Not a Beginner, bored with the game...

[Pratputajao]

Well after finally getting the game to run decently on a large map it seems I am losing interest in CIV. I have had the game for 1 month + and the game has already become boring. This is a first with ANY game bearing Sid's name! Played Civ1-3, MoM, MoO-2 & SMAC, and played all of them for years after they had become graphically dated... hell, still to this day play Civ 2-3, MoO 2, and MoM. What is it with CIV that makes this game get old so fast? I know its not just me (I also know many disagree, I respect that) I am really curious about this as the game is basically the same game since Civ 1... but there is something missing; I just don’t know what it is? Now before people start saying- "you’ve played the games too long and lost interest" I know this is not the case as I just installed Age of wonder 2: Shadow magic (thanks to a suggestion here) a game very much in the Civ Model and have been playing this every day since I got it while also continuing to play Civ 3. In fact it is part of the reason I haven’t picked CIV back up; even though I know it (AoWSM) is an inferior game. But it has something that CIV seems too lack. So now I am playing AoWSM, Civ 3, and Neverwinter Nights daily (well almost daily, wife does get some time ) Basically I am just wondering what this version is lacking? I am curious to know what others are thinking; maybe I am in a very small minority here? Before anyone starts, I am NOT complaining. I don’t even know what to complain about, as I am not sure why the game has become boring? I think the game is brilliant in its execution but is lacking something that gives it staying power. I'm just wondering what that something is?

One good thing is that I am almost certain this will be remedied with a future Mod, but right now the game rests in its sleeve.

 

[Crimso]

Nobody can tell you what you don't like about the game.

 

[Pratputajao]

As stated in my post- I know its not just me- So i am asking what is it that OTHERS find it lacking. Getting other points of view could help solidify what it is exactly. My hunch is that it lacks soul ( for lack of a better term) but other oppinions are welcome, even those who disagree...

Heh, i see a thread where people are saying this game should get a 100% rating... Wow, technical problems alone would prohibit that I would think?! Anyway glad to see many dont have the problem of getting bored with it, just wish I were one of 'em.

 

[NewportHarry]

I have now beat the game at least 10 tens, three or at least on prince. I have yet to build any sort of airplane. I just finished a Prince game. Diplomatic Victory, and the next turn I would have won a space victory. I had no coal, no oil. That means No planes, no tanks, no fun big weapons. The game seems to paced wrong. I used to love modern age fights. Bombing the hell out of people with airplanes, crushing them with tanks and infantry. None of that is needed any more. I can research so much faster than I can the units out that by the time I can engage in a battle. I could have either won the game or someone else would have.

I played CIV to death and I too am groing bored with this game. I think it have to do with the pacing. You can progress through the tech try far faster than you get the stuff out.

 

[Xink]

Getting other points of view could help solidify what it is exactly.

Doubt it, as everyone expects different things and enjoys a game for a multitude of reasons.
You might want to consider one of the mods that extend the time that you spend in each era, that has been fun for me to but might not work for you if it isn't the pace of the game that is part of your problem..?

What other games do you enjoy playing...?

 

[Pratputajao]

I used to love modern age fights. Bombing the hell out of people with airplanes, crushing them with tanks and infantry. None of that is needed any more. I can research so much faster than I can the units out that by the time I can engage in a battle. I could have either won the game or someone else would have.

I played CIV to death and I too am groing bored with this game. I think it have to do with the pacing. You can progress through the tech try far faster than you get the stuff out.

A very good point. I have beat the game 3 times on Noble; afterwards whenever I got to the Modern age in a new game I would just start another game as it just was not fun any more. Planes, who needs em' What do they do that makes them worth it?. Artillery is needed ONLY to weaken cities then Suicide them. So Needless to say the combat system is... strange.. But That is really not the core of my dislike. To me the game seems steril, without personality.

Having said that I dont dislike the game! I like it... The way i like Half life ( though that did have personality, just got tired of it) or some of the Civ clones.. It was fun for a while but then got boring, however the game is still a good game and I feel I got my moneys worth. But it doesnt have that 'sid' feel to it- ... must keep playing... no need sleep... I do miss that.

 

[Pratputajao]

Doubt it, as everyone expects different things and enjoys a game for a multitude of reasons.

Agree, but it seems we ( Civ community) like the game for pretty simmilar reasons- The grand scale of it, The ' one more turn syndrome', The multiple playing styles... But, As far as I know, One of those reasons was NEVER The Good graphics? There seemed to be an emphisis on graphics this time around and some of the little touches were left oput- REAL advisors, Good civilpedia, Hyperlinks for everything... And I think that is what is sinking it for me

You might want to consider one of the mods that extend the time that you spend in each era, that has been fun for me to but might not work for you if it isn't the pace of the game that is part of your problem..?

