Noble's Club XXIII: Hatsheput

[Lansky]

Emperor/Epic
1000AD
Priest Economy!

Spoiler :

Going for a very different type of game here to try and mix it up on myself. Going for a super priest style economy. Already one GP produced and another coming before the AD's. 21bpt and 4gpt BUT only 2 cities so far. Built Henge/Oracle (have CoL) and will be trying for SP and AW (capital is a poor GP farm but great production so I'm conflicted). This will be after attempting a late war chariot ousting of Sury, which is up next. This could go VERY badly but man will it be fun.

The Capital Priest Pump - next one will be for Sury's shrine since he probably spread it a bit better than my two Confucius cities.

The massive Empire - worst case scenario there are at least 4 city sites and the barb city to the south for me to rush to but I think I'll be able to take Sury with War Chariots.

 

[sophie]

Will play this...soon, maybe later, shooting for my second ever Noble win.

TMIT: are you going to do LPC for your own club? I'd love to see it. It's really nice to, as with the LHC to play a game through and then go back and see how you played differently. I certainly got a lot more out of doing that than simply watching.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Will play this...soon, maybe later, shooting for my second ever Noble win.

TMIT: are you going to do LPC for your own club? I'd love to see it. It's really nice to, as with the LHC to play a game through and then go back and see how you played differently. I certainly got a lot more out of doing that than simply watching.

Maybe next time...this time I'm doing it at monarch/quick to get more feel for how SGOTM 9 will play out in terms of just the speed settings.

 

[Crusher1]

Spoiler :

Tech: Fishing, AH, Min, Writing, Alphabet, Asthetics to Literature, Col, Philo (bulb) CS, MC, Machinery, Education (bulb half), Liberalism, Feudalism, Guilds - HE again.

Build order: Worker till fishing done, WB, finish worker, WB, Library, warrior, warrior, settler, settler, worker, worker

 

[GGS]

975 BC debriefing.

As Hannibal Smith so often said, and I rarely can in BtS, "I love it when a plan comes together."

Spoiler :

A War Chariot rush was the plan. Considering that huts were not a priority, the results were brilliant - Mysticism, hostile, scout, 90G, 138G, 52G, 55G. Team Egypt built as planned and the tech path was AH, fishing, mining, BW, IW, writing, pottery, masonry, meditation, priesthood looking at CoL.

The horse city was settled one SW of the lake to save time. It cost a warrior and the scout to lions. There was time to build the two barracks while waiting for writing to explore the opposition territory - Suryavarman II in 3675 and Gilgamesh in 2825. The Khmer War, 1st because of the Great Wall and the Hindu religion, ran from 1475 to 1375. (Here I think I made a mistake that is unaffordable in the Noble to Prince jump. The third city was at the iron/pig spot NE of the capital. I think I should have left a few of the boyos there until it had some culture rather than "ruining" it). The Sumerian War began in 1150 and this second civilization was destroyed in 975. Two civs down with a single military advantage. The butcher's bill was six of the 20 war chariots.

What's next for the seven-city empire? A new plan sounds like a plan.

 

[GnafGnaf]

Well after silly man now it is time for egypt. First time i tried i learned a lesson i have learned many times before: Play the map, not the civilization. So on my second try i didnt focus on getting an early religion using the obelisk for an early priest.

below is my second try emperor - normal - 4000bc until 1450 AD

Spoiler :

Settled in place strating with building a warrior after the warrior 2 workboats followed by a warrior and a worker.

tech fishing - hunting - ah - mining - BW - after that i researched alphabet and then headed to the GL.

The land we have isnt really foodrich. The horses where at a very tricky spot and eventhough we have the awesome warchariot i didnt use it because it is 1450 AD i still havent claimed the horses

I founded memphis 1E of the corn and quickly followed by Heliopos 1E of the silk. After the following trade i settled the 3 cities at the West to block my two fellow hindi. Grabbing the Gems and corn.

Chopped the GL and started to remove the jungle with lots of jungle and replace it with cottages. When i have build the university in memphys i will probably move the palace there, (is it usefull to move the palace since im not using bureacratie anymore to help me against the culture presure from surva and gilmash).

