning off research...)

Is it advisable to avoid GLib on Culture games? (I got some bad rolls for Great People. Lots of 70/30 GA/GS that went GS)

 

[MasterofDisasta]

Hi all. I've been getting back into Civ 4 over the last few months and looking to participate in some of these Forum Games more actively - previously I've just been a hardcore lurker.

Playing this one on Immortal. I've had a good win rate on Emperor so I'm trying to climb the next rung up the ladder. I'm going to play fairly slow (at least for the early game) and document my thoughts here to help my play. I would love any feedback on the weaknesses in my play or decision making. Feel free to give advice on the write-up as well - I've never done one of these before.

With that intro here I go:

Spoiler :

Initial start made me think settle in place for the extra hammer. I moved scout 1 South then 1 SE to check for anything else good then committed to settling in place.

Initial Tech choice seemed obvious: Agri to improve the corns.
Initial build was worker while working the corn.

2nd Tech: Bronze Working. Lots of forests to chop and lots of food to whip with. Nothing else pressing seemed like an obvious choice.

After finishing worker I grew while building a warrior. Improved corn 1W of city.

Improved 2nd corn, grew to size 3 and then started on a settler. I stopped here to ponder my decisions. I am 1 turn from BW. I must decide next tech, how to produce settler, and where to place settler.

I'm thinking of taking a shot at a culture victory since this seems to be a good practice map for it and I am not experienced with it. Surrounding land was place for good cottage cities, both wonder resources, and little AI cramping (I've only met Willem and still haven't found his city).

Since rapid expansion does not appear necessary I think I will shoot for Pyramids. I'll settle a 2nd city near the stone and later chop out the Mids in the capital. I see several options for placing this 2nd city.



I can make this city a cottage helper city for the capital by placing on tile A or B but if I want the southern corn in this city I need to place on tile C or D. Either way the city's long term use would be as a prod city.

Currently I'm leaning towards settling at D (on the stone). This gives me 3 hills I can work and I think a +2 hammer city tile. I can't see myself using the southern corn
in a different city since the other southern land is so crappy. This seems like the best way to make a production city out of this 2nd city. It also saves a few turns on Mids production since I dont have to build a quarry. C gives a city with 2 workable hills which would make a weak production city and not good for much else. I also have tentative plans for a Eastern GP Farm city spot that can do some of the cottage growing a city at A or B will do.

I can make capital a cottage city and Legendary City 1, GP Farm legendary city 2, and then found some sort of cottage city by the flood plains for Legendary city 3.

In terms of next tech: I'm pretty committed towards the wheel for roads -> pottery. Not too sure after that. I'll need to get a 3rd settler and probably 2 more workers before I'm ready to build the Mids. Hopefully I can mostly chop it out using the many forests around the capital.

Save attached:

I will pick up more turns of this in the next few days and play until I have 3-4 cities founded.

 

[georgjorge]

Deity, non-cultural victory attempt , to 740AD:

Spoiler :

This seems like an easy map - lots of food, stone AND marble, room for many cities. A problem on higher levels is that if both the AI and the player have many cities, you have to choose between maintenance killing off your research and an AI running away with 20 cities.

Upon seeing stone and marble, I immediately thought upon going Pyramids + Great Library. But when I saw how much space there was, I decided to rather spend my hammers on Workers, Settlers and anti-barb units instead. After founding eight cities, I was already feeling the strain on my economy. So what's the solution? Why, more cities of course! Seeing a wimp like van Orange nearby I just couldn't resist the temptation to go for a Medieval war, bulbing first Machinery and then Engineering for the mighty Trebs after a small detour to Literature for the National Epic + Great Library combo in my capital (not that great in hindsight because I then whipped the capital a lot for many Trebs, only temporarily running specialists there).

So this...

...lead to this...

...which lead to this...

Look who's been busy building wonders with the marble + stone I traded him instead of units!