Totally agree! I have great faith in the modding community here, i know there is some brilliance being brewed this very moment. But I played Civ 2 and 3 for years without ever picking up a mod... cant see it happening with this one. Do you still see yourself playing this game in two years without a mod?

What other games do you enjoy playing...?

Big time RPG fan - Neverwinters night being the favorite right now. Baldurs gate and PS:Torment may very well be the best games ever made! I have played NWN almost daily for over a year. Also really enjoy Civ type games (obviously) Those are the two big genres for me. I do play UT'04 and Diablo ( dont consider it a real RPG) But I do not like RTS games.. at least in the most popular forms today (RONs of AOE). The funny thing is that I thought I would love them ( before they had been 'invented'). However I do think it might be a good idea if a CIV type game would have a RT tacticle battle option.

 

[Xink]

But, As far as I know, One of those reasons was NEVER The Good graphics?

Hee hee - I must be the only one then that swooned over Rhye's Terrain Graphics Modpack for Civ 3 I must admit I love my eye candy. But I do feel that the emphasis of this game, Civ4, is geared towards encouraging more than your traditional Civ player to the genre of TBS types of games, whilst not alienating the traditional Civ player. A difficult one to pull off and I'm not sure if they have succeeded.

Do you still see yourself playing this game in two years without a mod?

2 Years, I only waited until the mods started rolling and I'm already using them...!!!

Big time RPG fan - Neverwinters night being the favorite right now

mmmm then that could be part of the problem with playing Civ 4. I like playing Morrowind, now where would that game be without its excellent modding capability...? Or Sacred, with its add-ons. Those RPG games have the longevity that envelopes the player more so than Civ 4 seems to be able to, again I am thinking this is because when they designed Civ 4 they responded to much criticism of the previous versions taking too long to play, as I mentioned earlier. I just wish that the 'epic' option when you choose the game speed made the game feel more epic.

 

[Doomed_UK]

I know how you feel - I had to mod tech research so it is alot slower - that has helped me!
(although I end up with insanely large expensive military)

 

[Pratputajao]

Hee hee - I must be the only one then that swooned over Rhye's Terrain Graphics Modpack for Civ 3 I must admit I love my eye candy.

Havent actually tried that, been into RaR- Just awsome. Maybe I will give Ryhe's a try ( I see he is credited in CIV). I would say there is almost a balance with the graphics and playability in CIV. I say almost becouse there were alot of people who had problems running the game becouse of the graphics ( through some say it is becouse of Python?) Hell, you have players making patches for the game to make it run right! And, like I posted previously, it just seems alot of the little touches (which Add alot!)were ignored entirerly for the sake of graphics. Cant be sure on that but if they hadnt focused so much on the graphics they could have added all those things that many are missing and maybe polished up the combat engine (though many find nothing wrong with it) purely speculation on my part though. Sure the game looks great but I would be much happier if the graphics wearnt quite as good but all the afore mentioned things remained in the game and/or were polished.

2 Years, I only waited until the mods started rolling and I'm already using them...!!!

Thats my point. i played civ 2 for many years before I even knew there where mods ( could access them). But seeing that the mods are readily available for this game I guess you cant help but try them. I just thought I could play the game a bit longer without feeling bored enough to want something new within 2 months of its realese?

mmmm then that could be part of the problem with playing Civ 4. I like playing Morrowind, now where would that game be without its excellent modding capability...? Or Sacred, with its add-ons. Those RPG games have the longevity that envelopes the player more so than Civ 4 seems to be able to, again I am thinking this is because when they designed Civ 4 they responded to much criticism of the previous versions taking too long to play, as I mentioned earlier. I just wish that the 'epic' option when you choose the game speed made the game feel more epic.

Something I handnt really considered to be honest? but seems to make scence.. I have been playing NWN almost every single day for over a year with no signs of tireing. As long as good mods keep comming that game will be on my hard drive. Same with Morrowind ( NWN runs better on my system though, so it gets the attention). Hadnt tried any of the Mods (or even expansions) for Sacred, have to check that out. Anyway your point is well taken and I believe there is something to it. The new game does go by MUCH faster. I mean I have played RaR games that lasted literally months! ....Thats great stuff! I am not sure if the 'Improvements' ( easier for new players) really got them a much larger audience for the game? The only gammers I know who dont like Civ are the ones who never played it, not People that played it but found it too complex. But, as you hinted, it is hard for any game to stand up to the emmersive quality of a very good RPG... Maybe they have spoiled me? Either way I am off to check out some of the Mods, maybe rekindle my love...