I felt confident in the race to liberalism, eventhough both, gilamesh and surva are teching at about the same pace as i am. Since gilly already had philo i traded it away.

I really love being spirutal its my favorite. I changed alot between slavery and none slavery to avoid slave revolts (normally i play without random events). Anyways i used caste system to starve a city so it would produce a quick scientist to bulp education.

Well this is why i dont like playing with randomevents

But on the otherside i really need the culture so this RE was rather nice

Anyways, i raced to liberalism and i took nationalism since no one had it and i would like a GA had a few forest to chop around the capital (still have some) and since im still in bureacratie its production is good. After building the taj (also build the UoS btw) I switched to Free Speech since i really feel the cultural pressure. It seems this continent is bulking of culture at least according to Tacitus

At 1 turn before the Taj i made maybe some dubious trades i would like you comment on them.

The turn later i also trade Liberalism and printing press for astronomy with sury also maybe dubious.

Still it is looking good at the moment, but now i am really in doubt what to do, since i really need to study it seems like a good time to quite playing and wait for some good advice. Since i cant add more picture to this post it will continue in the next post.

 

[GnafGnaf]

Okey here a situation of the world right now (1450 AD)

Spoiler :

Well currently im looking at the following situation i could go for the peacefull victory (maybe UN else space race) or make some violent wars. As the other continent really is lacking sci. Anyways here are the screenshots.

In 1 turn i will have scientific method

Right now i have to Galleys crossing the world one has just met orange man (lol @ TMIT ) and i can get his worldmap might shave a few turns of the "you have proven the world is round" but saladin is also in the race for this. Futher i still havent met 2 other civilizations.

If you have any advice should i continue peacefully or wreck some havoc with a nice invasion on the other island?

thanks in advantage now im of to studie i played this game about 3 hours to long already including this write up

 

[Lansky]

Longest 1000BC – 500AD I think I've ever played
Emperor/Epic *
more like Monarch+1 or Noble+2 due to garrisoned warriors replacing archers in Sury’s cities

Spoiler :

Get a group of WC’s together and in 500BC we make a trade with the guy we are about to off anyway. What’s he gonna do with it? Throw paintings at us?

Spoiler :

Well the war against the Jews lasts all of 195 years and is little more than an experience farm. Sury had a whopping 3 cities in addition to no horses or copper. Level 1 archers and warriors are fairly easy for chariots little yet a unique one. He did build some nice stuff though and his third city has iron, though he never lived long enough to realize that.

Spoiler :

Well now its 245BC, Gilgamesh is looking fairly weak, and our unique unit is not going to come back into season. He also owns the Hindu holy city which is the most prevalent religion. Tech rate nose dive? Yup, but screw it. He's pleased with us and yet won't trade anything. Worthless!

Spoiler :

Instead of marching through the jungle chariots are funneled to the SE of Gilga’s empire and attack the softer and more travelable underbelly. This miiiiight be a bit more than I was expecting. Stone+Protective…

Spoiler :

Veteran chariots prevail and Gilgamesh takes a noticeable hit to his power score. As if it were not obvious all new cities in both Gilgamesh and Sury’s territories begin on courthouses even before granaries. The treasury is shrinking at 100% wealth and growing a city to the happy cap while being at war for a century should not be a huge issue.

Spoiler :

A goal. I love having a goal.

Spoiler :

Well 60% culture but at least no wall! The Sumerian’s proclivity to building swordsmen over vultures is aggravating. Never really considered it before this war but War Chariots eat vultures pretty badly, especially C2+ chariots.

Spoiler :

No wall made taking the holy city pretty freaking easy. For the trouble Egypt gains two wonders. Also this war has now already lasted almost as long as the one against Sury. Hills and units above archers really bog war down.

Spoiler :

In 115AD Egypt completes a wonder that it forgot it was building. I wish I had forgot I was building the Parthenon, but oh wait I don’t have Polytheism. It now makes more sense to me.

Spoiler :

More walls! AHHHHHH!