Willem really helped me out there with both the Great Lighthouse and Notre Dame, both of which were sorely needed for my economy. I'm crawling along towards Gunpowder with no hope of out-teching the AIs on the other continent, one of which already found me with Optics. Even after whipping in Courthouses everywhere, my focus on production instead of cottages is starting to show. But I'll soon make peace with van Orange after taking one or two more cities (currently have thirteen) and turn around to attack Saladin - Trebs + Oromos should be good until Rifles, and I might get him before he gets there. If I can get to thirty cities, I might just be able to win this game by UN or a huge invasion force of outdated units (Monty-style). I'll keep you updated.

 

[MasterofDisasta]

Update of my game up to 2040 BC.

Spoiler :

Built another warrior while growing to size 4. Then built a settler with 1 chop and a 2pop whip.

Mined a hill at the capital and settled 2nd city on the stone.

Built a 2nd worker from capital. 2nd worker immediately connected 2nd city to river with road. 1st worker chopped and mined another hill.

Started research on pottery and produced warriors in both cities for fog busting.

Decided to go up to 3 workers before settling another city. Thought I would settle a flood plains cottage city next to help research.
After that I will settle the pigs, wheat, copper site. Thinking of actually turning that into a hybrid commerce, prod city and wonder spamming there. The land seems too good to waste working specialists.
Gp Farm can be the city settled on the stone.

I paused here after founding the FP cottage city. Not 100% sure about the location choice since it destroyed a FP. It seemed the best compromise between cottage-able land, some hills for prod, and providing a little, but not excessive overlap with the capital.

Capital and FP city a starting graneries and Stone city just whipped out its granery and is halfway into my next settler. I plan to send this settler to the copper, wheat, pigs site (marked NEXT CITY). Masonry is 3 turns from completion and the capital will immediately start on a stone wonder. I have though about GW since there is a lot of land in which barbs can spawn but it seems not helpful for a culture victory. I think the Mids is a much better choice, but I am still undecided. Stonehenge would be kind of nice but I think it is too late to attempt that.


Long Term Plan:

Capital, FP city, and NEXT City will be my 3 legendary cities and Stone City can function as a GP Farm.

There is plenty of land to settle extra cities as well. I still have only met 2 AI (Willem, Saladin) and I haven't even found Willem's cities yet so I think I am safe even with a slow pace of expansion.

Current State of the Empire

 

[Pepnponcho00]

Deity - Cultural Victory 1715.

Never attempted culture before but this was a relative breeze (compared to conquest/domination). Hannibal gave me a scare by declaring 3 turns before i got the win but his troops never reached unloaded from his ships. Fun map!

 

[dutchfire]

I want to try culture here, but I'm not sure when I'll have time.

 

[georgjorge]

Deity, non-cultural attempt, to 1260AD:

Spoiler :

After taking Willem from fourteen to six cities with relative ease (and lots of Trebs) I made peace and turned to Saladin. Saladin would discover Grenadiers soon and was not far from Steel either, and he had sixteen cities. How would it go...?

I cunningly prepared a city for him to take with his stack so I could destroy it in counterattack. He cunningly ignored it, choosing to go for another city instead with this stack:

But when I parked mine right next to it on a hill, he attacked, losing his stack with little casualties on my side. I took some cities, and 1100ADish finally discovered the mighty tech of...Gunpowder! And I think that's the last tech I'll be able to get in this game, losing sixty gold at zero research currently even with Courthouses everywhere + Forbidden City + Great Lighthouse.

I came up against another stack, even bigger:

Close call, but I just had enough Trebs to take the city. Saladin still refused to tech Steel (though it wouldn't be that useful after him losing almost all his Siege anyway).

I don't have an idea if I'll be able to win this, but it's fun fighting a huge AI at technological disadvantage and winning. If he gets to Rifling soon, he still might beat me. But my stack is going strong...

...and Diplo might be in the cards after taking Saladin's and Willem's cities since Mehmet is going to be easy to please with Vassalage + ressources + some gold gifts.

Sadly, it seems none of you went for a Deity non-cultural win - it would have been very interesting to compare strategies on this map.

 

[enKage]

Anyone to go OCC with useless OCC traits?