Not a bragging post

[noontide]

Just beat Deity again and I felt totally disappointed.

I saw one post here that says, which i think it's dead on point, that while AIs in civ4 still generally play to win, AIs in civ5 just hang around waiting for you to win. In my last game I was this puny little civ tucked away in a corner, while my neighbor commanded an army three times the size of mine and more advanced in technology. But I holed up and beelined stealthy bomber and the rest is history. Nevermind at least two civs had flight maybe 20 turns before me.

 

[Tiber4321]

Agree, 2 of my handfull of Deity wins have been cheesy. In other words, when the AIs had me beaten by many turns, they just gave up, and did nothing, i.e. never put spaceships together.

 

[Syailendra]

Yep, the ai even don't realize that the great general needs to get out from the capitol so the spaceparts can go in, WHICH IS NOT MAKES SENSE AT ALL!
They really needs to reconsider the 1upt for civilian units, its really not necessary.

 

[strijder20]

I saw one post here that says, which i think it's dead on point, that while AIs in civ4 still generally play to win, AIs in civ5 just hang around waiting for you to win.

Whut? I suppose you haven't played Civ4, as you are relying on another post to get an impression of it, and I can assure you: it's the other way round. I was disappointed at CivV, but one of the things I liked was how the AI there actually tried to win.

The only victory Civ4 AI can actively go for is culture, all the others it just accidentally stumbles upon (including space, so they'll be researching useless techs).

 

[noontide]

Whut? I suppose you haven't played Civ4, as you are relying on another post to get an impression of it, and I can assure you: it's the other way round. I was disappointed at CivV, but one of the things I liked was how the AI there actually tried to win.

The only victory Civ4 AI can actively go for is culture, all the others it just accidentally stumbles upon (including space, so they'll be researching useless techs).

I played much more Civ4 than Civ5, as a matter of fact i still go back to play Civ4 every now and then. Just prefer it over Civ5. Call it a personal preference.

 

[Tabarnak]

There is 2 options for hardest difficulty of a game for programmers:

1) Give the AI huge bonuses to overcome his stupidity because of lack of iterations
2) Make the AI more intelligent with less bonuses

Everyone should agree that games should work on the 2nd point because the 1st point is only relaying on luck. Sometimes you see the AI winning around turn 240-260 at standard speed and sometimes you can win after turn 300. The AI should win around turn 220 or less with better programmation because a human with such bonuses can do a lot better than the actual AI.

But 1) need only few ressources and time to achieve. 2) need larger ressources. Firaxis took the easiest path.

I'm not even talking about warfare here...

Well it's a solid reason to stick to multiplayer for competitive games.

 

[Camikaze]

Whut? I suppose you haven't played Civ4, as you are relying on another post to get an impression of it, and I can assure you: it's the other way round. I was disappointed at CivV, but one of the things I liked was how the AI there actually tried to win.

The only victory Civ4 AI can actively go for is culture, all the others it just accidentally stumbles upon (including space, so they'll be researching useless techs).

Yes, AFAIK the Civ4 AI either did not have, or had very minimal victory specific strategies, whereas Civ5 actually has code that specifically sets the AI on a track and moves them towards a victory condition. Perhaps the difference is that the Civ4 AI was more competent was that even without aiming for victory they were more likely to chance upon it, but it's certainly not true that the Civ5 AI doesn't play to win.

Also, Moderator Action: Moved to General Discussions, as this hasn't got much to do with strategy & tips.

 

[The_Quasar]

Being fair, it's a lot more difficult to produce AI for 1upt and hexs than it is for squares and Stacks of Doom.

Yes, there are lots of points, many concerned with civilian units, that I believe could be improved quite a bit (let's hope some have been in G&K)... but on the whole, I think they've made a reasonable START on it... time, I think, will bring improvements, and by experience will get more silly situations sorted.

 

[Hormagaunt]

Being fair, it's a lot more difficult to produce AI for 1upt and hexs than it is for squares and Stacks of Doom.

Yes, there are lots of points, many concerned with civilian units, that I believe could be improved quite a bit (let's hope some have been in G&K)... but on the whole, I think they've made a reasonable START on it... time, I think, will bring improvements, and by experience will get more silly situations sorted.

Actually, AI for hexes should be easier (fewer choices to tree through).

Civ5 does a terrible job at hex calculations, though. Want to see where nearby barbarian ships are? Just wave a 2-turn ship path over the area and watch for weird paths. It's working on information that it should NOT have available to it.

 

[Bandersnatching]

Actually, AI for hexes should be easier (fewer choices to tree through).