Spoiler :

The supply of veteran war chariots has dwindled massively. Thankfully Gilgamesh will talk peace whenever Egypt is good and ready – i.e. after taking these gems and leaving him with one city.

Spoiler :

The year 445AD was a glorious one that saw the completion of another wonder and what may as well be the fall of the Sumerian empire. With the loss of everything but a small jungle city on a hill Gilgamesh provided… well it was an offer that could not be refused. HBR would have been nice but I guess it will do. It buys him 10 turns to find someone else to capitulate to before being a smear in a history book.

Spoiler :

Now the rebuilding and consolidating phase begins. Thanks to the SP the empire converts to Free Religion to spread around the happiness provided by the three religions on the continent. The idea of a priest economy slightly went under due to the lengthy war but in 490AD another great person is born. With 45% odds of a Priest, 25% odds of a merchant, well whatever you get the point. We get a booby prize.

Spoiler :

Well whenever contact is made with the other continent I'm going to go out on a limb and say we'll be a bit behind. Until recently the rest of the world had only claimed Buddhism and in 500AD our big tech of the moment is CURRENCY! Cutting edge here baby!

 

[v8_mark]

Spoiler :

Ahaha, Syracuse Orange Man! Shame I never got to see him though, he got destroyed, either by barbs or Portugal in my game (Amsterdam, the Buddhist holy city, was Portuguese!

Report to come soon, Monarch/Epic. Decided not to step up after all (maybe next game)

 

[dirtyparrot]

TMIT, how the heck to you always manage to finish your games in under 3hrs? It usually takes me at least the triple of that.

 

[Stewie0416]

TMIT, how the heck to you always manage to finish your games in under 3hrs? It usually takes me at least the triple of that.

O great TMIT! Please teach us your mighty ways!!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301900

 

[Trystero]

I am relatively new (both to the forums and BtS), but I thought I would dive right in and open up my gameplay to any constructive criticism offered. Noble/normal to 1000 BC:

Spoiler :

I have played and won a couple of games at Noble, but my approach seems far from optimal. In particular, I tend to do better when the map or other circumstances constrain my available options. This start seemed relatively wide-open and so here was my approach:

Tech order: Fishing > Mining > popped Pottery > AH (spotted Horse city location) > popped Sailing > BW (no Copper visible) > Mysticism > Writing > IW (found lots) > Hunting > Masonry

My initial plan was to chariot rush a close neighbor, so I probably should have gone Fishing > AH > Mining. I also built Stonehenge in the capitol, which were hammers that might have been better spent elsewhere, but I thought I would take advantage of the free UB, even though Hatty is already Creative. I'm also used to Epic, so Normal seems a little fast to me.

State of the world at 1000 BC:

After hooking up the horses and iron, I decided to expand toward Sury in the south while researching Mathematics. I probably should have been more aggressive and stuck with my original rush idea. At this point I'm going to build swords and chariots (and maybe wait for cats?) to eventually take out Sury, using the whip to speed production and minimize overcrowding unhappiness.

 

[Lansky]

Trystero

Spoiler :

You could still chariot rush Sury only because Egypt's chariot is its unique unit. At best Sury has axes by now on noble. Even on a higher level 6 strength swords versus 5 strength WC's isn't a huge discrepancy as long as there aren't too many of them. War Chariots will destroy warriors and axes and due to being immune to first strikes innately are pretty good against archers as well. Upgrade a handful of chariots as flanking to hopefully take the hits and get out against fortified archers and then use combat upgraded ones to finish the job. Normally though you are right that a rush should already be about to happen if not already in full swing by 1000BC.

 

[GnafGnaf]

Well to summerize, i lost the game. At the start i feel have played to peacefull. After a good start i gave it away after the liberalism race, not able to build enough culture my south cities all lost workeble tiles causing me to build mostly culture and thus unable to produce spaceships parts.

next time no peacefull building anymore

 

[Bleys]

Gnaf, some border-city culture tips:

Spoiler :

When faced with a CRE neighbor, its important to get those culture buildings up ASAP, the sooner the better. Be thankful its not Zara, hes a true culture beast.