 

[Rince]

Agree, but it seems we ( Civ community) like the game for pretty simmilar reasons- The grand scale of it, The ' one more turn syndrome', The multiple playing styles...

In my opinion, CivIV still has a grand scale, the one more turn syndrome and multiple playing styles. Especially the latter has improved a lot since Civ3.

But, As far as I know, One of those reasons was NEVER The Good graphics? There seemed to be an emphisis on graphics this time around and some of the little touches were left oput- REAL advisors, Good civilpedia, Hyperlinks for everything... And I think that is what is sinking it for me.

For sure, graphics must have been the emphasis during developement of the game. But to be fair, they added a lot of features to the game at the same time.
Things like religion, promotions and the civic system are all new concepts and are well done since they add more depth to the game.
I agree with you that the civilopedia and to some degree the advisors are bad. But i don't think that those can be real show-stoppers.

I have to admit that the early game is more interesting than the late game. Conquest and domination are more difficult to achieve and the other winning conditions need planning from the first turn on.
I don't really know how the late game could be improved though. In Civ3 i usually built masses of bombers and tanks and sent them off to crush all enemies. This was quite fun but also a bit mindless.


Greetings,

Rince

 

[BLOODYBATTLEBRA]

Maybe the problem is direction? Shadow Magic (there is a new unofficial 'patch' btw, which may interest you: http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=29,4740,0,60) made you fight Phobius the the shadow demons. However, there's been a story to civ has there, so it can't be direction? I approached this game with an open mind, because I'd never played Civ before, and for me the major problems are the interface (discussed many a time) and the combat. Been spoilt on Rome Total War and Barbarian Invasion, and even the Age of Wonders series had tactical combat (which I think could have ben put into Civ. After all, doesn't Firaxis have the resources? If Triumph, a smallish Dutch developer could do it, then why not Firaxis?). But if there are things 'missing' like the OP says, then for me there are more things not missing. I just find it hard to pick up a game after I save and exit, and Noble kicks my arse (on a sidenote, I don't get how I can have a bigger industrial base, more money, higher point score and still trashed by Napoleon. Be afraid of this git if you start anywhere near hinm. He ploughed through England--ha ha talk about alternate history, France conquering England under Napoleon-- then went for me. I saw the warning signs and built up a huge arse military, still lost.) and play a game all the way through. I find myself getting lost, i.e. lacking direction, but that's not the game's fault, just my noobishness.

 

[Xink]

Thats my point. i played civ 2 for many years before I even knew there where mods ( could access them). But seeing that the mods are readily available for this game I guess you cant help but try them. I just thought I could play the game a bit longer without feeling bored enough to want something new within 2 months of its realese?

Just maybe because at the time the Civ series was quite inovative and didn't have that 'more of the same' feel to it. The pace and tempo of Civ 4 is too fast for my liking and so I use this mod....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143815

...with that mod the game slows down and so my pleasure increases. I hope this will help to increase the longevity of the game for me, as Civ 3 had me captivated for a long time.

I mean I have played RaR games that lasted literally months! ....Thats great stuff!

I would doubt, even with the mod that I noted, that you will get that amount of pleasure from your game, depending for how long and often you play of course, and that, for me, is why I was hoping that the way that the game uses its mods would be more like Morrowind where many multiple mods could be both validated and used together with not much problem. I just don't see that happening just yet, or at all, with Civ4. If that doesn't happen I might have a big problem with combining mods which makes me think that the flexibility that the Civ 4 designers built into the game might not be that accomodating after all.

Hadnt tried any of the Mods (or even expansions) for Sacred, have to check that out.

I think that I might have confused you a little there. I meant the addons that are made for the game... Sacred Plus and Underworld.

 

[zafyro]

i really think that tactical combat would be sucha nice adition... also what other games had and civ have never used is a story mode. Alpha Centaury [the first time i played it i loved the story] had it, moo had it also [plus tactical combat] AoW definitely has it [but i don´t find any use for the game outside the history mode]
Lucky us that we would have lots of scenarios and campaigns that might cover this issue, even when most of us feel that the basic game is just enough

 

[Duke Togo]

I really get the feeling playing it that Civ IV was "dumbed down" to perhaps reach for a wider audiance. Its simply not as engaging or interesting as the past games were.

 

[wotan321]

I too am amazed they made it boring.... for me the real killer is the United Nations, it freezes the civics options. Diplomacy needs to be fixed. I am sure various mods will take care of the boredom and add some options to the game, but its unfortuate Firaxis released the game without much documentation on how to mod it.

