Noob: Basic questions on religious relationships

[Chas]

If there is a thread somewhere that explains all this, please point me to it - I have searched on 'religion' but there are too many results.

What I am trying to understand is what causes, and can prevent, a particular AI civ from having -3 rels with me because of 'falling under the sway of a heathen religion'.

1. I believe that when there are negative rels it is always -3, and always 'falling under the sway of a heathen religion'. Is this right?

2. I believe that the AI determines their own 'state religion' by taking a simple majority of their cities. So e.g. if they have 3 cities, one is Hindu, then they have a 'State Religion' of Hindu. Is this right? If so, then presumably all AI civs that have at least 1 city with a religion have some 'state religion'. If not, is there somewhere in the interface that I have missed that tells me whether each civ has a 'state religion' and what it is?

3. I believe that as the human player, I can have any number of cities with a religion, but choose 'No State Religion' in the Religion screen. If I do this, when, say, all my cities are Hindu, and the other civ does have a 'State Religion' of, say, Confucianism, then will this avoid the 'falling under the sway of a heathen religion' relationship penalty? (I know there is more to the choice than this, as there are +1 happy benefits to be had, but here I am just concerned with the relationship aspect).

4. I believe that when a new religion appears in my civ, and I get asked the question 'Do you want to convert' then answering yes has exactly the same effect as if I say 'No' and then go immediately to the religion screen and click to convert. So the question is effectively just a shortcut/reminder to the religion screen Is this right?

5. Once I get Monotheism I get the chance to move my religious civic to Organised Religion. If I do so, but I have 'No state religion', will my relationships with other civs be affected? So, say, that although I have a majority of Hindu cities, I am carefully not having a state religion to avoid upsetting a powerful neighbour (which may or may not be a good idea strategically, but is certainly possible within the game) then will my relationships stay the same even if I am Organised Religion (again, it may be a bit dumb to go Organised Religion without having a state religion, but it is possible I believe).

6. Conversely, if I have a state religion, and say I have -3 rels with another civ as a result, and then I also choose Organised Religion, will those rels get even worse, or will they stay the same?

7. Do relationships suffer as a result of trying (whether successfully or not) to use a missionary to convert another civ city?

 

[Joshua368]

1. I believe that when there are negative rels it is always -3, and always 'falling under the sway of a heathen religion'. Is this right?

If you and another civilization have different state religions, you will get negative diplomacy modifiers. It think it's not always -3 though... certain leaders care more than others based on their personalities, typically "spiritual" AI leaders care more.

Also if the civilization owns the religion's holy city, it cares more about religion. (hating you more if you don't adopt it, liking you more if you do)

2. I believe that the AI determines their own 'state religion' by taking a simple majority of their cities. So e.g. if they have 3 cities, one is Hindu, then they have a 'State Religion' of Hindu. Is this right? If so, then presumably all AI civs that have at least 1 city with a religion have some 'state religion'. If not, is there somewhere in the interface that I have missed that tells me whether each civ has a 'state religion' and what it is?

Yes, they usually choose their state religion by which one is in most of their cities. However if they found their own religion (and have its holy city) they are much more likely to adopt it over a foreign religion regardless of spread.

3. I believe that as the human player, I can have any number of cities with a religion, but choose 'No State Religion' in the Religion screen. If I do this, when, say, all my cities are Hindu, and the other civ does have a 'State Religion' of, say, Confucianism, then will this avoid the 'falling under the sway of a heathen religion' relationship penalty? (I know there is more to the choice than this, as there are +1 happy benefits to be had, but here I am just concerned with the relationship aspect).

Yes, by having no state religion you will get no friends or enemies based on religion. The Free Religion civic does this as well, which in this particular case you might want to get early (through Shwedagon Paya) for the happiness and science benefits.

4. I believe that when a new religion appears in my civ, and I get asked the question 'Do you want to convert' then answering yes has exactly the same effect as if I say 'No' and then go immediately to the religion screen and click to convert. So the question is effectively just a shortcut/reminder to the religion screen Is this right?

Yep, just a shortcut.

5. Once I get Monotheism I get the chance to move my religious civic to Organised Religion. If I do so, but I have 'No state religion', will my relationships with other civs be affected? So, say, that although I have a majority of Hindu cities, I am carefully not having a state religion to avoid upsetting a powerful neighbour (which may or may not be a good idea strategically, but is certainly possible within the game) then will my relationships stay the same even if I am Organised Religion (again, it may be a bit dumb to go Organised Religion without having a state religion, but it is possible I believe).

It won't hurt your diplomatic relations, but adopting Organized Religion, Theocracy, or Pacifism without a state religion is a complete waste, as it'll have no effect and simply bring in a higher maitenance cost. Once you do adopt a religion, keep in mind that the civic will only help cities with the state religion present.

While on this topic, I should point out that a few religion-specific wonders (Sistine Chapel, University of Sankore, Spiral Minaret) are also mostly wasted without a state religion.

6. Conversely, if I have a state religion, and say I have -3 rels with another civ as a result, and then I also choose Organised Religion, will those rels get even worse, or will they stay the same?