So here are some ideas for you. First off, spread as many religions as you can to those cities, and get those Monasteries and cheap Temples (from SPI) up right away. Also, Founding a religion in a city is a +5, so its nice when you get CoL or Philo for their religion and it lands in a border city, even though you arent really "trying" for them.

Wonders are excellent Culture battlers. Especially the Artist Wonders you dont really want in your GP city. Parth, Sistine, MoM, and SoZ are all +10 culture Wonders. New border cities likely have forests and excess food, so use em to get the SoZ or Parth up, especially if you have a resource. Consider National Wonder placement as well, a forward position for the HE can be an early game winner, and a mid-game dominator. You need a Forbidden Palace for economic growth, so put its Culture to use as well as its primary function.

Also, believe it or not, despite being CRE, you want that Monument. It will eventually double to +2 soon enough to contribute to the tile-battles. Being CRE also means cheap Theaters, making Drama desirable.

Modifiers like +50 and 100%% are nice, but you need a strong base culture number to apply to those modifiers.

And finally, never forget that the best way to relieve the culture pressure on one of your cities is too capture/raze the city thats applying the pressure. I often have mini "not real" wars where I DoW, take and raze an annoying city the AI has, then just shore up defensively til he will take peace. Sure it gets you off on the wrong foot, but an AI like Sury is more concerned with your religion and civics, so you can fool him constantly with SPI swaps. One trick I especially like is to bring a settler to found the city yourself after to raze his. You have to be ready to defend it and apply cultural pressure ASAP though, so have your ducks in a row, but go for it. Little wars never hurt a Builder.

I didnt read your reports all the way through bro, because I want to play this myself without too much pre-knowledge, but I read why you feel you lost, hope this helps.

 

[GGS]

505 AD debriefing.

The downside of going up is that Prince/Epic really is harder than Noble/Normal.

Spoiler :

First, a reportage error, Gilgamesh was the head Hindu. Seven cities and 364 gold would be a reasonable stretch at the old level and speed but not on this plane. The only thing I could think of was de-commissioning more than half of the army, cottaging, chopping and mathematics to currency with sometime at zero-tech. The turning point was 130 AD when Yasodharavra produced a Great Spy for a Golden Age. In 340 AD the western horse city snared Confucianism.

The economy is quasi-functional. The key recent decision is one of technology and I chose the Literature path over the Optics path. Most immediately, a barbarian city is blocking the route form Thebes to the southern resources so the economy will have to stretch to a modest re-armament programme.

Next? Wonders?

 

[Trystero]

@ Lansky:

Spoiler :

I was definitely intending to go after Sury with a WC stack, regardless. If anything just for pillaging purposes while I wait to get cats. Since this is the first time I've posted a game to the forum, I think I was playing a little conservative. Thanks for reminding me of the WCs bonus against Axes in BtS! I keep forgetting about that

re: Wonders

Spoiler :

In retrospect, since all the leaders on this land mass are Creative, maybe building SH wasn't such a bad thing. Or am I overestimating the value of monuments in this circumstance? I guess my placement of Elephantine may test that (unless I can overrun Sury with War Chariots).

 

[Sian]

i find the map rather easy to admit ... my only major problem after killing off my 'roommates' early on was that the other continent had a union where one of them was master over a load of vassals :S

 

[Lansky]

re: Wonders

Spoiler :

In retrospect, since all the leaders on this land mass are Creative, maybe building SH wasn't such a bad thing. Or am I overestimating the value of monuments in this circumstance? I guess my placement of Elephantine may test that (unless I can overrun Sury with War Chariots).

It breaks down to the player's choice really. I love Stonehenge creative or not. Newly settled/captured cities will pop borders 1 turn sooner and two extra priest specialist slots, and that early in the game, is not an awful thing to add in every city. At the same time with no other modifiers your borders will pop in 4 turns instead of 5. Not game breaking but I like it.

More than anything else I commonly try for a prophet as my first GP to help early wars/expansions. Someone that shoots hard for a GS early may see it merely as pollution in this situation.

 

[GnafGnaf]

@ Bleys

thank you for the feedback, I should indeed have concentrated earlier on culture especially since i settled agressively close to his capital. Lesson learned.