I just don't understand the move to 3-d? What's the point, other than marketing? Its not a FPS, where detail and shading and all that matter.... Civ3 graphics looked just as good from the distance you normally play the game. All it did was make modding more difficult, and demand more from the computer.

The good news is, they can close down the CivAnon site, Civ4 will do more than any 12 step program to cure "one more turn".

 

[schekker]

can't say I'm already bored of the game but I think I can understand a bit about how you are feeling.

I'm certainly not a hardcore gamer and civ and the occassional RPG are about the only ones holding my interest.

Until now I always stayed with the original CIV2, not really liking the versions after it. I play to relax, so for me the game should not really be a challenge but just difficult enough that it will still give you a satisfied feeling after your almost guaranteed win

Civ2 was perfectly suited for that. It had the best eye candy of all civ games (the wonder movies and the council movies which were really fun) which were a welcome reward. And once you were in a position to crush your enemies, you could really crush them.

Civ4 is a bit lacking in that respect. About half way in my current game, I know I will win and how. But the execution of it is a bit tedious and misses the grand scale of the final slaughters in Civ2. Also, even on a large map, the game doesn't feel really 'epic' to me. So who knows, in half a year I might very well fire up civ2 again instead of civ4 if I just want to play a leisure game. It is too early to tell yet.

 

[Pratputajao]

Maybe the problem is direction? Shadow Magic (there is a new unofficial 'patch' btw, which may interest you: http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=29,4740,0,60) made you fight Phobius the the shadow demons

Yeah I see that, i'll have to pick it up. Actuially I liked Civ for its 'make your own direction' aspect. I have yet to play an actual scenario on AoW ..hehe. But I am downloading the Arda Mod ( Cant turn away from a Silmarillion Mod!!)

Yep the game(CIV) can be hard, for sure! This was a problem that sadly was not in it the previous version (3). And I do agree with tactical combat as I had noted. Rather than comming up with the rather a ..um..odd.. system they have now they could have implemented a tactical combat mode ( with a quick mode that just lets the Comp quickly do it for you as in AoW). Though I do doubt they will ever do this as they seem insistant on making sure we know it is NOT a war game ( even though it is in many ways)

 

[GIO888]

I thought I was alone; as someone who's played Civ til 5 in the morning every version - except this one!

It does seem dumbed down for the wider audience - I too never needed to "Mod" to keep the interest going. Now I'm hanging in there for someone to fix the mem leak probs (I'm no programer!)

I really don't see the need to pan in to such graphic detail - Civ was never about the graphics, and this time it seems to me to have erred on the Eye Candy side.

Civics, Religion and Combat are all much improved. It's a classic example of everything is bigger, better, more complex, but where is the magic?

I guess saying "dumbed down" and "bigger, better, more complex" says more than the contradiction implies!

CIV ON!

 

[Pratputajao]

Just maybe because at the time the Civ series was quite inovative and didn't have that 'more of the same' feel to it. The pace and tempo of Civ 4 is too fast for my liking and so I use this mod....

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143815

...with that mod the game slows down and so my pleasure increases. I hope this will help to increase the longevity of the game for me, as Civ 3 had me captivated for a long time.

Hmmm, maybe. But if I remember correctly Civ 2 felt just like Civ 1 with some good new additions and expantions. However after 4 chapters maybe it is just wearing thin?... time will tell. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

I would doubt, even with the mod that I noted, that you will get that amount of pleasure from your game, depending for how long and often you play of course, and that, for me, is why I was hoping that the way that the game uses its mods would be more like Morrowind where many multiple mods could be both validated and used together with not much problem. I just don't see that happening just yet, or at all, with Civ4. If that doesn't happen I might have a big problem with combining mods which makes me think that the flexibility that the Civ 4 designers built into the game might not be that accomodating after all..

That was an extreem case to be sure but a game that lasts a few days at best just doesnt do it for me. A week or two would be good for me.

I wish I knew more about modding to really comment on it with any authority. But from what I remember before the game came out this thing was supposed to be almost completely moddable... almost to the point that it wouldnt be recognized as Civ at all? Maybe I exagerate but I remember this being discussed alot in Mag articles about the game. I hope what you describe abouve doesnt happen as I see this games greatest streangth to be the Mods forthcomming... I guess we will both have to wait and see. It would be welcome If anyone who knows modding could comment on where you see this game going..

I think that I might have confused you a little there. I meant the addons that are made for the game... Sacred Plus and Underworld.

Yeah i wasnt sure about mods for the game but havent I tried the expansions. I See 'em all the time just havent picked them up. There probably are some Mods for the game out there somewhere though; Its getting to the point to where every game has user created mods out there..