The religious civics do not effect relations, unless you end up sharing a civilization's "favorite civic", shown on the Info diplomacy screen, which will boost them.

7. Do relationships suffer as a result of trying (whether successfully or not) to use a missionary to convert another civ city?

No, they won't care. Though you won't be able to spread non-state religions to civs running Theocracy.

 

[Chas]

Yes, they usually choose their state religion by which one is in most of their cities. However if they found their own religion (and have its holy city) they are much more likely to adopt it over a foreign religion regardless of spread.

Thank you, very helpful. Just one last detailed follow-up.

So say they found Judaeism, have its holy city, and another 1 of their 5 cities is Jewish. But somehow because of religion spreading they happen to have 3 cities that are Confucian.

How do I know whether they have a state religion and which it is (accepting that it is much the likeliest to be Judaeism because they founded it)?

If I hover over the civ name in the little panel on the bottom right of the screen that shows you the relationships summary etc, then there is a row of little icons there (at least there are with BUG, which I have, I'm not sure if it looks the same without BUG). Sometimes one of these icons (not really sure if it is ever more than one) is a religious symbol.

So does this tell me their state religion? And if sometimes there is no religious icon (not sure if this ever happens) does this mean they have no state religion?

 

[UWHabs]

State religions do show up in the panel to the bottom right (at least without any mods). The other way to check if you share their religion is to see if you have + or - modifiers in your relation with them

 

[nbcman]

@ Chas

If you are interested in how the AI's relations are affected by religion and other items, check out dj_anion's reference guide here. It is updated through BtS 3.13 patch.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=236346

 

[Joshua368]

Their religion, as the guy above said, is shown in the list of names in the bottom right. You should see a small religious icon there, if they don't have one then they have no state religion/free religion. Also if they have the holy city, the icon will have a little star on it.

You can also check by looking in their diplomacy screens, with the leaderhead and everything. There will be a small religious icon in the top corner there too... though it doesn't show the star for a holy city.

 

[Charonicus]

3. I believe that as the human player, I can have any number of cities with a religion, but choose 'No State Religion' in the Religion screen. If I do this, when, say, all my cities are Hindu, and the other civ does have a 'State Religion' of, say, Confucianism, then will this avoid the 'falling under the sway of a heathen religion' relationship penalty? (I know there is more to the choice than this, as there are +1 happy benefits to be had, but here I am just concerned with the relationship aspect).

Seems all your other questions have been answered satisfactorily. One more note on this one. Having no state religion certainly avoids those diplomatic heathen penalties. But you're missing out on the "brothers of the faith" bonus with fellow members of that religion. Some religious civs go as high as +7 with this I think. Adopting the majority religion can be a good way of boosting your relations with most civs at the expense of annoying one or two heathens. And of course, having a religion means you can use the religious civics to full effect. ^^

 

[Chas]

You can also check by looking in their diplomacy screens, with the leaderhead and everything. There will be a small religious icon in the top corner there too... though it doesn't show the star for a holy city.

OK, now I see it. Stupid of me.

If you are interested in how the AI's relations are affected by religion and other items, check out dj_anion's reference guide here. It is updated through BtS 3.13 patch.

Holy smoke, what an amazing labour of love. They should just give him a job and sack their own team.

 

[Willem]

2. I believe that the AI determines their own 'state religion' by taking a simple majority of their cities. So e.g. if they have 3 cities, one is Hindu, then they have a 'State Religion' of Hindu. Is this right?

No, the AI generally adopts the first religion that establishes itself in any of his cities. Later, if another religion gains some dominance, he may switch to it but not always.

 

[Solomwi]

Just to nitpick one of Joshua368's otherwise excellent answers, the +2 culture per specialist means that Sistine can be well worth the effort even if you don't have a state religion.

 

[Joshua368]

Just to nitpick one of Joshua368's otherwise excellent answers, the +2 culture per specialist means that Sistine can be well worth the effort even if you don't have a state religion.

That's specifically why I stuck "mostly wasted" in there. That's the only thing that isn't thrown away between all three wonders, other than the culture from the wonder itself, the raw GP points, and denying it from an AI. It's a pretty expensive wonder though, even with marble, not something you'd want to waste.

 

[Emiliano]

5. Once I get Monotheism I get the chance to move my religious civic to Organised Religion. If I do so, but I have 'No state religion', will my relationships with other civs be affected? So, say, that although I have a majority of Hindu cities, I am carefully not having a state religion to avoid upsetting a powerful neighbour (which may or may not be a good idea strategically, but is certainly possible within the game) then will my relationships stay the same even if I am Organised Religion (again, it may be a bit dumb to go Organised Religion without having a state religion, but it is possible I believe).

I think you CANT have one of there civics without having a State Religion.

 

[nbcman]

@ emiliano

You can run Org Rel without a state religion. You wont get the +25% to production with cities with the state religion but you do gain the ability to produce missionaries without having a monastery and you do gain any diplomatic benefits with the AIs for being in Org Rel. But Org Rel does have High upkeep so I would not go into it without having a state religion.