Civ5 does a terrible job at hex calculations, though. Want to see where nearby barbarian ships are? Just wave a 2-turn ship path over the area and watch for weird paths. It's working on information that it should NOT have available to it.

Same thing for barb camps. I always feel a little cheaty when I set my settler or worker on a path that intersects with one of those things - it's nice to know the info, but really, only Honor people should be able to get it without LOS. For me, it breaks immersion.

 

[noontide]

Being fair, it's a lot more difficult to produce AI for 1upt and hexs than it is for squares and Stacks of Doom.

Yes, there are lots of points, many concerned with civilian units, that I believe could be improved quite a bit (let's hope some have been in G&K)... but on the whole, I think they've made a reasonable START on it... time, I think, will bring improvements, and by experience will get more silly situations sorted.

also what i really liked about Civ4 is city specialization, great people farm, production city etc. That has been muted in Civ5 to an extent, with the specialist slots and all.

 

[gozpel]

Hexes absolutely makes it difficult for the AI, seeing them sending archers before swords.

 

[noontide]

Hexes absolutely makes it difficult for the AI, seeing them sending archers before swords.

I agree. I suppose hexanes make multiplayer game more fun, but how many of us play multiplayer games? Any war with AI that you are prepared for in Civ5 ends up being pretty much a meat grinder.

 

[Lyoncet]

Hexes absolutely makes it difficult for the AI, seeing them sending archers before swords.

Does the tile geometry actually have any bearing on that? Seems to me they'd do the same regardless of what shape the tiles are if their core tactical AI is as flawed as it is.

 

[Sleepless CiVr]

*laughing* the last time I tried Deity was back in Civ III after years of playing on Prince/Monarch. By the time I got my bearings together and scouted my surroundings, I was already half-dead, bloodied and left to die. I guess that scarred me from ever going back to Deity. I know that's off topic as the thread send to go towards the hex layout, but I felt like I needed to share

 

[Hormagaunt]

Hexes absolutely makes it difficult for the AI, seeing them sending archers before swords.

That's combat AI, not game geometry.

Working with hexes is exactly the same as working with squares if you disallow movement to the NE and SW squares.

 

[noontide]

*laughing* the last time I tried Deity was back in Civ III after years of playing on Prince/Monarch. By the time I got my bearings together and scouted my surroundings, I was already half-dead, bloodied and left to die. I guess that scarred me from ever going back to Deity. I know that's off topic as the thread send to go towards the hex layout, but I felt like I needed to share

I feel playing on Deity is in a large part about turtling it out, an AI will not attack you unprovoked, no matter how obvious it can crash you with a finger tip, unless (i) your border is right next to a belligerent civ like Rome or (ii) you leave a city bare with no garrisoned unit. As long as you put up some pretense of defense, and try not to anger a civ, they will be at war with each other and leave you to your own bidding. Forget about GL, you aren't gonna get it. Beeline PT and then crossbow, and next stop is stealthy bomber. Of course it won't work every time, but it will work enough time to make Deity feels like less of a challenge it initially seemed to be.

 

[dexters]

Just beat Deity again and I felt totally disappointed.

I saw one post here that says, which i think it's dead on point, that while AIs in civ4 still generally play to win, AIs in civ5 just hang around waiting for you to win. In my last game I was this puny little civ tucked away in a corner, while my neighbor commanded an army three times the size of mine and more advanced in technology. But I holed up and beelined stealthy bomber and the rest is history. Nevermind at least two civs had flight maybe 20 turns before me.

Congrats on the win, but difficulty in Civ5 varies dramatically on the same difficulty level depending on starting conditions.

I've been playing Pangea + (large map) for the last 20 or so games so I can tell starting conditions temper difficulty greatly. If you throw in custom maps types, and self selected Civs and other shenanigans, it's very difficult to quantify what you've said.

The AI not trying to win deal on diety seems especially strange, unless you're playing a unique game on a map that's absolutely advantageous to you or play a no trade conquer everyone game.

But my Pangea games beg to differ. Started next to a bunch of warmongers once and I was dead in the blink of an eye.

 

[AfterShafter]

I generally agree that the difficulty needs a ramp up. I was playing Deity before my over six month break from the game, and coming back to it now, I'm just about to hop to Immortal again on my 4th game. I'm sure it varies with settings, but at this point, huge/marathon/small continents isn't proving overwhelmingly tough - and Immortal left me walking funny for the better part of a year in both Civ III and IV.

My experience puts Civ V deity on part with Civ IV Immortal. Hope Firaxis bumps it up a notch so I can start hating how ridiculously tough it is again